Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Matrix Revolutions
| Matrix Revolutions [message #50771] |
Wed, 08 October 2003 14:17   |
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boma57
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Registered: April 2003
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Colonel |
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| Crimson |
During the architect's speech, we've decided that he was basically telling Neo that the "Real World" isn't the real world at all, but merely another level of the Matrix for the people who figured out the existence of the first level. The people in the "Real World" are given that illusion of choice and think they are free.
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I interpreted that differently...
The way I saw it, the "real world" actually was real, but the people were still under the control of the machines simply by a sort of reverse psychology.
That does make more sense, though, because it also explains why Neo was able to stop the sentinels.
I wasn't able to realize that Bane was Smith in the second film, though, it took me until the trailer for the third to get it. 
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In the Revolutions trailer, it seems as though the Merovingian strikes a deal with Smith to somehow destroy the Oracle, and it looks like he succeeds, as in a different trailer we see a gleely laughing Smith in the Oracle's apartment.
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When Merovingian makes the deal, though, he says "Bring me the eyes of the oracle, and I shall give you back your savior", who has to be Neo. Now, obviously Smith would want Neo, but Merovingian wouldn't refer to him as Smith's "savior", so he must be talking with someone else.
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #50791] |
Wed, 08 October 2003 15:04 |
djlaptop
Messages: 160
Registered: February 2003
Location: Hollywood, CA, USA
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| Quote: |
During the architect's speech, we've decided that he was basically telling Neo that the "Real World" isn't the real world at all, but merely another level of the Matrix for the people who figured out the existence of the first level. The people in the "Real World" are given that illusion of choice and think they are free.
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I considered this possibility, but I don't think it's the case. Not because it's any more likely to be true within the context of the story, but because it would be bad writing on the Wachowski's part. It's been done in other movies, like the 13th Floor, but I think a lot of people in the Matrix community EXPECT it to be the case, and thus a good writer will write something different to catch these people off guard. Not that that makes any argument towards the validity of the theory... It's a perfectly good and valid idea, I just don't think it will be the case... It's too deus ex machina, too easy of a way out.
I also think that Neo's ability to stop the sentinels in the end of the second film obviously has something to do with him being "the one." Perhaps, biologically speaking, what it is that allows him to stop the sentinels also is the reason he is the anomoly in the matrix - Some kind of extended ability to control electromagnetic fields via the brain.
Perhaps one in a million is born with this ability, which can both defeat the sentinels, and facilitate the alteration of perception necessary for irregular manipulation of the matrix. Hence, one in a million becomes the eventual "systemic anomoly," AKA, The One.
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When Merovingian makes the deal, though, he says "Bring me the eyes of the oracle, and I shall give you back your savior", who has to be Neo. Now, obviously Smith would want Neo, but Merovingian wouldn't refer to him as Smith's "savior", so he must be talking with someone else.
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I believe The Merovingian was talking to Trinity at this point. Don't ask me why, just a gut. We'll see when the movie comes out.  [/quote]
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #50800] |
Wed, 08 October 2003 15:26 |
Homey
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General (1 Star) |
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I cant remember completely about this but...neo is someone who died a long time before, i can't remember which matrix its in but it has to do with the oracle or something. Maybe hes part machine in the real world :/
Homey
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #50827] |
Wed, 08 October 2003 19:02 |
djlaptop
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Location: Hollywood, CA, USA
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Zion was created 5 times, and destroyed 5 times.
Neo isn't a reincarnation of the previous "One," but rather he is a mathematical eventuality.
The Oracle has predictive abilities based on probability and statistics.
I just had a thought. Since humans are manufactured by machines, and have onboard hardware necessary to plug into the matrix, perhaps it's possible that they also have hardware that is capable of generating the kind of EMP Neo demonstrated in the destruction of the sentinels. Perhaps it just takes the right mind to activate.
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #50893] |
Thu, 09 October 2003 19:17 |
djlaptop
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| djlaptop |
I just had a thought. Since humans are manufactured by machines, and have onboard hardware necessary to plug into the matrix, perhaps it's possible that they also have hardware that is capable of generating the kind of EMP Neo demonstrated in the destruction of the sentinels. Perhaps it just takes the right mind to activate.
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I've chewed on this in my mind the last couple of days, and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Remember, in the end of Reloaded, the sentinel-counter attack by all the ships failed because of some sort of EMP blast happening too early and disabling the ships? My guess is that it was Bane (really Smith) activating this EMP hardware built into his body. If anyone would know how to tap into it, Smith, being from the machine world, would.
Guess we'll just have to wait and see, though.
