Home » Tiberian Technologies / Blackhand Studios » Other Products » Unit Balance
| Unit Balance [message #85238] |
Mon, 03 May 2004 13:22   |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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If there are three snipers on a team, and you enter their base with one airbourne unit, with no support, like what you're SUGGESTING, then you do deserve what happens.
I would bet that if you attack with more than 2 or 3 aurbourne units, those snipers would either be killed, or wouldn't be able to stop at least one of those airbourne units from taking cover behind a structure and repairing.
Or if you have support! Those snipers might take a few pot shots, but I can guaruntee you if the sniper had any sense, they'd want to take out that hotwire or technician that is trying to sneak in over your airbourne unit.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Unit Balance [message #85239] |
Mon, 03 May 2004 13:24 |
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Rex
Messages: 107
Registered: March 2003
Location: Netherlands
Karma: 0
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| Blazer |
My personal opinion on snipers versus vehicles...
In short, I think the deadeye/blackhand sniper should do very little or no damage to amored vehicles, and the Ramjet should do a little damage to lightly armored vehicles (aircraft, mrls, mobart), but very little damage to heavily armed vehicles like tanks.
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^^ I think exactly the same.
And I would like to add my own extra idea: Havocs shouldnt get 8 points for shooting an harvester. It should be more like 4 points or even less.
You can rent this signature for 2 euros/month.
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| Unit Balance [message #85301] |
Mon, 03 May 2004 16:24 |
icedog90
Messages: 3483
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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I agree with Blazer much more.
Also, you don't get raped by Ramjets just by flying in their nest, they come to the cliff on Walls_Flying and harrass the base and demolish any air unit that is bought. This doesn't really happen too often, but it does happen sometimes, which gets really annoying. Walls_Flying is actually an easy level to use air units. There aren't really any places for snipers to hide except under the cliff in the middle, which rarely happens also. City_Flying is the worse problem. I will never buy an air unit on that level unless I know that the Hand of Nod is gone, or that there are supportive snipers or vehicles out there to protect me.
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| Unit Balance [message #85322] |
Mon, 03 May 2004 18:10 |
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m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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| Javaxcx |
If there are three snipers on a team, and you enter their base with one airbourne unit, with no support, like what you're SUGGESTING, then you do deserve what happens.
I would bet that if you attack with more than 2 or 3 aurbourne units, those snipers would either be killed, or wouldn't be able to stop at least one of those airbourne units from taking cover behind a structure and repairing.
Or if you have support! Those snipers might take a few pot shots, but I can guaruntee you if the sniper had any sense, they'd want to take out that hotwire or technician that is trying to sneak in over your airbourne unit.
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I wasn't suggesting that you fly an aircraft into the enemy base to kill the snipers. I was pointing out that it's difficult kill them with anything if the snipers are shooting from inside their own base. On Walls Flying, they shoot from the walls, or from on top of their buildings. Sure, you can send your own snipers to take them out, but they're going to be at a huge disadvantage since they have to actually go out of the safety of their base to do it. If they take a hit to the body, they can move straight back into cover and get a refill from the nearest building.
Come on, who cares if a fictional rifle could theoretically destroy a helicopter. That's not the issue, because Renegade is a game, and most of it isn't the slightest bit like real life. Are you seriously going to tell me that snipers should be able to sit on the Refinery roof and slaughter aircraft half the map away, in five shots, with very little fear of retaliation?
Imagine something for a second. Imagine Orcas that don't have machine guns, but have powerful missiles like a Stealth Tank, and can be used effectively in groups to take out an enemy building. Wouldn't that be cool? I think it would be more fun than constantly hiding from snipers. Also, if they had to reload their ammunition like was suggested, there wouldn't be the problem of aircraft dominating everything once the Hand/Barracks has been destroyed.
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| Unit Balance [message #85416] |
Tue, 04 May 2004 09:25 |
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m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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There are multiple snipers practically every game. That means that if you're in an aircraft, you're always going to be getting shot by them. Unless you're saying that it's stupid to fly at all, I don't understand what your point is.
