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Havoc\Sakura on Ramjet Rifles - Final Word [message #128194] Tue, 21 December 2004 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma:
General (1 Star)
m1a1_abrams

OK, forgetting aircraft and artillery for a minute, since good arguments can be made for why both have sufficient unique advantages to remain perfectly usable even though they lack staying power against 1000 credit snipers... what about Buggies, Humvees and Transport Helicopters? Aren't they almost completely redundant units once the snipers arrive in the field, since in all circumstances barring lack of funds you would be better off using an APC? Isn't it that the Ramjet Rifle is solely responsible for them being redundant?


That's a matter of perspective. Once Ramjets are able to come into the field, everything short a Mammoth tank can come into the field as well. The redundancy of those units you've mentioned is quite universal when 1000 credits are given to each character. Does the Ramjet contribute to it? Of course, it does. But does that mean it is to blame for it? Absolutely not. If you apply some strategy to the situation mapwide, you would probably take the APC if you had the funds. If you didn't, you can do any number of things while you await funds. However, if the refinery is lost because of the incompetence of your team, that cannot possibly be the Ramjet's fault, can it?

Quote:

Orcas would not be able to stay in the field indefinitely without needing to return to the Helipad to rearm, so they wouldn't be the all powerful units that they are currently once the Hand of Nod has been destroyed. They would also not be able to destroy a typical armoured vehicle at full health, making them less of a threat one-on-one to units in the field, and more of a weapon designed to take out fixed targets in packs of more than one aircraft. This would not make aircraft drastically less useful as the ability to move fully in three dimensions is already a huge advantage over any other unit, and we already know that the skilled player can use this ability alone to great tactical effect.


Let me put a spin on this for you. You mentioned a pack of aircraft to do the work. Why not utilize THAT strategy now? While one Ramjet can certainly take down an aircraft, many aircraft going in many different directions would result in your strike going through and your sniper being left out in the field. Now, if you wanted to do some kind of one man assault on another base and you can afford an aircraft, but you know there are snipers, rethink the strategy and grab an APC or tank. Remember, it's not the sniper's fault you chose an aircraft.

Quote:

Rocket Soldiers for both sides, Stealth Tanks, Mammoth Tanks, Recon Bikes, MRLS and stationary SAM Sites plus the AGT would be the primary counter to aircraft. That's two vehicles for each side if Recon Bikes were to be reintroduced, and they should be. The homing rockets sported by these units would be the most useful in dealing with a fast moving target that can fly, since you wouldn't have to lead like you would with a conventional projectile. Of course, all weapons would still be able to damage aircraft if they hit, with varying degrees of effectiveness depending upon the warhead used and the armour type it's penetrating. Although it wasn't possible for non-rocket-armed units to hit aircraft in the RTS game, you might argue that they weren't incapable of hitting aircraft, it's just that in the simplified game engine they were assumed to be missing the target all the time (since it would be difficult to hit an aircraft with anything other than a homing rocket). This is a similar concept to the way that the APDS/HEAT shells fired by the tanks in the RTS games did minimal damage to infantry. A direct hit would kill instantly, but they were assumed to be shooting at soldiers in cover and thus were very rarely scoring a direct hit. This is actually stated by the developers in the .ini files of Tiberian Sun.


I understand that you're trying to posit alternatives, but IMO they are unneeded. If the game is to be like CNC TD, then everything would have to change to be like it. Including the impractical aspects that wouldn't make sense in an FPS. However, if we do what you're suggesting it isn't necessarily ringing true to any game but is rather a shade of grey between them, leaning toward CNC TD (something Aircraftkiller has yet to prove was the direct purpose of the game). I believe your idea would work for a mod, but Renegade is Renegade as it is, not CNC TD or a compromise between them.

Quote:

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, all weapons would have to be capable of causing damage to aircraft since they logically should be able to hit a stationary, grounded aircraft (and all units could damage grounded aircraft in C&C). I can't see of any way that you could limit their ability to hit aircraft to only those on the ground, given the limitations of the Renegade engine. Luckily, this actually helps to balance the game, as you pointed out with your misgivings about the idea that regular units shouldn't be able to hit aircraft at all.


Given the engine, I don't think this is possible anyway.

Quote:

Soldiers would be able to do some significant damage to armoured vehicles (even buildings) if they were able to keep their weapon trained on the target for the length of time that it would take to do so. However, if you were balancing the game after the RTS, infantry would have less health than they do currently, and would take more damage from certain weapons, so I can't see this being a problem in the long run. It works this way in RenAlert and tanks are by no means useless. You can't even repair your own vehicles without a Mechanic or a Service Depot and tanks still dominate the game for the most part.


I think you would find that if infantry could do the kind of damage to buildings as in CNC TD, the game would be far less enjoyable then it is now.


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