Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Jelly
| Re: Jelly [message #491093 is a reply to message #491092] |
Wed, 09 September 2015 14:00   |
ehhh
Messages: 2097
Registered: December 2010
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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iran your radio spam download link is broken
fix pls
and yeah units map were fucking horrible
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| Re: Jelly [message #491095 is a reply to message #491037] |
Thu, 10 September 2015 03:22 |
Pyr0man1c
Messages: 186
Registered: April 2009
Karma: 0
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It wouldn't? If you're thinking of a couple of guard towers? Take bio for example. If you placed anything stronger, it would put people off.
Are you thinking of some middle ground between base defence and rush maps?
"Sapere Aude- Dare to be wise"
| AmunRa |
and its all this "drama" that will one day end renegade...
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Quotes| v00d00 |
A question regarding RenGuard. Because it's a client/server application, what will stop the legions of people who cheat, and can crack apps, from reverse engineering it down to it's core protocol / encryption (which I'll assume it has), and duplicating it, so that they have their own client which responds to the server with all the correct info for an unpatched Renegade, but in fact is patched.
Personally, I think you should write a server-side only anti-cheat, which hooks the networking routines in Renegade. From there, using either the help of your staff who worked on creating Renegade, or from knowledge aquired while working with the network code in Renegade, create a system to monitor hit locations (did they REALLY hit, based on calculations by the anti-cheat (stopping BH)), how much damage are they claiming, vs how much damage their currently selected weapon really does, etc.
Then, add rate-of-fire checking, complete w/ lag tolerance (since lagged client will of course, upon delag, seem to fire faster, etc), and option to simply "edit" the incoming packets, to filter out the cheat (reduce damage, stop bullets, etc), or kick-ban the cheater (admins decision, based on anti cheat config).
Is it just me, or does that make more sense?
The flaw to Renegade of course, which is the core to the cheats, is that unlike most other games, Renegade lets the CLIENT decide hit locations, damage, RoF, etc. Vs others which say, "ok, the client fired their pistol along this trajectory. Did they hit something? How much damage did they do to that target if so. Report findings to clients".
My only concern, is that there will be alot more teams of people ripping apart the hard work of your small team, and undoing what you have done. Can you keep up writing fixes / completely rewriting the protocol to counter them once they have created their OWN complete anti-RenGuard client? If not, consider the server-side only method, and solve it once and for all, with the only version changes being to fix bugs, and not complete rewrites which will really piss admins off (if it takes this long for the initial, how long after the cheaters create their own client to counter it will your rewrite take to do?).
- v00d00
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| ELiT3FLyR |
ill say this again to all the TT people actually working on the patch. all you have to do is fix the bugs in the game. This is your role. dont get involved in a pointfix debate that you can never win (spoony has never managed to win one and hes a decent player) nor bother suggesting solutions for the faults in pointfix. just fix the damn bugs and you will all be remmebered as renegade heroes.
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[Updated on: Thu, 10 September 2015 03:23] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jelly [message #491096 is a reply to message #491037] |
Thu, 10 September 2015 05:07 |
iRANian
Messages: 4308
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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It would help out GDI on maps like walls flying where Nod takes out at least one building with SBHs every map.
I didn't feel like playing the event. I've been making some mad gains and I actually got a side job at the gym.
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
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| Re: Jelly [message #491100 is a reply to message #491037] |
Thu, 10 September 2015 23:49 |
iRANian
Messages: 4308
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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If they'd have more health it wouldn't be an issue either tbh. If they had 5 times more health.
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
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| Re: Jelly [message #491101 is a reply to message #491037] |
Fri, 11 September 2015 19:18 |
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GoTWhisKéY
Messages: 320
Registered: July 2004
Location: Canada
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I would of helped moderate Jellyserv if I knew it was an issue.