You hit the nail on the head when you said that "it's the same issue, just that snipers have more range". Raveshaws and PICs do more damage than Havocs and Sakuras, but I don't have a problem with that... because they can't hit you from halfway across the map, inside their own base. If you're in range, they have a better chance of killing you than a Havoc... but if you're in range, you also have a chance to kill them with your aircraft without being down to red health before you get close to them. I consider that to be fair. Oh, and just so you know, if there happened to be a group of PICs, of course I wouldn't try to approach them with a single Apache. However, "approaching them" would mean flying physically close to them, which is different to Havocs where it would mean flying a helicopter in the open anywhere on the map.
Also, I would complain about the damage snipers do to Humvees and Buggies, because they're pretty much useless as soon as the snipers appear. Even more so than aircraft, because they're limited to driving horizontally so they can't use the terrain to hide in the same way. They're supposed to be fast attack anti-infantry units, not a poor man's APC for the first 5 minutes of the game and then never used again.
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| Unit Balance [message #85432] |
Tue, 04 May 2004 12:00 |
Pavla
Messages: 38
Registered: March 2004
Location: Netherlands
Karma: 0
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ok... and now my opinion:
I've got an open mind for changes and game modifications to optimize gameplay so let's try out and see whether it works or not!
I like the idea of special maps/mods with balancing modifications in it, and new anti-aircraft characters. What i do like especially are the little updates like the emoticons, the harvester message and the pistol loaded (not that i need it) in renegade. So when modifications are developed, i'll try them definately out and decide then if i like them or not.
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| Unit Balance [message #85472] |
Tue, 04 May 2004 15:25 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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I'm against the damage they do, but I can't help but think about what happened in city_flying_exp that aircrftkiller done. Ramjets could barely damage aircraft, rockets could home in on them, but that didn't seem to stop their domination on the field.
Here's a fact though: Ramjet rifles do exactly DOUBLE the damage of standard sniper rifles to light armour. Standard rifles do 30 per shot, ramjets do 60. Looking at this from a different viewpoint, doesn't it seem fair that a character double the price does about double the damage with the same warhead against the same armour type? The ramjet rifle is like a high velocity sniper rifle. It's not a sniper rifle like some would have you believe.
I propose this: Ramjet rifles to 1½ times the damage to light armour (this includes aircraft), instead of double like it is now. If it was this way, it'd take exactly 7 shots to bring down an aircraft. You do the math, it's correct. Good for the price AND fair enough for the drivers and pilots. By this standard, aircraft would last longer, but not a lot longer.
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| Unit Balance [message #85568] |
Tue, 04 May 2004 22:01 |
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m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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Anywhere between 20 and 40 players, depending on which server I'm playing on and how full it is. It's true that the larger the server is, the more unbalanced Havocs/Sakuras are against light armoured vehicles. The thing is though, you could theoretically have a lot more Raveshaws/PICs while the vehicle limit remains the same, but that doesn't make anywhere near as much of a difference to tank warfare as the extra snipers do to flying. Even in larger groups, Raveshaws and PICs still need to be relatively close to tanks to damage them. If the tanks move away, they have to follow them to stay in range, possibly having to move out of cover. They can't just stand in a tunnel entrance and be able to hit anything within viewing distance. It's the Ramjet itself that's unbalanced, not the larger servers, because it shouldn't be doing that much damage to light vehicles at sniper rifle range.
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| i disagree [message #85860] |
Thu, 06 May 2004 17:56 |
snipbravo
Messages: 58
Registered: May 2004
Karma: 0
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I would have to respectfully disagree about the snipers. While they are espessially good at killin infantry, they should also be good at killin vehicles. If i see a heli comin toward me, im goin to shoot no matter what gun i am carrying. This game is a combat game, not a flying game. IF people would like to fly free with no sniper fire oriented at them, buy one of those. It is oriented on destroying the bases and killing people any way possible. This includes shooting down helis with the most powerful anti-heli weapon, in this case the sniper rifle. I have posted a few topics on this.
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| Snipers and vehicles [message #85861] |
Thu, 06 May 2004 18:01 |
snipbravo
Messages: 58
Registered: May 2004
Karma: 0
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Not to anger anyone, but i think snipers should remain the same. Renegade is a all out combat game, not an aircraft oriented game. IF you and your aircraft loving self want one of these games, buy commanche or f22 lightening. Westwood made the game this way to keep from aircraft becoming the oobra almighty vehicle of renegade, and theu just happened to give this power to the sniper, and they did a good job.
