Home » Tiberian Technologies / Blackhand Studios » Other Products » Unit Balance
| Unit Balance [message #88078] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 06:42   |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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On that note, why argue about changes if neither you or your server is going to be playing them?
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| Unit Balance [message #88100] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 08:35 |
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Deathgod
Messages: 504
Registered: February 2003
Location: The House of B
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Jorge |
| Aircraftkiller |
The GDI would have the disadvantage. Once the AGT is gone, the entire defense system of the GDI is gone except for Guard Towers, which wouldn't shoot at aircraft.
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On a side Note, another disadvantage for the GDI is if their power goes off-line then their AGT goes offline, which means their entire defense system goes down. But if the Nod powerplant goes off-line, their SAM's still function thus they are still protected against Aircraft with low power while the GDI are not if they lose their Power Plant.
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So one side gets good air defense and the other doesn't? I also note you say SAM sites plural, meaning they get more than one, while GDI's AGT can only fire at one target at a time. Do the SAMs all fire at the same target or can they fire independently? Do they do the same damage as the AGT?
Crimson, I can also honestly say I really have no desire to try out the new method. You guys can do whatever you want, and I hope you have an excellent time doing it, but I happen to like this game just the way it is. I think if it was as misbalanced as some people here claim it is, I wouldn't have played it for nearly as long as we don't play broken games. That's why FUD doesn't play CS or Generals, for example. The only things we'd like to see changed are bugs like the ob charge, AGT shooting through itself to hit ground units, stuff like that. I don't want any changes made to the maps themselves; we have no problems with B2B anymore, and we think walljumping is a feature not a bug so we defend accordingly.
WOL: priestofb
FUD Online for Renegade character details
The preceding post was sponsored by FUD.
We are the way, you are in the way.â„¢
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| Unit Balance [message #88117] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 10:15 |
sfr3f
Messages: 33
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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It will effect a good portion of players: the portion that wants to play on servers that use the alternate rules.
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| Unit Balance [message #88202] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 18:19 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Aircraftkiller, don't lock a thread because you diagree with counterarguments to your own. It's pathetic, and you know it.
| Aircraftkiller |
So in some strange way, you're actually agreeing with removing the n00b cannon damage?
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I can't understand how someone like yourself is unable see outrageous sarcasm when he reads it.
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Okay, so once again, if the game came with a unit that won the game five seconds after being purchased, that wouldn't be unbalanced... It came with the game, after all.
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For starts, this unit doesn't exist. And no, don't whine and say that the snipers do this, because they don't.
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They weren't made to destroy vehicles, it's a bug in the armor.ini.
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Obviously not, otherwise this would've been addressed before the flying vehicle patch was released.
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If the GDI destroys the SAM Sites, they earn the right to fly unchallenged by base defenses. Not ground units. They aren't easy to destroy, either, since they pop up when firing, and hide underground when not firing.
The GDI would have the disadvantage. Once the AGT is gone, the entire defense system of the GDI is gone except for Guard Towers, which wouldn't shoot at aircraft.
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Are you serious? LOL. I hope not. If you think this is balances the game, then I desperately hope you review on what gameplay is like online.
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Doesn't matter what you were talking about, you never made that clear until now.
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WTF does this mean?
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Snipers aren't getting left alone, get used to it.
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You can do whatever you want with this mod, but the public will ultimately choose to play whether to play it with these unnessesary changes.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Unit Balance [message #88209] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 18:25 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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I locked the thread because it was getting redundant and useless. You're going to keep arguing in circles to evade the points, so there's no reason to leave it open for further discussion on things we already talked about on the first page.
It's not always obvious when sarcasm is used. I can't hear what you're trying to write, so your lack of voice isn't giving off any sort of sarcastic tone.
You didn't say why the SAM Site\Obelisk proposal, like C&C, is unbalanced. It works for both teams, there are advantages and disadvantages... That's what is called "balance." If both teams are almost identical in structures, units, etc... Then why bother playing, just make it into a large deathmatch.
There were no balance changes made to Renegade, so take the "obvious" comments and shut up... You have had nothing to do with the dev team or what they intended. There was no time or ability to allocate resources to balancing after the initial beta test.
It's not a "mod," it's an addition to the game, and it's still getting changed whether or not you agree with it. This is staying locked.
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| Unit Balance [message #88220] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 19:24 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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Just for the record, I don't personally see much of a need to change anything except lower the sniper damage against light armor just a tad.
I'm the bawss.
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| Unit Balance [message #88251] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 21:27 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Aircraftkiller |
I locked the thread because it was getting redundant and useless. You're going to keep arguing in circles to evade the points, so there's no reason to leave it open for further discussion on things we already talked about on the first page.