I liked playing in Jelly because they kept it as pure as possible. Bad maps and mods hurt servers though. Any server that plays city or walls without flying is out of touch imo
Old School Renny
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| Re: Jelly [message #491106 is a reply to message #491037] |
Sat, 12 September 2015 12:00 |
iRANian
Messages: 4308
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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Yeah kinda sums it up. Read your first sentence and was thinking "walls flying sucks for gdi unless they orca rush", before i read your second sentence.
walls fly marathon on big servers is so much fun as nod
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
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| Re: Jelly [message #491108 is a reply to message #491107] |
Sat, 12 September 2015 20:38 |
ehhh
Messages: 2097
Registered: December 2010
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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regarding 3.
it was because no one was around to do it, i prob posted about that 5 times and nothign was done
:<
but hey at least timed c4 abuse was fixed
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| Re: Jelly [message #491110 is a reply to message #491109] |
Sun, 13 September 2015 00:46 |
ehhh
Messages: 2097
Registered: December 2010
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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oh right the only active coder huhuhuhu
that shit got so dumb, not fun having mods kill your ref in the first 2 minutes because 1 person is afk
fml
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| Re: Jelly [message #491116 is a reply to message #491107] |
Mon, 14 September 2015 05:23 |
iRANian
Messages: 4308
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 12 September 2015 17:35 |
Why did you never host a server Iran
It would have been interesting to see how it looked when all was said and done
IranServ
1. Euro based
2. Pointmod on?
3. How would crates have been done? Game-changing ones only after the first 5 minutes? The reason Jelly never got more strict on that is because it's public and it kept things interesting on those odd occasions where it happened
Another few things Jelly always allowed were clearscope, Spongebob c4, and building bar HUDs because it's a public server, not a private league thing like clanwars was
I remember TD and Mike both got irritated about those and wanted to disallow them, but that was the competitive spirit within them colliding with the short bus aura of public Renegade players
4. Vehicles modded in any way? Maybe up the splash/damage for MRLS and lower the splash for arties? Or use HaTe's suggestion and make arties fire a little slower?
5. Light base defenses on rush maps to lessen the chance of toddler rushes working?
6. Time limit? Player limit? Use fan maps?
7. ...?
8. Profit
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u know i hate pointsmod lol. I'd just disable the custom crates completely, but no one likes that so I would just use regular crates for 5 minutes (alrewady made something to do that a few years back).
yeah clearscope, spongebob c4 and building bar are major cheats. huge difference playing with and without. It's pretty much impossible to miss c4 with spongebob, clearscope gives you two times more vision scoped and building bars show...building bars the whole time
I'd higher splash on mrls instead of lowering splash on artillery, on xperts server with less arty splash things were pretty gay and in marathon it would stalemate things so much and become boring. The heavy splash MRLS was fucking hilarious when we tried it.
Light defenses on rush maps, rebuyable or with 5x time more health. I'd also increase light and med tank damage by 8-10 points, pretty ridiculous how light tank does about as much damage as a tech can repair.
no time limit and player limit about 40-50.
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
[Updated on: Mon, 14 September 2015 05:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jelly [message #491117 is a reply to message #491037] |
Mon, 14 September 2015 14:30 |
Pyr0man1c
Messages: 186
Registered: April 2009
Karma: 0
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And reduce pic/rail damage to 70 pls
vlimit?
"Sapere Aude- Dare to be wise"
| AmunRa |
and its all this "drama" that will one day end renegade...
|
Quotes| v00d00 |
A question regarding RenGuard. Because it's a client/server application, what will stop the legions of people who cheat, and can crack apps, from reverse engineering it down to it's core protocol / encryption (which I'll assume it has), and duplicating it, so that they have their own client which responds to the server with all the correct info for an unpatched Renegade, but in fact is patched.
Personally, I think you should write a server-side only anti-cheat, which hooks the networking routines in Renegade. From there, using either the help of your staff who worked on creating Renegade, or from knowledge aquired while working with the network code in Renegade, create a system to monitor hit locations (did they REALLY hit, based on calculations by the anti-cheat (stopping BH)), how much damage are they claiming, vs how much damage their currently selected weapon really does, etc.
Then, add rate-of-fire checking, complete w/ lag tolerance (since lagged client will of course, upon delag, seem to fire faster, etc), and option to simply "edit" the incoming packets, to filter out the cheat (reduce damage, stop bullets, etc), or kick-ban the cheater (admins decision, based on anti cheat config).
Is it just me, or does that make more sense?
The flaw to Renegade of course, which is the core to the cheats, is that unlike most other games, Renegade lets the CLIENT decide hit locations, damage, RoF, etc. Vs others which say, "ok, the client fired their pistol along this trajectory. Did they hit something? How much damage did they do to that target if so. Report findings to clients".
