Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Matrix Revolutions **SPOILERS INSIDE**
| Matrix Revolutions **SPOILERS INSIDE** [message #54012] |
Wed, 05 November 2003 17:48  |
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Crimson
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
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These questions are for Frijud. If anyone can help me fill in the blanks, please do.
1. How did Neo defeat agent Smith?
Um, he and Trinity flew to the machine city (01) and Neo spoke to the Deus Ex Machina which was this big machine with a face made of sentinel-like things. He told them that Smith would destroy the Matrix and only he (Neo) could stop it. The machines agreed to end the war if Neo succeeded. He was jacked in by the machines and met up with Smith who had inhabited pretty much every single person/program in the Matrix, up to and including the Oracle. They got into a huge brawl spanning city streets, abandoned buildings, and zero gravity. Finally Neo succumbs to Smith and Smith infects him. The machines read the virus/Smith code and quickly determine how to destroy it/him and all the Smiths explode in white light and become the people they once were. I'm basing some of this on my interpretations.
2. Did that one guy get the "eye of the orcle" and return Neo?
The Merovingian is holding Neo at the start of the movie. He wants the eyes of the Oracle in exchange for Neo. Trinity manages to get herself in a position to kill the Merovingian at the cost of her own life but he decides to let him free to save his own life. That's in the first 30 minutes of the movie then we don't see/hear from him anymore.
3. How did Neo destroy/stop all the sentanals outside the matrix?
I don't believe this is clear. He uses this ability even more in the real world in the movie.
4. Does Zion get destroyed?
The dock is pretty much destroyed, several die, but Zion survives and so do most of the inhabitants.
5. Does the Matrix get destroyed?
Unclear. The architect talks to the Oracle (who is the mother of the matrix) at the very end and mentions something about freeing the "others", but I don't know if that's all humans or what. Blazer thinks that since the war is over, he will free all humans who are essentially POWs.
6. Does Morphious get the girl?
Pretty much. No kissing or anything, but their old memories and some trying experiences draw them back together.
7. What happens to the Archatech?
We see him at the end. I don't remember a lot of what they talked about. Maybe someone else can fill this in.
8. Can frijud actually spell?
Nope.
9. What happens to the guy that Agent Smith takes over in the real world?
This was awesome. He wakes up around the time Neo gets out of the Merovingian's hold, and the actor talked and acted JUST like Hugo Weaving. He stowed away aboard the Logos (Niobe's ship) when Neo and Trinity took it to go to the Machine city. (Niobe and the crews of the Neb and the Logos flew back on the Hammer, which is the ship that rescued them at the end of Reloaded) Once Trinity and Neo are ready to go, Bane trips a fuse and attacks Trinity when she comes to fix it. He uses her as bait to get Neo in the back of the ship with a gun. Trinity is thrown below where the fuses are and locked in while Neo and Bane battle. There's a lack of Kung Fu in the real world.  They wrestle over the gun and Neo is blinded. Bane/Smith thinks he's won, but Neo can still see his essence in a golden glow and uses that to back Bane into a corner. Shortly after, Neo gets into position with a pole and knocks Bane's head off.
10. How is the battle between the the mechwarrors and the sentanals?
Awesome. Zion put up one hell of a fight.
I'm the bawss.
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| Matrix Revolutions **SPOILERS INSIDE** [message #54014] |
Wed, 05 November 2003 17:54  |
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England
Messages: 618
Registered: February 2003
Location: High Wycombe, England
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Colonel |
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5. Does the Matrix get destroyed?
Unclear. The architect talks to the Oracle (who is the mother of the matrix) at the very end and mentions something about freeing the "others", but I don't know if that's all humans or what. Blazer thinks that since the war is over, he will free all humans who are essentially POWs.
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I do believe this one sets it up for a fourth film, also you dont see Neo die, you just see him being taken away by a machine..
In the end it doesn't matter if you are who you say you are. You will still mean nothing to me.
When i have kids, everytime i drive past a fast food restaurant, im gonna punch my kid in the face, then they'll never wanna come..
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| Matrix Revolutions **SPOILERS INSIDE** [message #54017] |
Wed, 05 November 2003 18:01 |
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boma57
Messages: 581
Registered: April 2003
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Colonel |
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I just got back from seeing it and despite what others have said, I will defend to all ends my opinion that it was awesome.