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| Re: Snipers and vehicles [message #85865] |
Thu, 06 May 2004 18:10 |
Drkpwn3r
Messages: 317
Registered: March 2004
Location: Unknown to you.
Karma: 0
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| snipbravo |
Westwood made the game this way to keep from aircraft becoming the oobra almighty vehicle of renegade, and theu just happened to give this power to the sniper, and they did a good job.
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He does kinda have a point there... :rolleyes:
I know I don't want aircraft to be the #1 dominant unit in the game, in fact, I only really use a deadeye or black hand sniper anyways, that is, as long as people don't try to get all uber powerful against me by using a sakura/havoc against me, then I just buy the same strength unit to kill them, but only if they kill me with 1, no other time. 
However, if aircraft do get turned into the #1 dominant unit in Renegade then I'm just gonna move to my Half-Life games completely 
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| no [message #86182] |
Sat, 08 May 2004 18:37 |
snipbravo
Messages: 58
Registered: May 2004
Karma: 0
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I thin that that is a HORRIBLE idea. You dont play renegade much, do you? If you cant locate a sniper shootin at you then you are a NOOB. IF the sniper hides, track him down and dont waste your time here whining about this topic. I've heard about you before. You spend your time whining about snipers which are WAY better players tahn youll EVER be. LEARN TO PLAY BEFORE WHINING FROM NOW ON.
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| Unit Balance [message #86201] |
Sat, 08 May 2004 22:08 |
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PointlessAmbler
Messages: 318
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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snipbravo: And you don't seem to know how to do anything other than complain. Mammoth powerup is good - it is not worth its price at the moment, as it can be beaten easily by a Stealth Tank, which is supposed to be a support vehicle, not to mention it only costs 3/5 as much.
Regular snipers damage aircraft too, almost as much as n00bjetters. You're saying you can find a sniper that's hiding in a tunnel or on a base and kill him before he kills you when he can see you EASILY and can start taking shots at you before you're anywhere near the range where you can hit him, and when it only takes 6 or so shots to kill you? I don't believe you. Unless you happen to be lucky and the enemy n00bjetter/sniper happens to be shooting you when he's only 100 or less meters away (which is rare), you're going down. And considering helicopters are the second-most expensive unit, that makes them nearly worthless.
Helipads would be good because they completely prevent helicopters from ever being the most powerful unit. Why? Simple. Helicopters cannot hold an area if they have limited ammunition. They may be able to momentarily clear it in the case of the Apache against infantry, or the Orca against light vehicles, but they'll have to return to base to reload, allowing you to come back into the area, possibly even further than before. As Aircraftkiller said, a single Orca would only be able to damage a Light Tank 50%. That means he has to go find a safe place to hide and repair for a little bit, and then he's back rolling. Helicopters are supposed to be support units, and limited ammunition is a much better way of enforcing that then making them piss-weak against a unit that costs half as much and can hit them without fear of retaliation.
EDIT: Oh, and by the way, KaiserPanda is not a whiner. I've seen him around more than you have, I'm sure of it. It sounds like someone's hypocritical :rolleyes:
Red Alert: A Path Beyond Manual Writer
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| Unit Balance [message #86212] |
Sun, 09 May 2004 01:51 |
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Deathgod
Messages: 504
Registered: February 2003
Location: The House of B
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| PointlessAmbler |
Mammoth powerup is good - it is not worth its price at the moment, as it can be beaten easily by a Stealth Tank, which is supposed to be a support vehicle, not to mention it only costs 3/5 as much.
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You might lose to a Stank if you suck, yes. I don't know where you get the idea that they're support vehicles, either... I guess that makes the medium tank a support unit since GDI gets the mammoth. :rolleyes: Light Tanks cost only 40% of what a Mammoth costs, but I can take out a Mammy with one. Does that mean they need to be nerfed?
| PointlessAmbler |
Regular snipers damage aircraft too, almost as much as n00bjetters.
