| Med tank vs Artillery Fraps [message #91925] |
Wed, 02 June 2004 17:05   |
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Deathgod
Messages: 504
Registered: February 2003
Location: The House of B
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| spoonyrat |
| Deathgod |
I don't need convincing, I know what an arty can do.
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No, you don't. No one in FUD does, which is why whenever you get raped by a skilled arty player, you play the "OGM U CAN HOLD A MOUSE BUTTON DOWN ALL GAME U R SO 1337!!!?!?!?!" card. No-one who understands tankskill says that.
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This literally made me laugh out loud. I don't think we've ever "played that card" when we get owned by arties, because we DON'T get owned by them. About the only time I fear an arty is if I am an infantry unit and am out of my weapons range but inside an arty's range, and even then I'm not horribly worried. I understand tank skill perfectly fine, and I also understand that against a driver of equal skill on equal ground an arty will never win against a med tank. Both vehicles have the same rate of fire, and it takes 9 shots for an arty to kill a med but only 7 for the med to kill the arty. As I have stated many times before, unless the arty has a range/cover advantage or engineer support, it will lose.
WOL: priestofb
FUD Online for Renegade character details
The preceding post was sponsored by FUD.
We are the way, you are in the way.â„¢
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| Med tank vs Artillery Fraps [message #91973] |
Wed, 02 June 2004 18:59 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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| spoonyrat |
using terrain to your advantage (which isn't allowed according to you)
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by all means, using terrain to your advantage is allowed. but when one vehicle wins because of a terrain advantage, then you're not demonstrating VEHICLE superiority. you're demonstrating TACTICAL superiority.
in a fair 1v1 fight, a med tank WILL WIN against an arty. the only way the artillery will win is if it has a terrain advantage (unless the med driver totally sucks, of course, in which case the arty can win on even terrain).
in a real game, nothing's wrong with using terrain to your advantage. when you're trying to decide who will win in a 1v1 arty/med fight, though, you CANNOT give one vehicle a terrain advantage, because that will skew your results.
with a big enough terrain advantage, a light tank can kill a mammoth. but no intelligent person would claim that means a light tank is better 1v1 than a mammy. this arty/med discussion is the same idea...
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| Med tank vs Artillery Fraps [message #91985] |
Wed, 02 June 2004 19:15 |
spoonyrat
Messages: 406
Registered: December 2003
Location: England
Karma: 0
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| mahkra |
by all means, using terrain to your advantage is allowed. but when one vehicle wins because of a terrain advantage, then you're not demonstrating VEHICLE superiority. you're demonstrating TACTICAL superiority.
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Not the case. Of all the vehicles, Artillery can make best use of cover since its turret is so close to the edge of the tank.
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| Med tank vs Artillery Fraps [message #92041] |
Wed, 02 June 2004 21:56 |
spoonyrat
Messages: 406
Registered: December 2003
Location: England
Karma: 0
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You're talking as if every engagement is fought on a perfectly flat gaming field and firing commences mutually.
By the same argument you could say a Medium Tank will beat an Apache every time, since it wins in terms of power vs armour.
What you don't understand is that Renegade does not work that way at all.
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| Med tank vs Artillery Fraps [message #92042] |
Wed, 02 June 2004 22:03 |
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PointlessAmbler
Messages: 318
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Obviously, on hilly ground, the Artillery could be driven so that it can get shots off on a Medium Tank when the Medium Tank can't retaliate. But conversely, a Medium Tank could sneak up on an Artillery and do the same thing. Basically, it's whoever's facing uphill has the advantage (or, if they're both facing uphill, whoever has more of their tank exposed to the enemy).
I didn't say there weren't conditions. The Medium Tank beats the Artillery if it can close it fast enough, or the Artillery (stupidly) starts taking shots at the Medium Tank when it is inside the Medium Tank's range. Artillery wins when it can shoot at the Medium Tank at a distance. On hilly ground, whoever can utilize it better wins. I fail to see the problem here. What part of this isn't obvious?
Everyone that posts here has surely beaten superior vehicles with inferior ones, because they utilized their terrain to make them more effective. Who hasn't killed a Medium Tank with a Light Tank, a Mammoth Tank with a Flame Tank, or even a Humvee with a Chem Trooper? This doesn't involve unit balance so much as it involves tactics. Better tacticians win.
I'm not trying to argue a side here -- I'm saying the whole "ARTY SI BETTAR THEN THE MADD TANK" or vice versa is retarded. They both have their pros and cons. In a stand-up fight, the Medium Tank wins. It is the objective of the Artillery to make it as little of a stand-up fight as possible. Hell, it's possible to beat a Mammoth Tank with a Nod Buggy, although the driver of the Mammoth Tank would probably be comatose before that happens.
Red Alert: A Path Beyond Manual Writer
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| Med tank vs Artillery Fraps [message #92083] |
Thu, 03 June 2004 04:33 |
Phoenix - Aeon
Messages: 221
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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I can see where you're both coming from and have indeed gained a lot more respect for FUD in this thread, however I could be conbstrued that your advice virtually writes off the arty to some newbies. Why not just say "in the hands of a skilled player the arty can be deadly, but it takes time to gain that skill". I know I can take virtually anything down in an arty, but I still prefer a med. On the subject of Lights vs. mammys I don't think I've ever lost to a mammy in a light, but then again that's just because I push the speed advantage, point being, use your advantage and you'll always win, let go off that advantage and you're getting owned.
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| Med tank vs Artillery Fraps [message #92095] |
Thu, 03 June 2004 05:47 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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| Phoenix - Aeon |
I can see where you're both coming from and have indeed gained a lot more respect for FUD in this thread, however I could be conbstrued that your advice virtually writes off the arty to some newbies. Why not just say "in the hands of a skilled player the arty can be deadly, but it takes time to gain that skill".
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in all fairness though, it's not really all that irresponsible to steer newbies away from the mobile artillery, because the arty is too fragile for newbies to survive long enough to shoot anything. (we've all seen it happen a hundred times, i'm sure -- newbie buys an arty, drives it out into the field to try to fight, can't even turn the turret because the camera isn't locked to turret, and blows up without firing a shot.) they should be using a light tank for tank vs tank combat, and they should only use an artillery in situations where other people are drawing fire away from them.
(if we steer them away from arties, though, it doesn't mean they'll never use an arty. it just means that by the time they try to use an arty for tank combat, they'll actually know how to fight because of those skills they developed in a light tank.)
if someone wanted to learn how to ride a motorcycle, you'd probably tell them to start by learning to ride a bike. i think this is kinda the same idea: an arty might be more destructive, but it's not a good vehicle to learn in. newbies should learn in something safer and then branch out to different vehicles later.
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| Med tank vs Artillery Fraps [message #92405] |
Fri, 04 June 2004 01:52 |
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| Nodbugger |
Being retarded doesn't help much either,
I have destroyed mammoth tanks with the pistol It took about 15 min. But I did kill it.
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big lie... lmao
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| Med tank vs Artillery Fraps [message #92800] |
Sat, 05 June 2004 13:32 |
spoonyrat
Messages: 406
Registered: December 2003
Location: England
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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| Boxcarman |
Remek, talk to me...!!
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I don't think Remek's ever been inclined to post here. Reach him at CW, non00bs.net or renstation.net
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