As for my take on the end...
Peace was finally achieved. By giving his life to save the machines from Smith, Neo had proven that he truly wanted peace, and thus the machines honored their end of the deal. When the Architect is talking to the Oracle, she asks him about "those who want to be set free", and the Architect says that they will indeed be set free. So, what's that mean? Well, obviously they can't just let everyone out of the Matrix at once...people wouldn't believe it. So my take is that they leave the Matrix up, and let people come and go as the choose. When they feel they're ready for the real world, they can just leave. Just as well, the exiles can choose to stay in the Matrix if they wish.
As for how Neo destroyed Smith...Neo was the One, and thus Smith was the "Negative" One so to speak. They were opposites, and in order to get rid of Smith, Neo had to sacrifice himself. The only way to turn -1 into 0 is to add 1.  Once taken over by Smith, Neo was still "present" inside. He then had access to the collective mind of Smith and could destroy them all, destroying himself in the process, though.
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| Matrix Revolutions **SPOILERS INSIDE** [message #54019] |
Wed, 05 November 2003 18:05 |
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boma57
Messages: 581
Registered: April 2003
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Colonel |
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| England |
I do believe this one sets it up for a fourth film, also you dont see Neo die, you just see him being taken away by a machine..
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We saw him die in the Matrix. They could do a sequel, but it wouldn't be good because of the lack of conflict. The war is over, so they'd have to introduce a new problem which would undoubtedly be at least somewhat cheesy. 
| TheGunrun |
Is there any room for a sequil? It would be nice to see an after math kind of thing. Maybe the second level of the matrix is real.
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Like I said above, there's a very slim chance of a sequel, but what is more probable is a [live-action] prequel of when the machines took over. I doubt that we'll see either, though.
Also, in an interview in TV Guide, one of the actors (I believe it was Jada Pinkett-Smith) said that the Wachowskis are very clear with what they do. The whole thing is filled with metaphors, but the story is clear-cut. The real world is the real world, and the Matrix is the Matrix.
[Updated on: Wed, 05 November 2003 18:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| My Matrix Revolutions Questions *** Caution Spoilers *** [message #54032] |
Wed, 05 November 2003 19:03 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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Here are some questions I have after seeing the movie this morning. Crimson and I are seeing it again tonight, after which I may have some answers. I threw some random thoughts in as well.
1. Is Neo really "the one", or is it the girl/child? In the first movie, Morpheus says "When the Matrix was first built, there was a man born inside who had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake the Matrix as he saw fit". Now we have seen Neo do lots of superhuman stuff involving speed and strength, and even using telekenesis, not to mention bringing Trinity back to life...but he has done no "remaking the Matrix". All of Neos powers seem to be centered around him, and he does not have the power to remake the actual Matrix. The girl however, created the sunrise...so maybe she is "the one"?
2. If the machine city is the real world, how come it was all shown in code (gold code just like Seraph)?
3. Why does that one Sentinel go through the ship and through Neos body? Note #2 and #3 assume the "matrix within a matrix" theory is not in effect.
4. Smith remembers beating Neo before..all the way to the end...the only reason things changed and Smith didn't win was because Neo was assisted by Deus Ex Machina....so what does this mean? In the previous 5 instances of the Matrix, did Smith fight and kill the exact same Neo? Or were they other "ones". How did the previous versions of the Matrix end...Smith defeats Neo, and then everything resets? Smith makes it VERY clear that at least he believes he "remembers" all of this happening before, and that he will be victorious.
5. Where were the machines taking Neo at the end? His "body" (nothing indicated he is dead) was placed on the back of one of those large machines and they were bringing him somewhere...were they returning him to Zion or....?
6. The trainman must be a programmer or debugger if he can create and control loops (the train stop was a loop...as seen by Neo running out one side and coming in the other, and the train had "LOOP" on it).
