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Havoc\Sakura on Ramjet Rifles - Final Word [message #128074] Tue, 21 December 2004 04:30 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
m1a1_abrams is currently offline  m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
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Commander
Javaxcx

Frankly, what you and everyone else seem to be whining about with these sniper's is that they can in fact... shoot long distances. We're all agreed that the points given per sniper bullet are way to high. So that should be changed for the sake of balance. However, when it comes to the damage the Ramjet and the basic sniper rifle do against vehicles, all of you use your brains and stop thinking on an all-or-none basis.


OK, forgetting aircraft and artillery for a minute, since good arguments can be made for why both have sufficient unique advantages to remain perfectly usable even though they lack staying power against 1000 credit snipers... what about Buggies, Humvees and Transport Helicopters? Aren't they almost completely redundant units once the snipers arrive in the field, since in all circumstances barring lack of funds you would be better off using an APC? Isn't it that the Ramjet Rifle is solely responsible for them being redundant? I don't want any redundant units in the game and since there are better ways of balancing the flying maps, which I will come to in a second, the excessive damage that the sniper rifles do to light armour would have to go in order to achieve this aim.

Quote:

What I find entertaining is how much you nay-sayers are trying to balance the game to be exactly like the original Command and Conquer. All the while forgetting that just about everything you're striving for would result in a game far more unbalanced then you claim it to already be. Last time I checked, TD starred Orcas which didn't have machine guns. That's fine. But then again, the only infantry that could hit it were rocket soldiers, certainly not any vehicles that I can recall off hand. So what does that mean? When you lose the Hand of Nod, you lose your ability to destory Orcas? Or what about APCs? Couldn't a set of 5 or so GDI or Nod soldiers wipe out an APC in under 30 seconds? Doesn't that kind of firepower render base defences all but obsolete? The list goes on and on.


Orcas would have missiles that are primarily useful against tanks and buildings. Apaches would have a chaingun that is primarily useful against infantry. I don't see a problem with this myself. It works fine in RenAlert and the two sides have never been equivalent to begin with.

Orcas would not be able to stay in the field indefinitely without needing to return to the Helipad to rearm, so they wouldn't be the all powerful units that they are currently once the Hand of Nod has been destroyed. They would also not be able to destroy a typical armoured vehicle at full health, making them less of a threat one-on-one to units in the field, and more of a weapon designed to take out fixed targets in packs of more than one aircraft. This would not make aircraft drastically less useful as the ability to move fully in three dimensions is already a huge advantage over any other unit, and we already know that the skilled player can use this ability alone to great tactical effect.

Rocket Soldiers for both sides, Stealth Tanks, Mammoth Tanks, Recon Bikes, MRLS and stationary SAM Sites plus the AGT would be the primary counter to aircraft. That's two vehicles for each side if Recon Bikes were to be reintroduced, and they should be. The homing rockets sported by these units would be the most useful in dealing with a fast moving target that can fly, since you wouldn't have to lead like you would with a conventional projectile. Of course, all weapons would still be able to damage aircraft if they hit, with varying degrees of effectiveness depending upon the warhead used and the armour type it's penetrating. Although it wasn't possible for non-rocket-armed units to hit aircraft in the RTS game, you might argue that they weren't incapable of hitting aircraft, it's just that in the simplified game engine they were assumed to be missing the target all the time (since it would be difficult to hit an aircraft with anything other than a homing rocket). This is a similar concept to the way that the APDS/HEAT shells fired by the tanks in the RTS games did minimal damage to infantry. A direct hit would kill instantly, but they were assumed to be shooting at soldiers in cover and thus were very rarely scoring a direct hit. This is actually stated by the developers in the .ini files of Tiberian Sun.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, all weapons would have to be capable of causing damage to aircraft since they logically should be able to hit a stationary, grounded aircraft (and all units could damage grounded aircraft in C&C). I can't see of any way that you could limit their ability to hit aircraft to only those on the ground, given the limitations of the Renegade engine. Luckily, this actually helps to balance the game, as you pointed out with your misgivings about the idea that regular units shouldn't be able to hit aircraft at all.

Soldiers would be able to do some significant damage to armoured vehicles (even buildings) if they were able to keep their weapon trained on the target for the length of time that it would take to do so. However, if you were balancing the game after the RTS, infantry would have less health than they do currently, and would take more damage from certain weapons, so I can't see this being a problem in the long run. It works this way in RenAlert and tanks are by no means useless. You can't even repair your own vehicles without a Mechanic or a Service Depot and tanks still dominate the game for the most part.

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