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Why do you think? [message #61572]

Sun, 11 January 2004 16:48

Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?

Karma:

General (1 Star)

NukeIt15

and whatever happens next- well, I'll deal with that when I get there.

I'm gonna stop you right there: What you've just stated, "whatever happens next". Now, I don't know your personal philosophy on life and whatnot, but when you said those 3 words, you're suggesting that you're unsure of what will happen. In doing so, you're not an atheist, but an agnostic atheist, one who believes that a God PROBABLY doesn't exist.
Where a theist says with complete confidence that God, with a 100% chance does exist (acceptance). An Atheist says that God, with a 100% does NOT exist (denial). Why people who call themselves either are being stupid, is for the reasons that I've said above. I'm not out to call you a moron, I'm just looking at the logical reasons why both atheism and theism are illogical (if that made any sense Razz

). I'm gonna explain my opinion about your explanation on atheism now.

If you go through your life (just using the examples you've given) believing that magic exists, but you deny that a God or supreme being created the magic or the world it exists in, then you MUST say that magic must have a logical explanation, whatever that explanation may be, (even if we haven't deduced that explanation yet).

Remember, in a world without a God (or supreme intellect which created this universe OR is greater than it) than you must believe that everything has a logical purpose to it. If you didn't, then you wouldn't believe that there is no God (or supremer thought). You couldn't. I know it sounds as if I'm going in circles, but I've been debating this for over 12 years with colleagues and profs, the concept of God always leads back to agnosticism. Not one of the polar opposites of theism and atheism.

Quote:

If you're going to go that way, then I can say just as easily that the supposed supreme being was created by something else greater than itself- and that the creator was created by something greater still. And so on and so forth, ad infinitum

This will sound confusing upon first reading it, but once you get your head around the concept, it makes sense, and I'll say it's hypothetical as not to draw any conclusions, so bare with it:

The universe as we know it is created by a creator. The creator is perfect in every sense when looking from the perspective of the universe in question, because the creator defines all the parameters for the creation. Now, according to your theory from there, every "universe" as it were, would be caused by another. The creator in each case would ALWAYS appear to be a God from the 1st person perspective of the creation. It's the whole Lisa Simpson and the universe created in the tooth thing.

Understand? Read it a few times. It's a difficult concept to explain, sorry.

Quote:

Simply creating life doesn't make one a god- humans may go on to create a new level of existence some day- and wouldn't those beings we created, if they could not identify us directly, think of us as gods?

From and omniscient point of view, you're dead on. But the fact of the matter is, we're in the 1st person perspective when it comes to that issue. So we can never make the claim either way, because there will be never be enough evidence for or against the concept of God unless He physically interacts and spells it out for everything on Earth.

Quote:

Pardon my idiocy, but what exactly IS the "conclusive claim"?

To say "Yes, God exists." or "No, God does not exist".

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[Message index]