7. Seraph is an "angel". The vampire dudes called him "Wingless". I guess he is a guardian angel of the Oracle.
8. Why the hell doesn't Zion just build some "EMP Towers" in the dock area so they can just hit a button and zap stuff rather than depend on some ship to come fly in and do it
9. Where the fuck are the twins??? They didn't die in Reloaded...they were cool dammit!
10. This is the first time Neo has declined candy from the Oracle...hmmmm.
11. The Oracle tells the girl they will see Neo again sometime...did she mean THE Neo, or the next "one"?
12. The system seems to want to exterminate exiles. They wanted to delete the keymaker badly, so why don't they go after other exiles like the Merovingian, all the vampires, etc?
13. Speaking of exiles, Smith calls the girl the "last exile"...did he mean last as in the latest? The vampires and people of club hel are definitely exiles, as exiles were definined by the oracle as either obsolete programs that are hiding in the matrix from deletion, or ones doing "things they are not supposed to do"...she specifically mentioned angels and vampires.
14. The trainman indicated that Neo was sent to Mobil Ave by the merovingian...so where was he/his mind between the time he collapsed from destroying the four sentinels and when the trainman dumped him at Mobil Ave (we never actually see him get dumped there, he just wakes up there).
15. The girl/child is the first program that does not have a purpose. Is this the beginning of the machines having the ability to make choices?
16. Why don't the machines put some towers or solar panels above the clouds where its nice and sunny....okay maybe not they were pretty darn high up there, and flying through the black could layer not only zapped the sentinels but the engines of the ship.
17. If there is no matrix within a matrix, why was neo able to feel the humans below as they passed over the fields? That combined with 01 being shown in gold code (even when not viewed from Neos point of view), seems to support the matrix within a matrix theory. If there IS a matrix within a matrix, then when/where/what is the real world? I guess this is the time you ask "what is real".
Okay I'm done for now...after seeing it again I will probably have some answers as well as more questions
http://www.renevo.com | 
http://strike-team.net/forums/ | XWIS Forums
http://www.n00bstories.com | Crimson is the 0wnage, and I Love her!
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| Matrix Revolutions **SPOILERS INSIDE** [message #54036] |
Wed, 05 November 2003 19:35 |
hareman
Messages: 340
Registered: May 2003
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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I just wanted to enjoy it
!. No humans left in the matrix so now the programs can runit as they see fit
2. Neo sees into a deeper level of reality.
3. Wait a bit
4. It was really all inevitable Smith was just playing his role in what was preordained
5. They returning him to the source I suppose a in a literal sense
6. Some of the programs could alter the matrix as in the bombs in the Merovingians building
7. Seraph is short for seraphafim an angel as in guardian you have this right
8. Emp disables everything and is only used as a last ditch defense
9. The twins are blown to kingdom come (hehe) in the SUV explosion
10. She misssed his choice she cannot see beyond her own choice that she didn't understand
11. Neo drew his power from the 'source' are they letting us believe that is something beyond the machine world Idunno
12. Possibly because they were serving a purpose. The key maker had to lead Neo to the right door at the right time did he do this for Noe's predessecors?
this is enough for now I just wanted to enjoy it
[Updated on: Wed, 05 November 2003 20:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: My Matrix Revolutions Questions *** Caution Spoilers ** [message #54050] |
Wed, 05 November 2003 20:48 |
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boma57
Messages: 581
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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1. Neo is the one. Anytime he's stop bullets or any super-human martial arts he's remaking the Matrix by redefining the laws of the code to suit him. He just never made any drastic changes.
2. The gold code/light is representative of Neo's newfound ability to extend his powers beyond the Matrix and sense things in the real world.
3. No idea. Perhaps that sentinel had already exploded, and what we saw in Code-Vision was just it's "ghost" passing through the ship?
4. Yes, Smith was most likely having Deja Vu references to the previous times he'd defeated Neo.
5. They could've been taking him anywhere depending on whether you believe he's alive or not. To a burial site? To Zion to be buried? To a medical facility? To a funeral pyre?
6. Merovingian is an exile and he programmed the cake, so I'm sure the trainman can be a programmer too Nice job spotting "loop" on the train, I didn't.
7. Also nice catch, I didn't notice that.
8. Like Locke said, would it be worth frying all their own machinery? Contrary to games like Generals, machinery wouldn't come back online after a set time. If they set one of those off, all their systems would be fried permanently.
