| I'm am seriously pissed off now about the Matrix. [message #54500] |
Sun, 09 November 2003 11:49  |
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Slicer_238
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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I stayed the night at my friend's house to go see Revolutions today. Well he owns the Animatrix and decided to show me two things on it. Reniassance I and Reniassance II. Well these were made by the W..I forgot how to spell their name, but anywho it was made by them and animated by some guy. Well there are three big ass loop holes in it that actually destroy the possiblity of the first Matrix movie being made. I wil lstate them if anyone is curious but I won't until then. It will destroy your liking of the Matrix.
May Trey rest in forever bliss and happiness.
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| I'm am seriously pissed off now about the Matrix. [message #54528] |
Sun, 09 November 2003 13:48  |
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Slicer_238
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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Alright.
It shows the humans unleashing a nuclear onsluaght onto 01 which is were all the machiens live. Nuclear bombs pulsate an emp when they go off so that would of powered down all the robots. There were no sub levels told of and underground buildings were not said because that city was made to be peaceful.
If they someone how managed to survive that there was the turning battle were the machines managed to kill the human forces coming at them. Well during that fight another nuclear weapon went off in the fight and would of pulsated an emp knocking out all the machines.
Then the last one when the one robot is telling the UN peopel to give up their flesh, I don;t care robot or not the humans still had the ability to launch all of their nuclear weapons off and blew Earth into oblivion which would the US alone has enough nukes to blow up Earth 10+ times.
If every human country realized they were toast there would of been a nuclear apocalypse and the Earth would cease to be.
My friend is a Matrix fanatic and this had him stumped.
May Trey rest in forever bliss and happiness.
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| I'm am seriously pissed off now about the Matrix. [message #54531] |
Sun, 09 November 2003 14:20 |
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Walrus
Messages: 382
Registered: February 2003
Location: Good old England
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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The matrix is a glide short story that should not be looked at too hard. The way it is written is floored and was only meant to be a one off short made to make you think. The second two are pretty much hashed together, the animatrix are not even worth talking about, although I did like the second renaissance 1 and 2 and the animation in the 'the kid' was something I didn’t expect. It made me smile.
This story like all others can be taken apart and put in to its basic plot, situation, narration, opener, closer...add in a antagonist and religious sub plot as needed ,all the bits that go in to the writing. Believe it or not there is even a script as was to what bits go where and an explanation for them.
The Matrix could never have been a book, there isn’t enough in it to write one. A short story yes, but nothing more then 50 pages. The whole lot could go in to one short volume.
Enjoy them for what they are, don’t look too close.
One Last Time
"England expects that every man will do his duty"
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| I'm am seriously pissed off now about the Matrix. [message #54543] |
Sun, 09 November 2003 15:08 |
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Walrus
Messages: 382
Registered: February 2003
Location: Good old England
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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Do you think so? I always look at it from both sides of the coin, from both the reader and the writer. Don’t misunderstand me, I like the Matrix, it was a good film. A good story. But when I get home that’s all it is, something that some one wrote, as easy to take apart as any other i have looked at. There can be as much speculation as you want, about how it ended, and all the things between, but in the end if it wasn’t in the script then there is no way to know.
Although, if you would like to explain your understanding...Please be my guest...
One Last Time
"England expects that every man will do his duty"
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| I'm am seriously pissed off now about the Matrix. [message #54583] |
Sun, 09 November 2003 20:41 |
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Slicer_238
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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No, I know a nuke generates I want to say abotu a half a mile or mile radius emp becasuse I'm not exactly sure. But its an emp regardless and would still affect the machines.
May Trey rest in forever bliss and happiness.
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| I'm am seriously pissed off now about the Matrix. [message #54606] |
Mon, 10 November 2003 05:16 |
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Walrus
Messages: 382
Registered: February 2003
Location: Good old England
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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Sarcasm always take the place the place of intelligent conversation.
