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Damn that's a big protest. [message #111812]

Sun, 29 August 2004 20:23

Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?

Karma:

General (1 Star)

hydra1945

That still doesn't change the fact that the UN strips every one of its member states of their sovereignty. When a state joins the UN, it is basically agreeing to give up its sovereignty and answer to the almighty United Nations. It is no longer a sovereign nation if it has to adhere to some "international law" that rules over that nation. No member state of the UN is sovereign, so the United States did not violate Iraq's sovereignty when it ousted Saddam's regime.

The US did nothing illegal since the "international law" was meaningless to begin with.

The United Nations doesn't strip the Member States of their sovereignty, and here's why:

Quote:

sov·er·eign·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (svr-n-t, svrn-)
n. pl. sov·er·eign·ties
Supremacy of authority or rule as exercised by a sovereign or sovereign state.
Royal rank, authority, or power.
Complete independence and self-government.
A territory existing as an independent state.

Nothing in the Charter explicitly removes the sovereignty from any Member State. Each State is still legally (under that law) completely sovereign in that it still has supreme authority over itself and is legally independant. I mean, there is no "United Nations" country. However, upon agreeing to that Charter, it does mean that:
Chapter I of the Charter

"7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll."

Additionally, upon agreeing to that Charter, Member States do forfiet some international "authority" as nicely displayed by the rest of Article 2.

Are your international "liberties" legally limited by the Charter? Yup, definately. If you don't like it, leave. Your national soveriegnty is untouched unless passed in a Resolution under Chapter VII of that Charter.

Here is something I want to expand on:

"When a state joins the UN, it is basically agreeing to give up its sovereignty and answer to the almighty United Nations."

It doesn't give up it's sovereignty, but it does give the United Nations the authority to mediate, and if necessary, prosecute (under C.VII) illegal international actions.

Edit: There is a bit of fallacy in that post, so let me correct it before you reply:

I'll assume you'll point out that "international policy" is a sovereign decision. And it is. However, while that policy does exist legally within each nation, the actions taken as per said policy must not violate the United Nations charter. This means, that if you violate this policy, (like the US and CoW did), you violate it (as far as I've researched) through the United Nations but not of your own sovereign international policy. This means that they cannot be legally charged in their own country, but the U.N. does have the legitimate authority to mediate, or prosecute, based on that illegality.

So while this doesn't eliminate the sovereignty of a nation, it does authorize the United Nations to legally act against a nation who does violate the Charter (and/or resolutions).

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[Message index]

		Damn that's a big protest. By: SuperFlyingEngi on Sun, 29 August 2004 11:01
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 11:07
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Crimson on Sun, 29 August 2004 12:56
		Damn that's a big protest. By: cokemaster on Sun, 29 August 2004 13:25
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 13:31
		Damn that's a big protest. By: cokemaster on Sun, 29 August 2004 13:37
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Vitaminous on Sun, 29 August 2004 13:47
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 14:19
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Fabian on Sun, 29 August 2004 14:21
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 14:28
		Damn that's a big protest. By: setstyle on Sun, 29 August 2004 14:31
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Fabian on Sun, 29 August 2004 14:33
		Damn that's a big protest. By: cokemaster on Sun, 29 August 2004 14:35
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 16:51
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 17:02
		Damn that's a big protest. By: SuperFlyingEngi on Sun, 29 August 2004 17:40
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 17:51
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Javaxcx on Sun, 29 August 2004 17:55
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 17:57
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Fabian on Sun, 29 August 2004 18:08
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 18:15
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Fabian on Sun, 29 August 2004 18:21
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 18:27
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Fabian on Sun, 29 August 2004 18:32
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Javaxcx on Sun, 29 August 2004 18:35
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 18:44
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Fabian on Sun, 29 August 2004 19:39
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Sun, 29 August 2004 19:41
		Damn that's a big protest. By: cokemaster on Sun, 29 August 2004 19:42
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Javaxcx on Sun, 29 August 2004 19:50
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Hydra on Sun, 29 August 2004 19:53
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Javaxcx on Sun, 29 August 2004 19:53
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Javaxcx on Sun, 29 August 2004 19:56
		Damn that's a big protest. By: DaveGMM on Sun, 29 August 2004 19:58
		Damn that's a big protest. By: warranto on Sun, 29 August 2004 20:06
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Hydra on Sun, 29 August 2004 20:08
		Damn that's a big protest. By: DaveGMM on Sun, 29 August 2004 20:09
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Javaxcx on Sun, 29 August 2004 20:23
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Fabian on Sun, 29 August 2004 21:19
		Damn that's a big protest. By: NHJ BV on Mon, 30 August 2004 01:43
		Damn that's a big protest. By: ViperFUD on Mon, 30 August 2004 05:13
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Fabian on Mon, 30 August 2004 07:09
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Crimson on Mon, 30 August 2004 09:37
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Vitaminous on Mon, 30 August 2004 10:06
		Damn that's a big protest. By: warranto on Mon, 30 August 2004 11:05
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Fabian on Mon, 30 August 2004 11:53
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Mon, 30 August 2004 14:22
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Vitaminous on Mon, 30 August 2004 14:23
		Damn that's a big protest. By: warranto on Mon, 30 August 2004 14:40
		Damn that's a big protest. By: DaveGMM on Mon, 30 August 2004 16:25
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Crimson on Mon, 30 August 2004 20:45
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Fabian on Mon, 30 August 2004 20:56
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Vitaminous on Mon, 30 August 2004 20:58
		Damn that's a big protest. By: Nodbugger on Tue, 31 August 2004 04:03

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