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Until you realize that your hypothetical snipers vs. aircraft situations don't constitute changing their damages and making up imaginary uber units doesn't do anything, this argument isn't over. Yes, I know I've used hypothetical situations, but I've used them only to counter those same situations that you and others have presented.
I however, have given you logistical proof why they should be left the way they are:
Snipers heavily damage lightly armoured vehicles <-- Fact.
Aircraft are lightly armoured vehicles <-- Fact.
Snipers therefore heavily damage aircraft.
What's yours? "GR I h8 SNIPRZ KILIN AIRKRFT WEN I LEVE BASE RITE AWY!!!!11111"
And of course: "SNIPRZ CUDNT HIT AIRKFT IN C&C"
This TOO has been addressed: You cannot pick and choose which concessions YOU want to make (And I think your blantant locking of this thread TWICE has proven this). There are so many aspects of Renegade that aren't/weren't in C&C that is isn't practical to try and choose ones that will make your flying experience nicer. You CANNOT pick and choose which concessions to make, because you're NOT remaking C&C in FPS, you're manipulating Renegade into another "bastardized" form. Thats why I said for you to eliminate all that crap from the engineers. Or rather, why not eliminate the pistol from the GDI engineer, and give the Nod technician a crap ass pistol that couldn't kill a crippled monkey tied to a tree. Thats not fun at all. Renegade was made to have FUN with, not to have retarded concessions made to eliminate that.
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It's not always obvious when sarcasm is used. I can't hear what you're trying to write, so your lack of voice isn't giving off any sort of sarcastic tone.
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Oh please, don't pull the "UM I CANT HERE U SO YA!" because it doesn't work. The context is purely sarcastic.
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You didn't say why the SAM Site\Obelisk proposal, like C&C, is unbalanced. It works for both teams, there are advantages and disadvantages... That's what is called "balance." If both teams are almost identical in structures, units, etc... Then why bother playing, just make it into a large deathmatch.
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These 'balances' are so bipolar that you'd freaking plotz. Look at the other posts for GOOD reasons why.
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There were no balance changes made to Renegade,
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Golly Batman! You're right! That must be because they didn't feel the need to! Also, don't pull the "there is no time or resources" rhetoric. It's old, and a weak argument. They was plenty of time, and it doesn't take any substantial resources to click change the munitions damage.
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It's not a "mod," it's an addition to the game, and it's still getting changed whether or not you agree with it.
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It's not an addition to the game. You've said this yourself thats not taking the place of the official maps. It's a series of levels redesigned to your 'perverted' concessions. It's a MOD (you know, MODIFICATION).
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This is staying locked.
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Obviously not.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Unit Balance [message #88256] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 21:48 |
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Deathgod
Messages: 504
Registered: February 2003
Location: The House of B
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| flyingfox |
| Deathgod |
| flyingfox |
On that note, why argue about changes if neither you or your server is going to be playing them?
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I already explained that above, look up a few pages.
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Oh yeah. Well, you said it'll affect people who aren't aware of the changes when they go from server to server. When they download these levels, there'll be readmes coming with them (I assume) with all the changes & fixes. Unless they choose not to read the readmes 
Off-topic: It would be good if BHS released fixed WW maps without balance changes, just changes like the obelisk charge up etc, to be used server-side so that everyone who joined a server would be playing fixed levels without needing to dl anything. Also: maybe some C&C music to accompany them?
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Think of the average player of this game... they're going to be confused when they play 2 or sometimes 3 different versions of the same map, all with different features. Always assume the end user of a product is an idiot until such time that their intelligence is proven.
I would agree that it would be nice to see a fixed WW map release, of course without any cosmetic or balance changes but with the ob charge and the radio icons added in. Music is unnecessary, though. If you want to listen to C&C music, run Winamp in the background. The performance hit from that is nothing at all, plus you can listen to whatever you want. Nothing beats listening to classical music when you go on a shotgun killing spree.
WOL: priestofb
FUD Online for Renegade character details
The preceding post was sponsored by FUD.
We are the way, you are in the way.â„¢
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| Unit Balance [message #88294] |
Tue, 18 May 2004 01:19 |
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Rex
Messages: 107
Registered: March 2003
Location: Netherlands
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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Ok... Lets see... There are 2 groups.... One that thinks snipers are overpowered and the other group thinks that they are not.
I personally think that if you know how to fly a damn orca that you wont die that fast. I can easily kill a few snipers that are on the center of the map (in wallsflying) They wont even see me coming till its too late 4 them....
Anyway, I can understand that most people hate flying with the orca because they get killed so fast.
I love to snipe and I would hate it to become "weaker", but if its for the greater good then ok.... I think it should take a few more shots to take out an orca...... BUT... I don't think you should mess with the other vehicles... I want to still be able to shoot at light tanks or flames which gives me a few points while there is noone else I can shoot at...
Just my thoughts...
Rex
You can rent this signature for 2 euros/month.
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