My only concern, is that there will be alot more teams of people ripping apart the hard work of your small team, and undoing what you have done. Can you keep up writing fixes / completely rewriting the protocol to counter them once they have created their OWN complete anti-RenGuard client? If not, consider the server-side only method, and solve it once and for all, with the only version changes being to fix bugs, and not complete rewrites which will really piss admins off (if it takes this long for the initial, how long after the cheaters create their own client to counter it will your rewrite take to do?).
- v00d00
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| ELiT3FLyR |
ill say this again to all the TT people actually working on the patch. all you have to do is fix the bugs in the game. This is your role. dont get involved in a pointfix debate that you can never win (spoony has never managed to win one and hes a decent player) nor bother suggesting solutions for the faults in pointfix. just fix the damn bugs and you will all be remmebered as renegade heroes.
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[Updated on: Mon, 14 September 2015 14:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jelly [message #491118 is a reply to message #491116] |
Mon, 14 September 2015 16:37 |
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liquidv2
Messages: 3407
Registered: February 2007
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| iRANian wrote on Mon, 14 September 2015 07:23 |
u know i hate pointsmod lol. I'd just disable the custom crates completely, but no one likes that so I would just use regular crates for 5 minutes (alrewady made something to do that a few years back).
yeah clearscope, spongebob c4 and building bar are major cheats. huge difference playing with and without. It's pretty much impossible to miss c4 with spongebob, clearscope gives you two times more vision scoped and building bars show...building bars the whole time
I'd higher splash on mrls instead of lowering splash on artillery, on xperts server with less arty splash things were pretty gay and in marathon it would stalemate things so much and become boring. The heavy splash MRLS was fucking hilarious when we tried it.
Light defenses on rush maps, rebuyable or with 5x time more health. I'd also increase light and med tank damage by 8-10 points, pretty ridiculous how light tank does about as much damage as a tech can repair.
no time limit and player limit about 40-50.
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What would the vehicle limit be if the player max was 50?
Not sure if 5x more health for basic defenses is a good thing because that would be more than actual buildings
Imagine if Nod lost the Airstrip - it would automatically lose the map because killing a Guard Tower would be harder than the Level 10 Challenge
What if they had more HP than the stock ones but automatically respawned anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes after they were destroyed, instead of being a buy-able option? People could work together to kill them and would have windows of opportunity to achieve whatever
I think dropping the arty splash range (not like RR did, but maybe 20%) would give GDI a small edge in field and base repairs
At the same time, increasing the MRLS splash range by even double would not have too many adverse effects on the game (except around the Field corner, and only if you don't also up the MRLS damage as well)
That steroid MRLS week was fucking great, but the sad truth was Nod was winning just as much as before
By definition all of those things are cheats, but they were allowed because it was casual Renegade - I never had colored c4, and during the short time where I had the Jelly clearscope I almost never scoped anyways so it was of no benefit to me
I never used building bar shit either because I wasn't a fruitcup
Having the standard 100 or 200 credit crate early on is still worth rushing and dying for, and I always liked that
Dropping PIC and Railgun damage to 70 isn't a terrible idea, and upping the overall damage done by tanks would mean landing shots is more important than before (and that you might need to actually hit enemies to win engagements rather than just have more repair people on you)
You might want to give MRLS more health then, because light tanks would turn them into soup otherwise (I think arties would be fine)
I'm on board with most of your thoughts - Iran and liquid Renegade would be a shitload more balanced than stock Renegade, and without sacrificing everything that made the game fun to play
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| Re: Jelly [message #491122 is a reply to message #491037] |
Wed, 16 September 2015 19:42 |
YesNoMayb
Messages: 176
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Skins are stupid. I used to use the yellow spongebob c4/timed/proxy replacements and could see them from a mile away. They didn't mean jack in a tunnel because I'd place a timed, turn around, and back again forgetting I placed one and die. I had the bright green stealth skin too for a couple days.
When I figured out how to add skins the first thing I added was the clearscope, which I used for a couple years. Just recently in June after reinstalling I tried not running it for a week and realized I didn't need it to snipe.
I guess they can be cool for the laughs. One day my brother came up and saw me using my mystery machine GDI apc. "Is that the mystery machine?" Me: "Yup." He never knew anything about skins but he used to play ren a lot years ago.
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| Re: Jelly [message #491123 is a reply to message #491122] |
Wed, 16 September 2015 21:03 |
ehhh
Messages: 2097
Registered: December 2010
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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pretty much only ever used clearscope, used a different reticle but not for the last 5 years
i guess dj used the ice cream music stank sound too eh
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