		Why do you think? By: Vitaminous on Wed, 09 April 2003 13:23
		Re: Why do you think? By: Nodbugger on Wed, 09 April 2003 13:26
		Why do you think? By: Vitaminous on Wed, 09 April 2003 13:29
		Why do you think? By: Commando no. 448 on Wed, 09 April 2003 13:34
		Why do you think? By: MrBob on Wed, 09 April 2003 20:22
		Re: Why do you think? By: [sg]the0ne on Wed, 09 April 2003 21:53
		Re: Why do you think? By: K9Trooper on Thu, 10 April 2003 04:22
		Re: Why do you think? By: Duke of Nukes on Thu, 10 April 2003 19:13
		Re: Why do you think? By: spotelmo on Fri, 11 April 2003 02:56
		Why do you think? By: Vitaminous on Sat, 12 April 2003 15:37
		Why do you think? By: Nodbugger on Sat, 12 April 2003 15:58
		Why do you think? By: Demolition man on Sun, 13 April 2003 05:07
		Why do you think? By: NHJ BV on Sun, 13 April 2003 11:25
		Why do you think? By: Vitaminous on Sun, 13 April 2003 12:22
		Why do you think? By: Commando no. 448 on Sun, 13 April 2003 14:53
		Why do you think? By: Nodbugger on Sun, 13 April 2003 15:07
		Why do you think? By: Demolition man on Mon, 14 April 2003 06:50
		Why do you think? By: Vitaminous on Mon, 14 April 2003 07:24
		Why do you think? By: KIRBY098 on Mon, 14 April 2003 09:44
		Why do you think? By: K9Trooper on Mon, 14 April 2003 12:24
		Why do you think? By: bigwig992 on Mon, 14 April 2003 17:58
		Why do you think? By: setstyle on Sat, 26 July 2003 15:57
		Why do you think? By: setstyle on Sat, 26 July 2003 18:57
		Why do you think? By: Yano on Sat, 26 July 2003 19:05
		Why do you think? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 29 July 2003 14:04
		Why do you think? By: TheMouse on Tue, 29 July 2003 14:10
		Why do you think? By: setstyle on Tue, 29 July 2003 16:34
		Why do you think? By: MrBob on Tue, 29 July 2003 17:01
		Why do you think? By: setstyle on Tue, 29 July 2003 17:05
		Why do you think? By: Azrielstoneheart on Tue, 05 August 2003 10:46
		Why do you think? By: setstyle on Tue, 05 August 2003 19:51
		If there is no God By: Brutus on Sat, 10 January 2004 11:32
		Why do you think? By: SkitBra on Sat, 10 January 2004 12:08
		Why do you think? By: Brutus on Sat, 10 January 2004 13:30
		Why do you think? By: Javaxcx on Sat, 10 January 2004 14:20
		Finally an intelligent post! By: Brutus on Sat, 10 January 2004 16:04
		Why do you think? By: Javaxcx on Sat, 10 January 2004 16:12
		Why do you think? By: Brutus on Sat, 10 January 2004 16:28
		Why do you think? By: Javaxcx on Sat, 10 January 2004 16:49
		Why do you think? By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 10 January 2004 20:19
		Why do you think? By: Javaxcx on Sun, 11 January 2004 14:49
		Why do you think? By: NukeIt15 on Sun, 11 January 2004 16:05
		Why do you think? By: Javaxcx on Sun, 11 January 2004 16:48
		Why do you think? By: warranto on Sun, 11 January 2004 19:41
		Why do you think? By: setstyle on Sun, 11 January 2004 20:25
		Why do you think? By: Javaxcx on Sun, 11 January 2004 20:44
		Why do you think? By: NukeIt15 on Sun, 11 January 2004 22:21
		Why do you think? By: warranto on Sun, 11 January 2004 22:51
		Why do you think? By: SkitBra on Mon, 12 January 2004 00:01
		Why do you think? By: warranto on Mon, 12 January 2004 01:51
		Why do you think? By: Brutus on Mon, 12 January 2004 08:12
		Why do you think? By: xpontius on Mon, 12 January 2004 10:39
		Why do you think? By: Javaxcx on Mon, 12 January 2004 13:45
		Why do you think? By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 12 January 2004 14:11
		Why do you think? By: warranto on Mon, 12 January 2004 14:25
		Why do you think? By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 12 January 2004 16:30
		Why do you think? By: ohmybad on Tue, 13 January 2004 14:35
		Why do you think? By: setstyle on Tue, 13 January 2004 15:04
		Why do you think? By: warranto on Tue, 13 January 2004 18:45
		Why do you think? By: ohmybad on Tue, 13 January 2004 19:10
		Why do you think? By: setstyle on Tue, 13 January 2004 19:57
		Why do you think? By: Javaxcx on Wed, 14 January 2004 17:31
		Why do you think? By: Renx on Thu, 15 January 2004 06:59
		Why do you think? By: warranto on Thu, 15 January 2004 11:06
		Why do you think? By: Javaxcx on Fri, 16 January 2004 06:13
		Why do you think? By: NukeIt15 on Fri, 16 January 2004 13:27
		Why do you think? By: warranto on Fri, 16 January 2004 13:48
		Why do you think? By: NukeIt15 on Fri, 16 January 2004 18:07
		Why do you think? By: warranto on Fri, 16 January 2004 20:01
		Why do you think? By: SomeRhino on Fri, 16 January 2004 22:56
		Why do you think? By: Javaxcx on Sat, 17 January 2004 08:38

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