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #50903] |
Thu, 09 October 2003 22:12 |
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Blazer
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General (3 Stars)
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[quote="djlaptop"]| Quote: |
I also think that Neo's ability to stop the sentinels in the end of the second film obviously has something to do with him being "the one." Perhaps, biologically speaking, what it is that allows him to stop the sentinels also is the reason he is the anomoly in the matrix - Some kind of extended ability to control electromagnetic fields via the brain.
Perhaps one in a million is born with this ability, which can both defeat the sentinels, and facilitate the alteration of perception necessary for irregular manipulation of the matrix. Hence, one in a million becomes the eventual "systemic anomoly," AKA, The One.
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One in a million? What about the 5 (6?) other versions of the Matrix, with their own systemic anomolies?
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #50904] |
Thu, 09 October 2003 22:14 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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| djlaptop |
| djlaptop |
I just had a thought. Since humans are manufactured by machines, and have onboard hardware necessary to plug into the matrix, perhaps it's possible that they also have hardware that is capable of generating the kind of EMP Neo demonstrated in the destruction of the sentinels. Perhaps it just takes the right mind to activate.
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I've chewed on this in my mind the last couple of days, and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Remember, in the end of Reloaded, the sentinel-counter attack by all the ships failed because of some sort of EMP blast happening too early and disabling the ships? My guess is that it was Bane (really Smith) activating this EMP hardware built into his body. If anyone would know how to tap into it, Smith, being from the machine world, would.
Guess we'll just have to wait and see, though.
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They made it pretty clear that a normal EMP was activated too early. I think the ships crew would notice if Bane emitted an EMP from his body
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #50924] |
Fri, 10 October 2003 06:49 |
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boma57
Messages: 581
Registered: April 2003
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Colonel |
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| Blazer |
| djlaptop |
I also think that Neo's ability to stop the sentinels in the end of the second film obviously has something to do with him being "the one." Perhaps, biologically speaking, what it is that allows him to stop the sentinels also is the reason he is the anomoly in the matrix - Some kind of extended ability to control electromagnetic fields via the brain.
Perhaps one in a million is born with this ability, which can both defeat the sentinels, and facilitate the alteration of perception necessary for irregular manipulation of the matrix. Hence, one in a million becomes the eventual "systemic anomoly," AKA, The One.
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One in a million? What about the 5 (6?) other versions of the Matrix, with their own systemic anomolies?
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Actually, the anomoly would be higher than one in a million. Everyone in the world is in the Matrix, and the Matrix is set around the time of today when the population of the world is 6 Billion people. Neo is the only One (during his time), so the chances are one in 6 billion
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #50951] |
Fri, 10 October 2003 11:39 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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Oh yes, the architect scene must be watched several times with several pauses for thought and discussion.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Matrix Revolutions [message #51198] |
Mon, 13 October 2003 14:02 |
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Krazyfoxx
Messages: 194
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Location: WV
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You need to edit your link. It starts with "htpp" and should be "http". Works fine that way  Also, those who haven't played Enter the Matrix are missing out on alot of the story.
Semper Fi
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #51276] |
Tue, 14 October 2003 09:35 |
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npsmith82
Messages: 525
Registered: February 2003
Location: England, UK
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Colonel |
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| snipesimo |
I agree that the oracle is most likely destroyed/transformed by smith due to his laughing scene.
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I'm not so sure, because the oracle was moved away to a safe place (a backdoor where Neo sat with her on the bench).
I think Agent Smith is lead to believe he killed the Oracle, but was in fact, someone/thing else.
WOL: npsmith82
For RenAutoComplete, RenSkirmish, RenBuddyList and RenWOLstatus please visit (IE) TheCodeSmith.com
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #51304] |
Tue, 14 October 2003 13:10 |
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boma57
Messages: 581
Registered: April 2003
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Colonel |
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Mmmm...Just bought Reloaded, watching it again now
It's the fourth time I've seen it, I (only) got to see it thrice in the theatre.
Some things worthy of noting (in the order they happen in the movie):
Spoilers El Grande Mucho Magna Summa
1. After Neo fights the first agents in the movie and Agent Smith walks in, he says "That went as expected. Yes, it's happening exactly as before...Well, not exactly."
2. There's one hundred years between when the first people of Zion were freed (Not for the first time, though...) and the time of Reloaded. This is something that I think doesn't click, though...The councilor in Reloaded has to be about 60-70, and therefore either his parents or grandparents were one of the ones originally chosen by the previous One to restart Zion...that can't be so far out of recent memory, can it? It's 2003, and the oldest man in America just died at 115. That means he was 12 in 1900...
3. The reason Smith controls Bane's body in the real world is because after taking over Bane's body in the Matrix, the phone rings and Smith picks it up. Since it was originally intended for Bane, Smith is delivered to Bane's body in the real world.