Did you read the synopsis of any of those? Because any one can do a quick search and come up with much better resource material then those. And no there is still not enough thought or material to go in to a book. If you look closely those volumes are but swinging off the Matrix's nuts, you even missed a few, my favorite is 'becoming the one.' All of them are utter crap, not one of them would help write anything. None of them are really connected or have anything to do with the original drafters and screen writers who put the first script together. Please don’t tell me you thought other wise. Its always best to be careful with your research material.
The matrix would make a graphic Novel, a good one too. But that's as far from paragraphs and chapters of a good read. 10,000 words is a hard mark to hit with stuff like that. A graphic Novel (of which I have a few) is just a set of stills with speech bubbles and have only a small amount of depth to the story (my favouet line is from an alien story ‘But I do know a son of a bitch when I’m looking at one) - they glide across it - this is why I called the matrix in my post 'A glide short story' Or didn’t you notice that in my post or even knew what that meant?
Open any book. Lets see 'Neuromancer' now. Lets start with dialogue.
You will see, blocks of paragraphs, Now for most of them you get one or two words and a block of character related description/narration. 'See the rules below.' You will also notice the way the dialogue is put together, always should 'she said/he said follow and usually a little description - 'she said, edgeing away a little further.'
now I know this isn’t what you expected, but I do this for a living.
Here we see the characters prattle on about what ever it is that troubles them, their feelings, all the other 'bullshit' things that have to go in. Depending on the author, and what type he/she is, there are varying amounts and diffractions between the description and dialogue, books written in the last 20 years tend to be driven toward 'Bullshit' which is a pretty term used to describe the overuse Dialogue and narration.
-alot of scfi and fantasy writers have missed this 'Bullshit' trend. One of the most notable being Steven king in the dark tower books, and Frank Herbert (godresthim) who wrote Dune(, although most people have only read the first two- personally I think the last two were better, and God emperor made me grin. Long live the face dancers!)
Now lets look at the film. There is only enough dialogue to fill 20 pages, the rest is a mixture of situation - hard to get right - situation description - these are mainly pan shots and the wordless moments - these are easy to write (think about the squids as they glided toward the ship as neo lay helpless trapped within the Matrix, running for his life.)
Now take your book, and this is that hard part. I want you to count the number of scenes- the whole book. That will take you a while - now if you have the Matrix script handy count the same in that, and you will notice something funny, there aren’t that many. And all of them are very short. The content is low.
ok lets try and hit this head on, 'Yeah...definitely not enough content to make a book, eh? ' To this I say, You have never written a book in your life.
Because there are a few rules.
- Description
- Narration
- Dialogue
- Plot
- Opener
- Closer
DON'T MIX, BUT DO CONNECT!
and of course the younger ones,
-situation description
-plot description.
and the three that I added for my own use.
- Money talks bullshit walks
- Too much meaningful bullshit drowns the plot
- Books are 10% truth 90% bullshit.
Most of the film struggles to meet them and I will tell you why.
Those are the rules. They can only be put together in certain orders, and if you don’t believe me - check the little book your holding. Although not iron clad, I’ve not met any one who doesn’t use them, in one form or another. Check for your self.
Now lets get back on to Dialogue, look up at the 'the rules' and then at the book your holding. You will see that 'Dialogue' and 'Plot' are pretty much the same thing. You can’t add to one with out adding to the other. If you add dialogue you move the story, and that moves and alters the plot, if you added dialogue to the Matrix, you would have to add the description that comes with it and thus alters the plot. The same goes if you alter the plot. The first matrix was so good because it didn’t bog the story down - it glided - to write a Matrix book would be to add too much and risk changing it from what it was in to something harder.
I'm not saying it can't be done. But remember one thing - no book has ever gone to film a 100% (,no not even the god father, and if you read it you would know why,) and no good book ever came from a good film. If you don’t believe me You should start with 'Jurassic park by Michael Crichton' to start - then 'Dune by frank Herbert, there was a mini series for the first few books' then 'Do androids dream of electric sheep by Philip K.Dick, look up blade runner' Those are just the ones of the top of my head and that would give you the better chance of seeing and reading, I can think of 20 others, both from book to film, and film to book.