9. Just because they phased out, it doesn't mean they survived. Perhaps when they die, they just phase out like that.
10. He was hungry for answers, not candy
11. Probably Neo. If the Matrix is destroyed, why the need for another one? I'd heard the following theory before but hadn't yet associated it with Revolutions until someone pointed it out to me...Neo sacrificed himself to save humanity, and even died in a cross-shaped position. Then, the oracle says he'll return. It doesn't take long to put two and two together
12. I'm sure they did, that's probably why Merovingian wanted the keymaker, to use his backdoors for convenient excapse.
13. If the war is over and there is no need for the Matrix any longer, there would be no need to continue creating programs. Thus, the girl would be the last exile if there were no more new programs to be exiled.
14. No dea
15. She's not the first. Merovingian? All the other exiles? They may have had a purpose at one point, but not any longer. I know what you mean, though. But just because it's the first time we hear machines speak of love, it does not mean that it is the first time it has occured.
16. They don't need it, they have Energizer-Humans After the peace though, I'd assume there would be collaboration to clear the sky.
17. Once again, the gold code/light is representative of Neo's carry-over abilities and the ability to sense things outside of the Matrix. Just because we're shown a few scenes from that perspective that are not exactly Neo's perspective doesn't mean anything. They wanted to show Neo walking down the hall in Code-vision. Wouldn't have looked too good in first person, so they made it third
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| Matrix Revolutions **SPOILERS INSIDE** [message #54072] |
Thu, 06 November 2003 03:25 |
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England
Messages: 618
Registered: February 2003
Location: High Wycombe, England
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| frijud |
Thanks Crimmy, That write was most enlightening. I feel more prepared to watch the movie now, and know more what to look for. I will only get one chance to see it, so I want to make the most of it.
Thanks again.
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Dude :\
That ruined the film!
They are all pretty easy to notice and find out, and the film does tie up most of the looseend and generals "WTF?!" Matrix questions.
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We saw him die in the Matrix. They could do a sequel, but it wouldn't be good because of the lack of conflict. The war is over, so they'd have to introduce a new problem which would undoubtedly be at least somewhat cheesy.
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Taximas, cheesy it may be, or maybe not.
But What is with the distraction story of the next 'last exile' - The little asian girl Seta, its not a huge part, but it makes you think, Why is the last exile a program? And why is she able to control the matrix at 6 years old?
In the end it doesn't matter if you are who you say you are. You will still mean nothing to me.
When i have kids, everytime i drive past a fast food restaurant, im gonna punch my kid in the face, then they'll never wanna come..
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| Re: Matrix Revolutions **SPOILERS INSIDE** [message #54076] |
Thu, 06 November 2003 04:24 |
djlaptop
Messages: 160
Registered: February 2003
Location: Hollywood, CA, USA
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Crimson |
1. How did Neo defeat agent Smith?
Um, he and Trinity flew to the machine city (01) and Neo spoke to the Deus Ex Machina which was this big machine with a face made of sentinel-like things. He told them that Smith would destroy the Matrix and only he (Neo) could stop it. The machines agreed to end the war if Neo succeeded. He was jacked in by the machines and met up with Smith who had inhabited pretty much every single person/program in the Matrix, up to and including the Oracle. They got into a huge brawl spanning city streets, abandoned buildings, and zero gravity. Finally Neo succumbs to Smith and Smith infects him. The machines read the virus/Smith code and quickly determine how to destroy it/him and all the Smiths explode in white light and become the people they once were. I'm basing some of this on my interpretations.
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I interpreted this slightly differently. The machines knew that if Smith was not stopped, he would spread into ALL machines, not just the matrix. Kinda like if you have a firewall, but some motherfu(%#er with a laptop plugs into your LAN and infects your whole network with msblast. Once Neo was no longer standing in his way, Smith would essentially destroy both worlds.
This doesn't make much sense, as I don't think that realistically machines would care about that. They have no motivations other than survival, and the overwriting of their "firmware" by Smith doesn't affect their survival at all.
