Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off)
| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67010] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 09:14   |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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As far as you trying to show inconsistencies in my charachter: Keep trying.
I supported you when you were being uneccesarily attacked over quality of your work. I still think you do fine work, and will still defend against unwarranted quality attacks.
And what have I done?
Nothing.
I suppose I could have been a programmer. A mapper. A modder.
Instead, I am a father. I don't have 8 hours a day of free time. I can, however hold a teenager who thinks he knows how the world works, accountable. If you want your argument to hold water, try being a father, and I will give 3D studio 3 months. We will see what is more difficult. :rolleyes:
A dual standard will get you nowhere. Take that advice from a father.
It's your mentality of "since this is free, I expect it to be perfect, and I don't think I should have to do anything. So if it fails, I'm going to whine about it on the forums."
Ok, that was amusing. Did you even read what I wrote? I don't expect perfection. I stated quite the contrary. WW should have been. Not the map makers.
Anyways.
Renegade is dead. Show me how the shell we have left is even slightly comparable to what it used to be like? Denial is not just a river in Egypt, kid. Saying it aint so, doesn't mean it isn't.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67014] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 09:27 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Aircraftkiller |
You weren't just defending against attacks, you actively participated in them.
Since you're a father, and you're not willing to do anything to save this game, then why are you bothering to complain? Just move on and save your typing.
Of course, if you actually want to learn to do stuff, I'll take my own time and teach you how to do it. That is, if you're up for it.
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1. Reread. I defend quality of work, not your temper tantrums, and circular logic. Unlike the others you argue with, i am not easily derailed from the topic by attacks on my charachter.
2. Because, like you, I like this game. I feel you are the single greatest threat to it's continuance in reagards to creative efforts for it's survival.
3. Reread. I have zero free time to engage in the study of 3D studio. Due to being the head of a family. I am trying to raise my children to not disrespect people, and find value in others ideas, and efforts.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67038] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 11:29 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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To be fair, though, I don't attack everyone. I only attack certain people.
I'll give you a brief overview of the history between Titan and I. Originally, he came around, demanding that I help him. When I refused, because I don't let little bastards boss me around, he decided to start talking shit.
"oh no, youre destroying teh community"
Same shit I'm seeing here. I don't give a damn who you think I am or what you think I know, people are easily capable of doing exactly what I did, endure criticism and read tutorials, plus experiment... And keep working.
If I had Titan's attitude towards this game, I'd have stopped over a year ago, because of all the negative criticism I receive. It doesn't bother me though, because I enjoy arguing with people as a means of short entertainment.
What people don't understand is that ALL criticism is constructive. One doesn't need "well it all looks great and blah blah" to fix problems and learn. If that were true, then you'd have a lot of people who were great at working on game levels or whatever else... But you don't see that, because it's not the criticism that's causing the game to die, it's the people who aren't willing to work, or follow through on what they've started.
As you once said, empty promises and shit like that. Some just don't honestly understand how hard it is to do anything for a game until they finally get so frustrated that they quit. No amount of positive criticism will help if they're so upset over it fucking up that they just quit and go away.
I help people out on a regular basis. Which is more than any of you harping about wanting me to help can say. What is it that YOU do? Whine about me on the forum? Yeah, that's real constructive.
When I know someone isn't going to give up, I help them out. I hate wasting my time. I haven't got enough of it to waste trying to teach someone for hours, only to find out that tomorrow they changed their minds.
Like this one guy who e-mailed me, asking for help. He wanted me to give him one of my levels to learn from, along with advice, so I gave him both.
Next three days, what happens? I get an e-mail saying he quit Renegade. Most of you don't even know who he is. I didn't until that first mail he sent.
I don't like Titan, I'm not going to help him unless he stops making everything like he hasn't paid any attention to tutorials, except on how to use mesh smoothing to create excessive polygons...
That shows me he's a waste of time to even consider helping. And you know why I don't like him? When someone demands something from me, telling me I have to do it or they'll "get mean" with me, I say "Fuck you asshole" and harass them.
