| Reason does not exist! [message #89830] |
Tue, 25 May 2004 00:17  |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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I'm bored, so I thought I'd start an arguement based on something Hume stated.
Note: this is NOT verbatim, but rather the arguement as a whole. I have already managed to find a way to defeat this arguement, but I'll leave this for a while to see what others have to say.
The arguement:
HUME: There is no such thing as Reason. To argue that reason exists, you must beg the question. This can not be done as it nullifies the arguement used, therefor it is impossible to prove that reason exists.
Definition to help you out: "Begging the question"- A philosophy term that simply means you are using the subject that the arguement is, well argueing to answer the question. Example: "Does love exist?" "Yes it exists because I love my parents." All this does is throw the arguement into a loop.
Edit: Javaxcx, shut up...
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| Reason does not exist! [message #89865] |
Tue, 25 May 2004 08:15  |
Phoenix - Aeon
Messages: 221
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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Reasoning is an extension of logical thought, it comes to a conclusion whwere there is insufficient data for a logical conclusion. Therefore a reasoned arguement does not need a complete arguement and you can "beg the question" as part as you do not need all the relevant data.
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| Reason does not exist! [message #89903] |
Tue, 25 May 2004 09:54 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Close, very close Aeon. Keep one thing in mind though, reason is an integral part of every arguement, complete or not. It's the most basic form of logic and data. Even though your on the right track, you haven't been able to give a sufficiant excuse as to why begging the question is allowed.
The original arguement was Reason vs. no Reason, in where reason won, only because to argue the no reason side, you had to use reason, thereby defeating your own position. Hume looked further and discovered his side of the story showing that reason could not exist, because if philosophers had bothered to check, they would hve seen that it begs the question.
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| Re: Reason does not exist! [message #90374] |
Thu, 27 May 2004 17:29 |
Carl
Messages: 165
Registered: March 2003
Location: Washington, US
Karma: 0
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| warranto |
IMM BORED SO I THOUGHT ID START AN ARGUAMANT BAESD ON SOMETHNG HUME STAETD!1!! WTF
NOTE THIS IS NOT VERBATIM BUT RATHER DA ARGUAM3NT AS A WHOLE!!11!!! WTF I HAEV ALREADY MANAEGD 2 FIND A WAY 2 DEFEAT THIS ARGU3M3NT BUT IL LEAEV THIS FOR A WHIEL 2 SE WUT OTH3RS HAEV 2 DA1111!! WTF LOL ARGUEM3NT
HUME THEIR IS NO SUCH THNG AS RAASON!11!11! LOL 2 ARGUE TAHT R3ASON 3XISTS U MUST BG TEH QUASTION!!!11!1 OMG LOL THIS CAN NOT B DONA AS IT NULIFEIS TEH ARGUEMENT USED THEYRE IT IS IMPOSIBLE 2 PROV3 TAHT R3ASON EXISTS
DEFINITION11!111!1 LOL 2 HELP U OUT BGNG TEH QUESTION- A PHILOSOPHY T3RM TAHT SIMPLY MEANS U R USNG DA SUBJECT TAHT TEH ARGUEMENT IS WAL ARGU3NG 2 ANSWER TEH QU3STION11!11! WTF EXMPLA DO3S LOVA EXIST?!!!!?!? OMG Y3S IT AXISTS B/C I LOVE MAH PAERNTS1!!!1!1! OMG LOL AL THIS DOAS IS THROW TEH ARGUEMENT IN2 A LOP
EDIT1!!!1 JAVAXCX SHUT UP.!!!!11!!1!1!! OMG LOL
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O_O....
y0
http://www.dead6.net
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| Reason does not exist! [message #90375] |
Thu, 27 May 2004 17:32 |
Carl
Messages: 165
Registered: March 2003
Location: Washington, US
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anyways. to reply. there is no reason, where reason is forced away. IE reason is created by man. where man sees need for reason, there is reason. where man sees no need for reason, reason does not exist.
y0
http://www.dead6.net
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| Reason does not exist! [message #90417] |
Thu, 27 May 2004 22:13 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Anyways, as a seperate post...
The problem with Hume stating that reason does not exist (taking the assumption that he's right) is that ANYTHING that uses reason to come to a conclusion is FALSE. Which means, as long as you can say "The Sun is Florecent Green on any clear day" without basing that thought on reason, it is true. However, with that "Truth" established, it would be futile to try and argue against it, as you would need to rely on reason to do so. Basically put, since what Hume discovered about reason is true, nothing in the world can exist, as reason is needed to back it up. Even the basic argument "Why?"-"Because" is still an answer based around reason.
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| Reason does not exist! [message #90437] |
Fri, 28 May 2004 01:42 |
djlaptop
Messages: 160
Registered: February 2003
Location: Hollywood, CA, USA
Karma: 0
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In any given system, there always exists: cause and effect.
Reason = cause.
I've had two Long Island iced teas tonight so if this makes no sense, I'll know about it in the morning. Until then I will argue it to the death.
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| Reason does not exist! [message #94572] |
Fri, 11 June 2004 14:47 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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*bump*
Seeing as this got burried, I thought I'd finally give the answer!
Phoenix - Aeon, remeber how I said you were close? While this is how close you were.
warranto's Rule of Arguements:
In order for an arguement to take place, it MUST fulfill the following requirement. The arguement must be made up of proofs of lesser strength. when arguing what causes rain, you argue about the air becoming saturated, or humidity levels (proofs of lesser strength). You don't bring up points such as the fact that Pluto orbits the sun (proofs of greater strength). Seeing as all the proofs are based on facts of reason, it must be concluded that reason is the basis of everything. The lowest form of a proof possible, so to speak. With this in mind, when arguing whether or not reason exists, you are arguing the lowest form of a proof. It is impossible to go any lower (a requirement for arguements), therefor negating the arguement as it is impossible to argue by means of a proof of lower strength. Hence an invalid question to argue in the first place. However, if you feel the need to break the rules and argue it, all rules governing the arguement must be disallowed as well. This includes the rule of "never beg the question".
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| Re: Reason does not exist! [message #94659] |
Fri, 11 June 2004 18:04 |
tarsonis9
Messages: 129
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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| Rene Descartes |
I think not!
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*POOF!*
Hey, where'd he go!?
"State Tower, Warrior 8-4-0-5-4, you have a herd of cattle on two-seven left, please advise..."
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| Reason does not exist! [message #95199] |
Mon, 14 June 2004 06:14 |
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DragonFg
Messages: 187
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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So what you're saying is you think reasoning doesn't exist, but you can't prove your point without reasoning. Reminds me of a dog chasing its tail.
"Behind every great man is a woman, and behind her is his wife."
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| Reason does not exist! [message #95327] |
Mon, 14 June 2004 16:35 |
tarsonis9
Messages: 129
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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I find it odd that no one's gotten my joke yet...warranto, I'd expect you to get this, at least.
"State Tower, Warrior 8-4-0-5-4, you have a herd of cattle on two-seven left, please advise..."
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