Anyhow, Neo defeated Smith by not defeating him. He realized that beating Smith wouldn't help, because there are a zillion other Smiths. The Oracle told Neo that Smith is his opposite - he is the equasion attempting to balance itself out. Recall that when Smith takes over a body, he becomes the sum of himself and that body, which is how he was able to know about Sati's cookie conversation, and the Oracle's "everything that has a beginning has an end" speech. Basic math tells us that the sum of anything and its opposite is 0. By taking over Neo, he became 0, which allowed the machines to finally remove him from the equasion.
| Crimson |
3. How did Neo destroy/stop all the sentanals outside the matrix?
I don't believe this is clear. He uses this ability even more in the real world in the movie.
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I stand by my "EMP built into the body" theory, a slightly modified version anyway... Neo was manufactured by the machines for the sole purpose of control. Because of this, he HAD to have been designed differently from everyone else - I believe he was built with hardware capable of wireless matrix access. Technically this is all that he needed to issue self-destruct commands to the sentinels. This also is how he ended up in the train station and matrix without a hardline.
What disappoints me, however, is that we have to speculate. This should have been answered in Revolutions.
| Crimson |
5. Does the Matrix get destroyed?
Unclear. The architect talks to the Oracle (who is the mother of the matrix) at the very end and mentions something about freeing the "others", but I don't know if that's all humans or what. Blazer thinks that since the war is over, he will free all humans who are essentially POWs.
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The Oracle and the Architect (who never did meet Neo again, hehe), in the last scene of the film, discuss the future of the matrix. Obviously the machines can't survive without the humans in the matrix. Obviously, there is no "peace" as long as the humans are kept against their will. They discussed freeing "the others," and I interpret that to mean that those who want out of the matrix can get out without all the hassle. The people that are unaware of the matrix and are perfectly happy within it will remain.
Also, you should notice that in this scene, which takes place in the matrix, it is missing its green tinge.
| Crimson |
6. Does Morphious get the girl?
Pretty much. No kissing or anything, but their old memories and some trying experiences draw them back together.
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I don't know about this. They definitely go through an ordeal together, but it's very unclear as to whether or not they'll get back together romantically. Anyway, who cares!? This was not a story about the relationship between Niobe and Morpheus.
| Crimson |
7. What happens to the Archatech?
We see him at the end. I don't remember a lot of what they talked about. Maybe someone else can fill this in.
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The architect sulks off. He is obviously upset at the way things went down, because it means he failed. He must, however, abide by the peace agreement, and he hates it.
| Crimson |
9. What happens to the guy that Agent Smith takes over in the real world?
This was awesome. He wakes up around the time Neo gets out of the Merovingian's hold, and the actor talked and acted JUST like Hugo Weaving.
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I thought about this... The way he/Smith spoke is pretty much how you would expect a machine with AI to speak. Very well spoken, each word carefully selected and extremely deliberate. No "uh"s or "um"s, as machines don't make mistakes like that. Perfect diction, verbose accuracy, and well thought out sentences are exactly what you'd expect.
| Crimson |
10. How is the battle between the the mechwarrors and the sentanals?
Awesome. Zion put up one hell of a fight.
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The Zion battle scene was one of the most visually stunning things I've ever seen on screen. It was even better than the Smith/Neo showdown (although there's a slo-mo punch by Neo that's pretty damn kewl too).
| England |
I do believe this one sets it up for a fourth film, also you dont see Neo die, you just see him being taken away by a machine..
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It is not made clear if Neo dies or not, BUT... At the end when we see the code of Neo being dragged away in the "Christ on the cross" position, he is all orange, just like he saw Bane and the rest of the machines, meaning he is all code (or machine) now.
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| Re: Matrix Revolutions **SPOILERS INSIDE** [message #54099] |
Thu, 06 November 2003 10:44 |
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XtremeGaming69
Messages: 39
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| djlaptop |
| Crimson |
1. How did Neo defeat agent Smith?
Um, he and Trinity flew to the machine city (01) and Neo spoke to the Deus Ex Machina which was this big machine with a face made of sentinel-like things. He told them that Smith would destroy the Matrix and only he (Neo) could stop it. The machines agreed to end the war if Neo succeeded. He was jacked in by the machines and met up with Smith who had inhabited pretty much every single person/program in the Matrix, up to and including the Oracle. They got into a huge brawl spanning city streets, abandoned buildings, and zero gravity. Finally Neo succumbs to Smith and Smith infects him. The machines read the virus/Smith code and quickly determine how to destroy it/him and all the Smiths explode in white light and become the people they once were. I'm basing some of this on my interpretations.