Which does bring it into the public... Except that's where it all originated. If he didn't want me berating his work, he should have shut the fuck up and left me alone.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67043] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 11:46 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Aircraftkiller |
I help people out on a regular basis. Which is more than any of you harping about wanting me to help can say. What is it that YOU do? Whine about me on the forum? Yeah, that's real constructive.
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I thought we covered this material. Are you ignoring prior postings on purpose, or do I really need to rehash this again? Try to keep up.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67077] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 14:54 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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| Titan1x77 |
| Crimson |
But if all these anti-ACK folks praise Titan just to spite ACK, he's not going to be motivated to improve.
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How the hell do you know what motivates me?
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You know, it's this sort of attitude towards someone who's trying to HELP YOU that makes me start to understand why ACK dislikes you.
| Tian1x77 |
See the Readme for High Noon 2 ....as it states "thanks to Aircraftkiller for the inspiration"
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I'm not arguing that you often do things like this to appear the "bigger man".
| Titan1x77 |
not thats the only thing that motivates me...theres many factors on which I like to improve my maps...for one, Im still learning the ren-x tools and finding new ways to do things at a faster rate.
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I expect nothing less and I already said you are making huge improvements with each new map.
| Titan1x77 |
and I think the using of the word "praise" is a little overboard...because people say nice job keep it up??
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I think you misinterpreted my usage of the word "praise". I didn't mean in a worshipping sense.
| Titan1x77 |
Seems like he interputs it like that becuase someone else's maps are enjoyed by players in this community.
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If that's true, that's not your problem or mine or the community's.
| Titan1x77 |
If everyone including ack or if noone in the entire community enjoyed my maps ..It wouldn't make a difference, I'm still going to try and create the map to the best of my abilites.
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ACK says the same thing... 
| Titan1x77 |
all in all...my maps that have been created as of the past 3 months have great gameplay and look nice....This is my opinion by playing them in a couple of servers and seeing that gameplay matches those of WW maps and actually High noon 2 surpasses that gameplay by involving every aspect of this game.
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As I said before, playing around with all the engine offers is a great thing and shouldn't be dissuaded.
| KIRBY098 |
All the RENGAURDS, DEAD SIX,N00BSTORIES, RENEVO'S, RENALERTS and RENFORUMS are great. But with no variety of maps other than yours to play, what is the point? Everyone could have contributed to this game. Not just the self appointed elitists.
Instead we have a stagnant, non-evolving, abondoned,unfinished and uncommited remnant.
Congratulations. You are the self proclaimed king of a dead realm.
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This is very wrong. ACK is not involved in RenGuard, Dead 6, n00bstories (except in a very small and limited capacity), or RenEvo. He's obviously the main mapper for RenAlert and he helps to moderate the mod forums in RenForums while I run the bulk of them. Dante is mapping the Dead 6 expansion (to the best of my knowledge). I think you overestimate ACK's overall participation in the community. He may be the loudest, but he's not the only one working on stuff and he's not the one calling all the shots. His opinions of course are valued by many of these organizations of people and he often knows what people are doing, but that's about it.
So please don't belittle the work of our organizations just because we happen to be friends with ACK.
I'm the bawss.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67079] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 15:16 |
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Titan1x77
Messages: 1086
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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It doesnt seem to matter...you obviously dont like me anyways
My posts have been deleted from the mod forum for no significant reason,yet your ok with that.
So how are you trying to HELP ME?
So why the blatant disregard to the deleting of my posts?
Ive sent you 2 PM's yet only recieved one back from you stating my answer wasn't up to par...theres many other posts that aren't even helpful in that section.
apprear to be the bigger man?...Maybe it's just the truth
I'd like to apoligize if I came off as being a little harsh to your post...but Im just replying to what you mentioned as me not being motivated and felt that you don't quite understand me.....When some people come in and just insult ACK and say Titans maps are better...I'd like to speak for myself...half the time these people are just there in spite of Flaming him..which is obvious to me and you.
