Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Server opinions
Server opinions [message #493473] |
Sat, 20 April 2024 12:49 ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Xylaquin
Messages: 257 Registered: December 2004 Location: Scotland, UK
Karma: 2
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I'm sure the server owners have been debating some of the below points in the server section, but for us non-server owners... what would your ideal server look like?
If I ran a server it'd be pretty vanilla, with a few quality-of-life additions. I'm not quite certain of the ideal player count, probably somewhere between 32-64.
It wouldn't be a marathon server, I'd probably make it 45-60 minutes. I find marathons a drag if they last longer than that.
Maps
All the stock maps, including Walls and City non-flying just for the change of dynamic, plus a few non-stock maps. The rotation would be reviewed each month, drawing on statistics showing which maps are skipped and which maps are particularly popular. At the start of each round players are asked if they want to skip the map or not, on my server they would be forced to vote (I've seen far too many skip-map votes fail because the threshold is never met!)
Customisations- No custom sounds - the novelty wears off, the text wastes space in the chat feed and the custom sounds are rarely relevant to what's being discussed or going on.
- Trial having no kill feed - when you've got over tens and tens of players on the server the kill feed just gets in the way of the chat feed... and when I think about it, when do you ever need the kill feed? If I kill someone I'll see it or hear it (BOINK!) If lack of kill feed proves detrimental, then plan B would be to segregate it to a different corner of the screen.
- HD purchase terminal icons - they look good, perhaps they should even be patched into the game itself for all maps
Voting
In addition to the map skip vote at the start of the match, players can call a vote during the game as well.- vote skip - if later in the game they decide they want the match to end.
- vote mute - if you initiate this vote against someone on your own team, and the vote succeeds, that person won't be able to use F2 or F3 chat. If a mute vote is initiated by the other team (or vice versa) and the vote succeeds, then the person won't be able to use F2 but won't be cut-off from their team. Mute lasts 12 hours.
- vote kick - if you initiate this vote you must also type a reason. In game mods get a third option when the vote happens: overrule.
- vote map - initiates a vote on what the next map should be
Overflow arrangements
At the time of writing, RenCorner is the main server people play on and has a 50 player limit. They've set the playercount to show 51 in the server list so you think there's a slot left, but when you join you get redirected automatically onto W3D Hub's server. I get the idea behind this overflow trick, but because Renegade's online playerbase is usually just above the 60 mark, you never end up with more than 4 or 5 people on the overflow server. At most they'll stay for a few minutes, then try join RenCorner again.
I'm not sure how I'd tackle this one. Possible solutions I can think of at the moment:- At first I thought having the player count at 40/41 would mean the overflow gets 10 extra players... but it really depends on how quickly players are showing up to the server.
- If all the UK/EU players went onto a UK/EU server, and the numbers were split that way, you wouldn't have everyone trying to cram into one server, plus pings for us UK/EU lot would be halved!
The problem with this idea is... there's already EU servers there that we're not joining because they're empty. I figured that most players aren't loyal to the server, it's just a case of going where they see the numbers: so what if I launch Renegade earlier than I'd normally do and join an EU server... then as more players load the server listing they'd join and as a result I've managed to shift this evening's players onto a different server. This tactic requires more than one person though, and it doesn't favour me in the UK since the EU guys are one or more timezones ahead- they join the server list earlier by default.
- The best solution ofcourse would simply be to get a bigger playerbase. We're working on that...
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Re: Server opinions [message #493485 is a reply to message #493473] |
Sun, 28 April 2024 04:23 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Veyrdite
Messages: 1471 Registered: August 2006 Location: Australia, Sydney
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Quote:No custom sounds - the novelty wears off, the text wastes space in the chat feed and the custom sounds are rarely relevant to what's being discussed or going on.
I tried turning the sounds off on Rencorner, but it only turns some of them off. They're great for the first 5 minutes, then they make my head hurt.
An additional sound to complain about: the PM "Yo!" when someone donates to the entire team (!td). I keep thinking someone is trying to page me specifically. If it needs a sound effect then it needs to be something else, not overloading "Yo!".
Quote:Trial having no kill feed - when you've got over tens and tens of players on the server the kill feed just gets in the way of the chat feed... and when I think about it, when do you ever need the kill feed? If I kill someone I'll see it or hear it (BOINK!) If lack of kill feed proves detrimental, then plan B would be to segregate it to a different corner of the screen.
I miss so much player chat because it's hidden amongst the forest of kill messages and other junk. When the messagebar appears at the top of the screen I want it to be for something important. At the moment the metagame completely changes at high server population counts because no-one can see your F3 team planning.
When you are directly involved in a kill: show it (so you know who, this is useful when learning other player's behaviors and so you can talk to them about it). Hide everything else.
Perhaps it might be worth showing all kills when the server population is very low (eg <=6)? That can help with strategy, especially if your teammate is a sniper on the offensive.