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Try half as much. It takes a havoc/sakura 5 shots to kill an Apache/Orca, and Deadeye/BHSniper 10 shots.
| PointlessAmbler |
You're saying you can find a sniper that's hiding in a tunnel or on a base and kill him before he kills you when he can see you EASILY and can start taking shots at you before you're anywhere near the range where you can hit him, and when it only takes 6 or so shots to kill you? I don't believe you.
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There are only so many places to hide on each map... not to mention that characters ducking in and out of places on the map are easy to spot because of their movement.
| PointlessAmbler |
Unless you happen to be lucky and the enemy n00bjetter/sniper happens to be shooting you when he's only 100 or less meters away (which is rare), you're going down. And considering helicopters are the second-most expensive unit, that makes them nearly worthless.
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They have a role, but if you fly into an area full of snipers expect to die, just like any other unit rushing into an area full of counterunits. If I drive my Medium Tank into an area with 3 or 4 Raveshaws, I expect to die. This is what some people call common sense.
| PointlessAmbler |
Helipads would be good because they completely prevent helicopters from ever being the most powerful unit. Why? Simple. Helicopters cannot hold an area if they have limited ammunition.
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They can't even hold an area now, they're a lightly-armored support unit. Even their rockets don't do a huge amount of damage.
| PointlessAmbler |
They may be able to momentarily clear it in the case of the Apache against infantry, or the Orca against light vehicles, but they'll have to return to base to reload, allowing you to come back into the area, possibly even further than before. As Aircraftkiller said, a single Orca would only be able to damage a Light Tank 50%.
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As it stands now an Orca can kill numerous LTs, this is a big downgrade.
| PointlessAmbler |
That means he has to go find a safe place to hide and repair for a little bit, and then he's back rolling.
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Helis already have to do this when they take damage because they're fragile.
| PointlessAmbler |
Helicopters are supposed to be support units, and limited ammunition is a much better way of enforcing that then making them piss-weak against a unit that costs half as much and can hit them without fear of retaliation.
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See above. If you're going to make helis require ammo, all vehicles should also. It would be horribly stupid within the confines of the Renegade engine to have one vehicle for each team with such a handicap... I can't see them being too useful if they need to be flying back to base after firing at one target.
| PointlessAmbler |
EDIT: Oh, and by the way, KaiserPanda is not a whiner. I've seen him around more than you have, I'm sure of it. It sounds like someone's hypocritical :rolleyes:
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So since someone has been around longer their opinion is automatically more correct than someone else's? Wrong. I personally think that they are both idiots, and so are you. Since I have been here since the old-school Ren forums does that make me right? No. Number of posts or length of forum tenure doesn't mean fuck.
WOL: priestofb
FUD Online for Renegade character details
The preceding post was sponsored by FUD.
We are the way, you are in the way.â„¢
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| Unit Balance [message #86245] |
Sun, 09 May 2004 08:03 |
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PointlessAmbler
Messages: 318
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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| Deathgod |
You might lose to a Stank if you suck, yes. I don't know where you get the idea that they're support vehicles, either... I guess that makes the medium tank a support unit since GDI gets the mammoth. Light Tanks cost only 40% of what a Mammoth costs, but I can take out a Mammy with one. Does that mean they need to be nerfed?
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Ok, fine, I guess so. STanks only have 200/200 anyway, so if you get killed, it's your own damn fault. I can agree with that.
| Deathgod |
Try half as much. It takes a havoc/sakura 5 shots to kill an Apache/Orca, and Deadeye/BHSniper 10 shots.
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Fine, but they're much harder to find because their shots are invisible.
| Deathgod |
There are only so many places to hide on each map... not to mention that characters ducking in and out of places on the map are easy to spot because of their movement.
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It doesn't even matter if they hide, because they can shoot you down from the maximum view distance. Infantry are pretty damn hard to see from 300 meters away, especially when they're not moving or better, hiding. Their bullets don't give you hints as to where they are.
Ramjets do let you know where the shot is coming from, but since they kill you in five shots and Ramjets have a four round clip, it's basically impossible to close the distance and kill them in time even if you know exactly where they are.
| Deathgod |
They have a role, but if you fly into an area full of snipers expect to die, just like any other unit rushing into an area full of counterunits. If I drive my Medium Tank into an area with 3 or 4 Raveshaws, I expect to die. This is what some people call common sense.