Im here to have fun...and when im mistreated...I would like to contact an admin and expect to be treated as an equal to every other member here..when the truth is "Ack doesnt like you" "so you have to make your post's a bit more meaningful, in order for him not to delete them"
EDIT: Im fine with not posting or replying there anymore...Ive tried to talk with you on this for sometime now and I understand theres nothing you can do about it...ACK will be ACK
"But if the gameplay sucks, the looks don't matter at all." - Sir Phoenixx
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67082] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 15:25 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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I don't like you?? Since when? I am defending your work and when I run a fanmap server your work will be represented so long as it's played.
I'm working with ACK on a compromise.
Also, I would never claim to understand you. I was making a generalization.
I'm the bawss.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67091] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 16:30 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Crimson |
Please don't claim to understand the details of our arrangements. I have already told him that I really really don't appreciate people's dislike of ACK being projected onto my projects and these forums where it doesn't belong and we're working on fixing that.
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I'm sorry that you are now upset crimson, but my feelings are no different. I've reached my limit on "compromises," and hearing that you're working on another one is not one bit consoling or reassuring.
I honestly don't want to burn any bridges here, which I feel that I'm already starting to do.. But to be honest, as long as he remains in any position of power or authority protected by your friendship, my faith and trust will continue to dwindle.
Every community needs a few jokers, a few idiots, and a few mysterious personalities; but they can all do without arrogant pricks who feel that they are above the law.
When you publicly denounce his deleting of posts for personal reasons, publicly demand that he follow stricter guidelines in the way he responds to other community members, and he publicly apologizes for the way he has acted in the recent past, the foundation will be created and we can begin again. Sadly though, he is proud of the way he acts, has absolutely no remorse, and has given no one any reason to believe that he will do anything differently; in fact he has stated outright that he will not. You have admin permissions on my forums.. Have you bothered to read what everyone there thinks also? This isn't something new, or something specific to your fourms.
You may believe that a private conversation between you and him will suffice, but we've all been here before.. Way too many times.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67098] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 16:48 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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Let me get this clear.
1) I do NOT appreciate him deleting posts. I have told him a few times to move them to the Silo but he doesn't. The fact that he deletes the posts so I can't see what was removed shows that he knows damn well I won't like what he did if he's trying to hide it.
2) You're not going to burn a bridge with me by stating your opinions. Lord knows I do that when I feel it's necessary. I very nearly lost a friend over it but that's a story for another day.
I have successfully cleaned up the moderation of my servers. It's amazing that this task is proving to be more difficult, but one way or another I will succeed. I don't give up on anything or anyone, ever.
I'm the bawss.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67102] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 17:11 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| Quote: |
Sadly though, he is proud of the way he acts, has absolutely no remorse, and has given no one any reason to believe that he will do anything differently; in fact he has stated outright that he will not.
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I refuse to bow down to people who cannot take opinions; the same opinions they dole out liberally (e.g., you dedicating yourself to bashing me, trying to see if I'll "feel bad" and give in, sorry but that does not work with me.) in public and private.
I'd be a bit more remorseful if I knew I wasn't going to have to read a ten page long tirade from you and a lot of others about "you did this or that, but we did it too, and you're wrong because of it."
The only things I am sorry for is that you decided to get involved in my affairs with people who have nothing to do with you, your forums, or your server. In addition, the fact that you getting involved between myself and Titan means that you're making my "online life" a bit more difficult by trying to force me into choosing between your blessing and bashing someone I can't stand.
I don't like having to choose between a former friend and an attention whore. If you hadn't been so adamant in trying to attack me, trying to get me to do what you want, instead of just approaching me and asking that I do something for you that would make you happier, you realize none of this would be a problem?
When you bite me, I bite back, unless I really care enough about you. And guess what, I did at one point, and I am still lax to write any sort of mean-spirited reply towards you.
So I guess what it comes down to is this... You want to be the self-appointed "freedom fighter" for people, all because I'm expressing my opinion on Titan's shit... And you'll spend your time demonizing me for it.
Great, bring it on. Write those opinions all you want. I'm not going to respond with the same kind of malice that you're showing here, not towards you. I'll keep it up with Titan until he changes, which probably isn't going to happen.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67103] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 17:34 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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The way you treat Titan does directly involve me. My community was set up to welcome fan maps, to have people create them, to play them, to discuss them.. I run another Web site that offers hundreds of them to download.