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I interpreted this slightly differently. The machines knew that if Smith was not stopped, he would spread into ALL machines, not just the matrix. Kinda like if you have a firewall, but some motherfu(%#er with a laptop plugs into your LAN and infects your whole network with msblast. Once Neo was no longer standing in his way, Smith would essentially destroy both worlds.
This doesn't make much sense, as I don't think that realistically machines would care about that. They have no motivations other than survival, and the overwriting of their "firmware" by Smith doesn't affect their survival at all.
Anyhow, Neo defeated Smith by not defeating him. He realized that beating Smith wouldn't help, because there are a zillion other Smiths. The Oracle told Neo that Smith is his opposite - he is the equasion attempting to balance itself out. Recall that when Smith takes over a body, he becomes the sum of himself and that body, which is how he was able to know about Sati's cookie conversation, and the Oracle's "everything that has a beginning has an end" speech. Basic math tells us that the sum of anything and its opposite is 0. By taking over Neo, he became 0, which allowed the machines to finally remove him from the equasion.
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I believe your theory is correct, but inaccurate. Smith was what made the equation balanced. By removing Neo, he unbalanced it. The Architecht (sp?) said that he balanced all equations, since he couldn't create a flaw to balance the equation (remembering that the One wasn't something that was created on purpose, it was an anomily), it meant that he had to delete the equation altogether. Delete Smith.
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| Re: Matrix Revolutions **SPOILERS INSIDE** [message #54120] |
Thu, 06 November 2003 12:54 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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| djlaptop |
I interpreted this slightly differently. The machines knew that if Smith was not stopped, he would spread into ALL machines, not just the matrix. Kinda like if you have a firewall, but some motherfu(%#er with a laptop plugs into your LAN and infects your whole network with msblast. Once Neo was no longer standing in his way, Smith would essentially destroy both worlds.
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Yes, after seeing it a second time last night, this is what happened. Not just the Matrix, the machine world too.
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This doesn't make much sense, as I don't think that realistically machines would care about that. They have no motivations other than survival, and the overwriting of their "firmware" by Smith doesn't affect their survival at all.
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I disagree here. Their survival depends on their firmware. The machine world is based on artificial intelligence which is software, not biological carbon-based like we are.
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| Crimson |
3. How did Neo destroy/stop all the sentanals outside the matrix?
I don't believe this is clear. He uses this ability even more in the real world in the movie.
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I stand by my "EMP built into the body" theory, a slightly modified version anyway... Neo was manufactured by the machines for the sole purpose of control. Because of this, he HAD to have been designed differently from everyone else - I believe he was built with hardware capable of wireless matrix access. Technically this is all that he needed to issue self-destruct commands to the sentinels. This also is how he ended up in the train station and matrix without a hardline.
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I really don't think it's an EMP. When he stops the bombs, they explode. EMP doesn't do that. An EMP on those bombs would have caused them to drop from the sky... falling plus their previous forward momentum. He somehow disrupts their internals and they detonate (in the case of bombs) or sizzle and crash (in the case of sentinels).
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The Oracle and the Architect (who never did meet Neo again, hehe), in the last scene of the film, discuss the future of the matrix. Obviously the machines can't survive without the humans in the matrix. Obviously, there is no "peace" as long as the humans are kept against their will. They discussed freeing "the others," and I interpret that to mean that those who want out of the matrix can get out without all the hassle. The people that are unaware of the matrix and are perfectly happy within it will remain.
Also, you should notice that in this scene, which takes place in the matrix, it is missing its green tinge.
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Yes, I understood this discussion better the second time too. The Oracle asks the Architect specifically about the others who want to be free, not all the humans.
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The Zion battle scene was one of the most visually stunning things I've ever seen on screen. It was even better than the Smith/Neo showdown (although there's a slo-mo punch by Neo that's pretty damn kewl too).
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Agreed. The slo-mo punch looked a little Pixar the second time I saw it, but the Dock scene in Zion was top-notch. I don't even think 20 years from now we're going to be "That looks so fake!" like we do with Star Wars and Jaws.
I'm the bawss.
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