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My point is, Snipers are supposed to be counterunits to infantry, not light vehicles. Where in any game, C&C included, has a sniper rifle been effective against even the lightest vehicle armor? Commandos in C&C have a hell of a time killing a goddamn Nod Buggy, and this game is supposed to be based on C&C. I'm not saying there shouldn't be air counters, that's retarded, there needs to be a counterunit to everything. I'm just saying that picking Snipers to be counterunits to aircraft was a poor design choice. I'm also saying that units should at least stand some sort of chance against counterunits, because if they don't, the unit is worthless. As you used in your example, a Medium Tank (800) can actually defend itself against one Raveshaw (1000). Agreed, two or three can rip it to pieces. With aircraft, however, it only takes one Sniper (500, 55% the cost of attack aircraft) or n00bjetter (only slightly more expensive than the aircraft) to kill the damn thing with the same speed that it would take two Raveshaws (which cost 2000, 2.5 times the cost of the Medium Tank), especially when it's a unit that is supposed to be attacking infantry.
| Deathgod |
They can't even hold an area now, they're a lightly-armored support unit. Even their rockets don't do a huge amount of damage.
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Yeah, they can't hold an area now because they get shot down from 300 meters away by some idiot with a sniper rifle.
| Deathgod |
As it stands now an Orca can kill numerous LTs, this is a big downgrade.
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Except it never gets the chance to because he gets shot down long before he approaches a target worth attacking. I'm saying that Helipads would be a better way of limiting aircraft than making them completely die against any sort of counterattack.
| Deathgod |
See above. If you're going to make helis require ammo, all vehicles should also. It would be horribly stupid within the confines of the Renegade engine to have one vehicle for each team with such a handicap... I can't see them being too useful if they need to be flying back to base after firing at one target.
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I don't see how it's a handicap... helis are support units by nature. If you use them at the right time (ie. when you're doing an assault on the enemy base, and soften up enemy armor a bit), they can be quite useful. Why not implement them the way that C&C did it, instead of making them die the second they leave their base?
| Deathgod |
So since someone has been around longer their opinion is automatically more correct than someone else's? Wrong. I personally think that they are both idiots, and so are you. Since I have been here since the old-school Ren forums does that make me right? No. Number of posts or length of forum tenure doesn't mean fuck.
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Meh, it's not his opinion that I'm talking about when I say that, it's that he has pulled out all the cliches: calling him a n00b for disagreeing, saying it's a horrible idea without any support behind his argument, and the "I'm right, you're not, that means USUX" attitude, not to mention poor grammar and spelling :rolleyes: Therefore, it's a bit hypocritical for him to call someone else a n00b when he himself is unable to provide a well-thought-out counterargument and misspells words in his post.
I don't think you're a moron just because we happen to disagree: you're actually capable of coming up with a coherent counterargument, a rare ability on the endless void of stupidity known as the Internet.
Red Alert: A Path Beyond Manual Writer
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| Unit Balance [message #86260] |
Sun, 09 May 2004 09:33 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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I'd like to know if anyone in this thread has actually played the one level that held this theory (in a fairly large server, i.e. 7 v 7 or ideally 10 v 10+), C&C city flying exp. If you don't have it, get it here - http://www.cncden.com/ren_ackmaps.shtml and read the changes to units. The only difference is the helicopter pads don't restore ammo, they only repair airborne units. See if you can organise a game or get a bigger server to run it. If you can have a few games on this map, with at least 7 players on each side, come back and comment. Ideally, I'd ask FUD to run it since they're server admins that've been reading this topic the most, but they don't want things changed and their server would probably sit empty anyway. If fastc0nn or renstation could run it, they'd get players.
(Edit) If you're interested and can't find anyone to play it with, add foxofts to your buddy list and we can have 1v1 aircraft vs stealth tank/mammoth tank/mrls/rocket soldier fights on it, to see how well the rockets seek and if the aircraft can stay alive (they reload in 10 second intervals, it's an alternative to going back to base but leaves you exposed).