You + anyOtherMapDeveloper = FlameWar
I don't know HOW many conversations we have had on our forums asking you politely to shut the hell up and knock it off. YOU are just about the only person that will bitch for 7 pages about seeing through a triangle on the floor of siege, even while 100 other people will tell you they could care less. In fact, the LAST time this happend, you went crying with your tail between your legs and said "I'm taking my maps with me! You can't host them anymore"...
Those are your opinions, that is your prerogative, whatever.. but don't pretend to tell me that it doesn't involve me, or that I should have just come to you "in person" and asked for you to do something.. pulease.. I don't know how many countless evenings and hours have gone on between me, and 10 other people I know trying to do exactly that.. YOU don't want to hear it, public or private.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67106] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 18:09 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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I don't take well to "shut the hell up" in public, nor do I take well to being told what to do in public. It's beyond embarassing, it's more like insulting.
If you talk to me about it, as in me and you on ICQ or through a private message session, something usually gets done. Crimson can testify to this because that's how I've asked her to get things done with me.
If she were to do what you've done before, I'd have never listened to a word she said.
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In fact, the LAST time this happend, you went crying with your tail between your legs and said "I'm taking my maps with me! You can't host them anymore"...
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That had nothing to do with saying Siege had problems. It was because England kicked me out of the server since I blew up on him. He was continually messaging me all sorts of questions and I got sick of it. That's why I said that, it was an immature act done in anger without thinking the consequences through.
You've never asked me to do anything for you in private. It's always been on a public forum where you're attempting to bash me into complying with whatever you ask. I'm not like most people, I don't back down when attacked, especially not online.
All it takes is talking to me in person, on ICQ or whatever form of online communication you prefer.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67129] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 20:00 |
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Titan1x77
Messages: 1086
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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It's almost as if you know you've lost
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Lost??..lost what?..whats to win?...whats game are we playing??...whats the contest??
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You haven't been around for a year and a half. It's been about nine months
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Who cares??..9 months,a year,2 years,2 months
After reading all of the negative garbage you post up in 1 day ...most people can see that your in need of some type of help...doesnt take 9 months to figure that out.
"But if the gameplay sucks, the looks don't matter at all." - Sir Phoenixx
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67155] |
Wed, 18 February 2004 04:39 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Crimson |
| KIRBY098 |
All the RENGAURDS, DEAD SIX,N00BSTORIES, RENEVO'S, RENALERTS and RENFORUMS are great. But with no variety of maps other than yours to play, what is the point? Everyone could have contributed to this game. Not just the self appointed elitists.
Instead we have a stagnant, non-evolving, abondoned,unfinished and uncommited remnant.
Congratulations. You are the self proclaimed king of a dead realm.
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This is very wrong. ACK is not involved in RenGuard, Dead 6, n00bstories (except in a very small and limited capacity), or RenEvo. He's obviously the main mapper for RenAlert and he helps to moderate the mod forums in RenForums while I run the bulk of them. Dante is mapping the Dead 6 expansion (to the best of my knowledge). I think you overestimate ACK's overall participation in the community. He may be the loudest, but he's not the only one working on stuff and he's not the one calling all the shots. His opinions of course are valued by many of these organizations of people and he often knows what people are doing, but that's about it.
So please don't belittle the work of our organizations just because we happen to be friends with ACK.
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I am referring to the amalgamation of all the elitists into Blackhand studios. Ack is one of them, and will now have direct input into unfinished products that are now lumped into one company. While you are all working your "projects" independently, those projects will need maps. (Most of them) Who will you turn to? Since there is a choice of either Ack, Titan, and one or two other people, and ack is already a member of your organization, I am going to take a stab at saying Ack will be the choice.
As far as berating your organizations: I look forward to seeing these products completed. But you just made things a bit more complicated to get help outside this new circle you have created.
Dante's network was the closest thing to a mod community we were going to get. The main reason people took so well to it were his welcoming attitude, and willingness to try anything and help anyone.
I am glad to see such a well balanced individual on the team.
Just be careful. As he has stated: Ack bites back. Whether the hurt is real or imagined. As Titan is experiencing, you don't actually have to DO anything to feel the wrath.
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