4. Perhaps it's the power of suggestion, the lighting or an intentional effect by the Wachowski's, but Bane even looks like Smith when we see him in the shadows right before he starts following Neo. He also makes special emphasis on "We'll see you.". Speaking for Zion, or speaking for all the Smiths?
5. Before Neo meets Merovingian, we see someone being escorted away and he looks at Neo...I can't tell who he is, but it has to be someone of some importance.
[Updated on: Tue, 14 October 2003 17:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #51351] |
Tue, 14 October 2003 17:25 |
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boma57
Messages: 581
Registered: April 2003
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Colonel |
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As it stands, I do not believe there is a name which is not symbolic in The Matrix (although I have no ideas for Switch and Apoc)...If you have any that I haven't listed (besides those two), tell me. (Note: I've taken several ideas on names from the first Matrix from this site.
1. Neo - Probably one of the most heard forms of symbolism, it's also an anagram for "one". Neo's real name is revealed to be "Thomas Anderson" in the first Matrix, and http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Heights/6495/names.htm suggests:
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The letters N, E, and O are found in "Anderson" in this order:
aNdErsOn
The letters N, E, O are found in "Thomas Anderson" in this order:
thOmas aNdErson
So this name conceals/contains the ideas that Thomas Anderson is both Neo and the One.
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2. Morpheus - In Ovid's Metamorphoses, Morpheus is the God of Dreams. Many times in the Matrix, Morpheus refers to dreams and "waking up".
3. Trinity - There's many definitions and interpretations of Trinity, one being representative of the "trinity" of main characters in the Matrix: Neo, Morpheus and herself. Others have Biblical referances (The Father, Son and Holy Ghost).
4. Cypher - When spelled as "cipher", it denotes the number/symbol zero (0). As such, in the first movie, Neo plays the role of "one" while Cypher is "zero". They are opposites (especially when associated with binary), and Neo and Cypher are the good/evil opposites in the first Matrix.
5. Tank & 6. Dozer - They are perhaps the hardest names to define out of this group, but they could perchance symbolize the fact that they were born in Zion and not the Matrix. Tanks and Bulldozers are very physical tools, and often physical things are associated with being primitive (Fist fights, etc). While most of the technology we see in Zion is far beyond our own, it can still be said that Zion is a "primitive" place in comparison to the Matrix and the machine world.
7. Mouse - As the smallest member of the group and best programmer of the group, his name has derivatives from both an animal mouse and a computer mouse.
8. Switch & 9. Apoc - The only names I have no symbolism for
10. Agent Smith, Jones, Brown, etc. - Agents in the Matrix are like a generic evil. The "men in black" who desire everyone to "conform". Morpheus says that "they all look the same", and they're names are all generic and simple names as well.
11. Nebuchadnezzar - | Quote: |
Then God showed the prophet Daniel a vision of what Nebuchadnezzar had dreamt, and Daniel told him that the dream was about the rise and fall of kingdoms. But eventually there would come a kingdom that would crush all the others and last forever.
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While Morpheus represents dreams, his ship the Nebuchadnezzar represents his dream. That Neo will be the one to lead Zion to victory and "last forever". After being told that that propechy was a lie and seeing the Nebuchadnezzar destroyed, Morpheus says: "I had dreamed a dream...but now that dream is gone from me."
12. Zion - Zion has many, all relevant meanings. It is historic and symbolic to the Jewish people as the land of Israel, and it can also mean a utopia. The Zion in the Matrix is a symbolic city of mankind, and it can also be considered a "utopia" of freedom.
11. Merovingian - The Merovingians were a line of wealthy Frankish kings who were overthrown after investing too much power in their maior domo, or mayors. Much like this kings of old, Merovingian is "overthrown", in a sense, by his wife Persephone.
12. Persephone - Persephone, or Proserpina in Latin, was part of an ancient Greek/Roman tale in which she was forced to spend 4 months of the year with a husband whom she hated. Obviously, we can say the the Persephone in the Matrix also hates her husband.
12. Commander Locke - John Locke was an Renaissance era British philosopher who believed that we should use logic as opposed to believing in dreams and superstition, and obviously much of the same is seen in Commander Locke who forsakes Morpheus for his beliefs in the oracle.
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| Matrix Revolutions [message #51597] |
Thu, 16 October 2003 10:11 |
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Krazyfoxx
Messages: 194
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You guys are kill'in me with all this trivia that I can't explore myself yet  I bought Matrix on VHS because I couldn't wait for the DVD, then I got Revisited and Animatrix on DVD but still haven't bought the Matrix DVD. I'm trying to wait until after Revolutions is released and they come out with a DVD trilogy (hopefully special edition). Oh well I guess I'll have to rent Reloaded this weekend and watch it a couple times.
Semper Fi
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