Quote:Maps
All the stock maps,
I really hate the stock maps. I'll take the most unbalanced _other_ maps any day as long as they're timed and there is a very big variety.
Some of my best memories are of weird and wacky maps. Vaguely recalling:
- A big sand one with two AGTs, two Obbies, two or 3 vehicle paths through the middle and falls to your death.
- Infantry only maps thrown in occasionally are a bit of fun variety. I remember lots of volt-auto-gun mob attacks on the exterior of buildings.
- Christmas 2004 snowmen turrets, a bridge, ice lake that would break and custom vehicles
Alas the stock maps servers fill up first. The scripts auto-map downloader has improved the player experience by quite a lot, but I still think the little convenience nudge towards the stock maps servers tips the balance and everyone then joins the bigger server from there.
Random old maps links:
WOL: Veyrdite Previously: Dthdealer ( a long time ago )
[Updated on: Sun, 28 April 2024 04:37] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Server opinions [message #493486 is a reply to message #493473] |
Sun, 28 April 2024 04:49 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Veyrdite
Messages: 1471 Registered: August 2006 Location: Australia, Sydney
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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I think the relationship between vanilla maps and playercounts is a short-term effect. For long-term player interest you need to be shoving in new maps occasionally. There will be complaints -- you don't survive this long on vanilla maps without creating a system where people reward stability -- but I think it shouldn't be a 0 or a 1 choice between all vanilla and all newmaps. Throw occasional random and weird ones in occasionally to spice up the flow and mood, give people a break, even if it's on a short timer like 20 mins.
C&C_Snowfight2004, just found it It's as glorious as I remember. https://multiplayerforums.com/files/file/1113-cc_snowfight2004zip/]Download
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C&C_Bot_Islands, just for the hell of it (instead of vanilla islands)
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WOL: Veyrdite Previously: Dthdealer ( a long time ago )
[Updated on: Sun, 28 April 2024 04:54] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Server opinions [message #493495 is a reply to message #493473] |
Wed, 01 May 2024 20:06 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Veyrdite
Messages: 1471 Registered: August 2006 Location: Australia, Sydney
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Rencorner has brought in a new UI for their map skip voting. It's really nice, clear and visual; but it reveals how the voting system is fundamentally flawed.
The problem is caused by the combination of two things:
(1) Options to vote are !yes and !no
(2) A minimum of 70% of players must participate in the vote for it to succeed
On their own they each seem sensible, but together they create a system where not all votes are equal and some votes do the opposite of what the players intend (!)
Let me give an example situation:
Total online players: 10
5 players have voted yes
1 player has voted no
Now let's say that you don't want to skip the map. You should NOT vote !no, that would actually cause the opposite of what you want (the map will get skipped). Instead you can vote more powerfully by simply not participating.
Always: if don't want to skip then NEVER vote. This way your choice is more powerful than any !yes voter. If only a few players that want no-skip simply don't participate then it's dramatically more effective than them actually voting !no, especially given how hard the 70% is to achieve.
In statistical language: the current voting system has stability and predictability issues. What the player thinks they are doing is not what actually happens. The vote can be gamed in a non-representative fashion.
A better solution would be to only accept !yes votes and have NO way of voting !no. Simply assume that non-participants all voted no. Then display a graphic that shows the proportion of players that have voted !yes and a little tic mark to show the 70% (or whatever threshold) required. This way the players instantly understand how the system works and there are no special ways of gaming it.
WOL: Veyrdite Previously: Dthdealer ( a long time ago )
[Updated on: Wed, 01 May 2024 20:08] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Server opinions [message #493496 is a reply to message #493473] |
Wed, 01 May 2024 22:17 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Goztow
Messages: 9734 Registered: March 2005 Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars) Goztoe |
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Or just put the participation percentage lower. 70 pct is too high especially because the vote only lasts for 30 s.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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Re: Server opinions [message #493498 is a reply to message #493496] |
Thu, 02 May 2024 16:01 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Veyrdite
Messages: 1471 Registered: August 2006 Location: Australia, Sydney
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Goztow wrote on Thu, 02 May 2024 15:17Or just put the participation percentage lower. 70 pct is too high especially because the vote only lasts for 30 s.
That doesn't fix the problems at all. A !no vote will still sometimes cause a yes outcome (eg if 4/10 people have already voted).
Quote:Nah, I'd suggest force everyone to vote. I can't remember which server I was on recently, but it had a voting system which took over the entire screen, stopping you from doing anything until you'd clicked on your choice.
That would work, except no-one could see the map to know if it's one they want to skip or not. Especially if they joined late.
WOL: Veyrdite Previously: Dthdealer ( a long time ago )
[Updated on: Thu, 02 May 2024 16:02] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Server opinions [message #493509 is a reply to message #493473] |
Sun, 05 May 2024 09:07 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) |
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Goztow
Messages: 9734 Registered: March 2005 Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars) Goztoe |
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Rencorner changed it to 60 pct participation now.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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