Now do you want me to go threw the other rules with you? Do you want me to go threw the first film bit by bit, because I can. It's not hard and would only take me 2 or three hours.
- Hell If you start a thread starting a short about the matrix keeping it as close the first film as possible, I will write it with you. That’s easy for me. We can even go threw the other films and have one big happy FanBoy punch up. All the mistakes, plot holes, continuation errors, all of it.
But I would rather enjoy the films for what they are.
One Last Time
"England expects that every man will do his duty"
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| I'm am seriously pissed off now about the Matrix. [message #54623] |
Mon, 10 November 2003 09:18 |
fl00d3d
Messages: 1108
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Viva la Resistance! |
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I try to stay out of these sorts of subjects, but I'm a Matrix lover, so I had to at least read the conversations.
I found the following while searching for support for Blazer (cuz I agreed with him about the range of an EMP). However, I found something other than what I had hoped to. In either case, here are the facts:
"The electromagnetic pulse generated by the detonation of a single nuclear weapon at high altitudes can be a threat to military systems located as much as a thousand miles away. HEMP can disable communications systems and even power grids at enormous distances from the burst. This type of threat could be used by a third world country that has the capability to launch a rocket carrying a high-yield device (about 1 megaton or more) a few hundred kilometers into the upper atmosphere and a few thousand kilometers from its own territory (to avoid damaging its own systems). "
Full article at: http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/effects.htm
One thing I also wanted to point out to Slicer_238. You said, "Then the last one when the one robot is telling the UN peopel to give up their flesh, I don;t care robot or not the humans still had the ability to launch all of their nuclear weapons off and blew Earth into oblivion which would the US alone has enough nukes to blow up Earth 10+ times. " earlier ...
Now I may be taking a stab into the dark here, but didn't they claim in the movies that "the world was united in their marvel ... they gave birth to AI" So before AI got to the point where they rebelled and started a war, wasn't man united into a single "government"? I don't think the humans ever intended to annihilate the planet (because that would defeat their purpose of the war. They want to survive!). I think they intended to deprive the AI of their sunlight which they needed.
** DO NOT READ THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN REVOLUTIONS!! ** It may reveal more than you wish to know at this point.
The machines, I'm sure, understood EMP and its threat to their existance. As I am sure the creators of AI understood. Even in the movies you see examples of the AI fearing the almighty EMP. Towards the middle-to-end of Revolutions you notice the ship struggling to return with their last EMP. The machines, knowing this, were re-ordered to keep those gates closed at all costs. Even after they apparently survived the first wave of attacks by the machines, the machines returned with a stronger wave after they were sure the humans were defenseless. This just proves their knowledge of the human defense system.
** ====DONE WITH THE POTENTIAL SPOILER === **
Just an argument. I'm not really taking either side for sure as I have not seen all of the Animatrix episodes. However, the points I made above I feel are valid and should be debated.
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| I'm am seriously pissed off now about the Matrix. [message #54625] |
Mon, 10 November 2003 09:23 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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And electronics CAN be shielded from EMP.
Military hardware is heavily shielded for just that reason. NORAD isn't buried deep for just surface attack reasons. Granite blocks EMP bursts, just as well as it blocks electronic radio transmissions.
Deleted
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| I'm am seriously pissed off now about the Matrix. [message #54660] |
Mon, 10 November 2003 13:03 |
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IceSword7
Messages: 603
Registered: February 2003
Location: NY
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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If you want a loop hole in the matrix movies well then listen to this.
In the first movie when the guy that wanted to be put back into the matrix for exchange for the pass codes to zion (sorry i forgot his name).
Toward the middle of the movie (before ne0 goes to see the orical), him and ne0 have a talk about the matrix and things (He asks him if he wanted a drink from the bucket and he was telling him about how he could read the text on the screen) He says "why didnt i take the red pill" then he says "a little word of advice for you, you see an agent you run."
well the very next seen is him having dinner with an agent. K theres the loop hole. How did he get into the matrix to talk to the agent, then how did he get back out with out?
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