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| Unit Balance [message #86262] |
Sun, 09 May 2004 09:52 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| PointlessAmbler |
It doesn't even matter if they hide, because they can shoot you down from the maximum view distance. Infantry are pretty damn hard to see from 300 meters away, especially when they're not moving or better, hiding. Their bullets don't give you hints as to where they are.
Ramjets do let you know where the shot is coming from, but since they kill you in five shots and Ramjets have a four round clip, it's basically impossible to close the distance and kill them in time even if you know exactly where they are.
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I'm going to use the example of City_Flying to prove my point; seeing how it is considered an official map and should therefore maintain a sense of balance in the game.
If you are on GDI and purchase an Orca, then you've got a terrible advantage over a good percentage of snipers. Each side on City_flying has 7 possible ventures to attack the opposite base: The onramp to the highway, the westward entrance (to the GDI base, anyway), the eastern entrance (at least on GDI's side), and the four windows which look onto the base from the structure in the front of the Guard Tower. The Guard Tower will fire on any infantry unit that steps into those windows, so they can be ruled out. The War Factory's garage doesn't point to the onramp, or the eastern entrance, and it is impossible to get around as an infantry unit. So that leaves one possible place for a sniper to actually shoot down your Orca, at least inbase. Now, if you cannot maneuver your Orca to go behind the structure in the westward side of the GDI base, and repair, or even drop down from above and ambush a sniper, then you really shouldn't be complaining, because you obviously suck at flying.
This isn't even an issue in the centre of the map: If the sniper is on the highway, then fly under it. And vise versa. If the sniper is in one of the windows, you can EASILY fly between the sniper in the window and the highway and avoid all damage.
IN FACT, you can even maneuver within your effective range and ambush the snipers on the no-man's land without taking damage. Simple thought out strategy (which was what the game was MADE for) easily balances out what everyone here seems to believe is a balance issue.
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My point is, Snipers are supposed to be counterunits to infantry, not light vehicles. Where in any game, C&C included, has a sniper rifle been effective against even the lightest vehicle armor?
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Where in any CNC game has a mere infantry unit been able to shoot down Orcas and Apaches that are airboune? Don't complain about those technicalities unless you're willing to change them all. That includes engineers having those repair guns, infantry (or any ground unit for that matter, save rocketeers) shooting down airbourne units, the Obelisk able to shoot down Orcas, and so on.
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Yeah, they can't hold an area now because they get shot down from 300 meters away by some idiot with a sniper rifle.
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Why are you applying a circumstantial situation to every situation?
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Except it never gets the chance to because he gets shot down long before he approaches a target worth attacking.
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No, Orcas and Apaches can easily get to their destinations without being shot down.
You can't change the Ramjet's damage to flying units because you're tired of being shot down easily. The game is meant for strategy, and in fact, only two levels are officially designed with these damage values in mind. And BOTH of those levels have strategic elements in place to counter snipers.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Unit Balance [message #86264] |
Sun, 09 May 2004 10:23 |
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PointlessAmbler
Messages: 318
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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I was thinking more along the lines of actually hiding in a good place. You know, like the windows that overlook the Tiberium field? You're not easily visible there. Obviously there are ways to avoid being shot down. My main point is, why should Snipers be the unit to counter aircraft? It doesn't make sense. Damage is a secondary argument, and I'll admit there are compelling arguments for both sides on that one. My main point is that rocket-firing units should be the counter to air units, like it actually was in C&C, not snipers. Bullet damage to aircraft should be decreased somewhat to reflect the fact that in C&C, bullets couldn't even hit aircraft.
Red Alert: A Path Beyond Manual Writer
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| Unit Balance [message #86268] |
Sun, 09 May 2004 10:32 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Remember, the game isn't snipers vs. aircraft, it's GDI vs. Nod.
I personally, don't waste any of my ammo on aircraft (mostly because I don't waste my money with the 1000 credit sniper over the 500 credit one) because when I'm a sniper, I'm going after infantry. Shooting down aircraft is just a costly bonus.
Chances are, if you're playing a 10 vs. 10 game, and you're planning on camping out and hunting down choppers, you're going to have opposition from tanks, stealth units, other infantry, whatever. It all balances out.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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