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Operation: Blunderbuss [message #98778] Fri, 02 July 2004 03:03 Go to next message
Javaxcx
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It's the first day of his tribunal; the day of his charges being dictated, and he's not given the right to consultation? It is irrelevant as to who the defendant is, those rights apply to every person in a court of law.

The Iraqi Constitution, taken from FOXnews:

Chapter 2, Article 12:

"All Iraqis are equal in their rights without regard to gender, sect, opinion, belief, nationality, religion, or origin, and they are equal before the law. Discrimination against an Iraqi citizen on the basis of his gender, nationality, religion, or origin is prohibited. Everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the security of his person. No one may be deprived of his life or liberty, except in accordance with legal procedures. All are equal before the courts."

Need a I remind you, this also applies to Saddam, regardless of his obvious guilt.

Chapter 2, Article 15 (E):

"(E) The accused is innocent until proven guilty pursuant to law, and he likewise has the right to engage independent and competent counsel, to remain silent in response to questions addressed to him with no compulsion to testify for any reason, to participate in preparing his defense, and to summon and examine witnesses or to ask the judge to do so. At the time a person is arrested, he must be notified of these rights."

Yesterday in an interview with Tim Hughes, he said (paraphrased) that they were not allowed to be with Saddam at the tribunal. You know, denied?
I suggest this be read furthermore.

The coalition has the gaul to call this a fair trail, however indirect they claim to be in the "legal/physical" custody of Saddam? I think there is a severe case of the pot calling the kettle black here.



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Operation: Blunderbuss [message #98784] Fri, 02 July 2004 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
drunkill is currently offline  drunkill
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hmm yeah, kinda sucks for him. and as well, bush is keeping him untill next year, its ment to be a handover to the iraqi govenment, ofr everyhting, yet, they keep saddam till next year. when they said everything will be theres agin on the turnover date.
oh well.


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Re: Operation: Blunderbuss [message #98811] Fri, 02 July 2004 06:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hydra is currently offline  Hydra
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Javaxcx

and he likewise has the right to engage independent and competent counsel

All that means is the man has the right to a lawyer. It does not say that lawyer must be present at the trial, just that he can consult a lawyer if he decides.

Pot calling the kettle black? If you want pot calling the kettle black, Saddam Hussein is complaining of getting an unfair trial when you know not a single fair trial was conducted in Iraq during his entire reign.


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Re: Operation: Blunderbuss [message #98818] Fri, 02 July 2004 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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hydra1945

Javaxcx

and he likewise has the right to engage independent and competent counsel

All that means is the man has the right to a lawyer. It does not say that lawyer must be present at the trial, just that he can consult a lawyer if he decides.

Pot calling the kettle black? If you want pot calling the kettle black, Saddam Hussein is complaining of getting an unfair trial when you know not a single fair trial was conducted in Iraq during his entire reign.


That exerpt means that he has the right to engage in counsel with his lawyers. That would especially be valid when he's asked to sign anything. Furthermore, I don't question Saddam's guilt, but when he is told he will get a fair trial, (assumedly the exact same kind of fair trial as any felon) every aspect of that trial must be fair otherwise you have enough pot'n'kettle going around for all.

If they didn't want something like this to happen, they shouldn't have given him the opportunity to be PUT on trial.



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Operation: Blunderbuss [message #98821] Fri, 02 July 2004 07:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K9Trooper is currently offline  K9Trooper
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drunkill

hmm yeah, kinda sucks for him. and as well, bush is keeping him untill next year, its ment to be a handover to the iraqi govenment, ofr everyhting, yet, they keep saddam till next year. when they said everything will be theres agin on the turnover date.
oh well.


Reason for the US to keep him in a prison run by the US... Security.

The Iraqis lack the forces to detain him. We are his guards and that is it. He is not being tried by the US. Another thing... It is an Iraqi court not a US court, so take your complaints to Iraq not the US on the lawyers not being there.


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Operation: Blunderbuss [message #98822] Fri, 02 July 2004 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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Well, remember, Saddam's wife hired a lawyer already. He just wasn't allowed to be present for reasons that have not been disclosed.


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Operation: Blunderbuss [message #98825] Fri, 02 July 2004 07:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KIRBY098 is currently offline  KIRBY098
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Java points out a valid point.

You cannot destroy the existing order, install a representative government based on Democratic ideals, and then in the next breath, DENY BASIC LEGAL REPRESENTATION PROVIDED FOR IN THE CONSTITUTION.

There is something inherently wrong with that, no matter how bad the person is.


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Operation: Blunderbuss [message #98830] Fri, 02 July 2004 07:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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That was essentially a major component to Saddam's counter arguement to his trial. He's able to hide behind it because it's valid. It just goes to show that evil people can still be protected by law. :\


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Operation: Blunderbuss [message #98876] Fri, 02 July 2004 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warranto is currently offline  warranto
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KIRBY098

Java points out a valid point.

You cannot destroy the existing order, install a representative government based on Democratic ideals, and then in the next breath, DENY BASIC LEGAL REPRESENTATION PROVIDED FOR IN THE CONSTITUTION.

There is something inherently wrong with that, no matter how bad the person is.


Which constitution?
Operation: Blunderbuss [message #98880] Fri, 02 July 2004 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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The new Iraqi one. Check that link in my first post for the link to the outline of it.


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Operation: Blunderbuss [message #98969] Fri, 02 July 2004 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warranto is currently offline  warranto
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ok then. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a referance to the American Constitution.

Edit: I took a second look at this and noticed something. When you state that they have the ability to seek council, that's only when the person is arrested. However, as far as I saw, there was nothing in the constitution stating anything about a lawyer needing to be present. Not saying it's not part of judicial law, it's just not mentioned in the constitution.
Operation: Blunderbuss [message #100003] Tue, 06 July 2004 21:03 Go to previous message
Riftgarde
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They should have lifted the block of foam ever so slightly and rolled a grenade in the hole.
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