Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Jelly
| Re: Jelly [message #491066 is a reply to message #491037] |
Fri, 04 September 2015 21:51   |
shaitan
Messages: 727
Registered: April 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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I knew before I asked, Trist.
The whole point was for DJ to bury the hatchet. If I can, so can he.
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:38 |
I get along with people fine, so long as they aren't rejects who promised things that they couldn't
deliver on, or forum trolls who contribute nothing except to bloat the fragile egos of the same
rejects I despise.
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[Updated on: Fri, 04 September 2015 21:53] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jelly [message #491068 is a reply to message #491037] |
Fri, 04 September 2015 21:57 |
shaitan
Messages: 727
Registered: April 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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For him or me? 
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:38 |
I get along with people fine, so long as they aren't rejects who promised things that they couldn't
deliver on, or forum trolls who contribute nothing except to bloat the fragile egos of the same
rejects I despise.
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| Re: Jelly [message #491071 is a reply to message #491070] |
Sat, 05 September 2015 08:34 |
shaitan
Messages: 727
Registered: April 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 05 September 2015 11:06 |
The mod issue was first addressed 3 years ago - there wasn't anyone out there that made sense for it and we didn't take enough chances on random people
You want enough people around to help train and guide new moderators, and after a certain point we did not have that
The process was irreversible by the time you had suggested it
Don't expect DJ to move on - that's a waste of time
Instead, you should focus on keeping him out of your servers
The only things he can do are invisihug (now against the RC rules as glitch abuse probably), use illegal weapon models that double as superbodies, trash talk other players unprovoked, and use actual cheats like triggerbot so he can feel good
Not joking at all about any of those things
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He's been random triggerbot checked. If he's caught, he'll be banned. Then the fun begins of proxies/vpns to get new IP's. Well, it is fun for me, as the last guy found out a couple of weeks ago.
DJ, don't cheat, and then there's no problem.
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:38 |
I get along with people fine, so long as they aren't rejects who promised things that they couldn't
deliver on, or forum trolls who contribute nothing except to bloat the fragile egos of the same
rejects I despise.
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| Re: Jelly [message #491072 is a reply to message #491071] |
Sat, 05 September 2015 09:18 |
ehhh
Messages: 2097
Registered: December 2010
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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pretty sure there wasn't a mod issue pre server issues
there were enough active mods albeit only temps
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| Re: Jelly [message #491073 is a reply to message #491064] |
Sat, 05 September 2015 12:45 |
Pyr0man1c
Messages: 186
Registered: April 2009
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| shaitan wrote on Fri, 04 September 2015 21:39 |
How many moderators were made during that time?
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3 primarily, and some auxillary moderators, but it was already too late by then. This was at the end of April.
I think ehh is right, I don't really remember anyone being so discontent about anything moderator related up until the server issues.
Jelly's rapid loss of players began when I went away in July 14, and became worse when i properly left from October 14. I don't know exactly what happened, but their new unpopular rotation was probably one major cause.
Liquid, the problem concerning moderators wasn't that you didn't take chance on random people, it was that the admins weren't active enough ingame etc, and so they were unable to judge potential candidates properly. I assure you back then, there were people who were competent and responsible enough to be moderators (some with little guidance), you just didn't see it.
That's my perspective, having played at Jelly from 2013, and from being an active member of many other communities.
"Sapere Aude- Dare to be wise"
| AmunRa |
and its all this "drama" that will one day end renegade...
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Quotes| v00d00 |
A question regarding RenGuard. Because it's a client/server application, what will stop the legions of people who cheat, and can crack apps, from reverse engineering it down to it's core protocol / encryption (which I'll assume it has), and duplicating it, so that they have their own client which responds to the server with all the correct info for an unpatched Renegade, but in fact is patched.
Personally, I think you should write a server-side only anti-cheat, which hooks the networking routines in Renegade. From there, using either the help of your staff who worked on creating Renegade, or from knowledge aquired while working with the network code in Renegade, create a system to monitor hit locations (did they REALLY hit, based on calculations by the anti-cheat (stopping BH)), how much damage are they claiming, vs how much damage their currently selected weapon really does, etc.
Then, add rate-of-fire checking, complete w/ lag tolerance (since lagged client will of course, upon delag, seem to fire faster, etc), and option to simply "edit" the incoming packets, to filter out the cheat (reduce damage, stop bullets, etc), or kick-ban the cheater (admins decision, based on anti cheat config).
Is it just me, or does that make more sense?
The flaw to Renegade of course, which is the core to the cheats, is that unlike most other games, Renegade lets the CLIENT decide hit locations, damage, RoF, etc. Vs others which say, "ok, the client fired their pistol along this trajectory. Did they hit something? How much damage did they do to that target if so. Report findings to clients".
My only concern, is that there will be alot more teams of people ripping apart the hard work of your small team, and undoing what you have done. Can you keep up writing fixes / completely rewriting the protocol to counter them once they have created their OWN complete anti-RenGuard client? If not, consider the server-side only method, and solve it once and for all, with the only version changes being to fix bugs, and not complete rewrites which will really piss admins off (if it takes this long for the initial, how long after the cheaters create their own client to counter it will your rewrite take to do?).
- v00d00
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| ELiT3FLyR |
ill say this again to all the TT people actually working on the patch. all you have to do is fix the bugs in the game. This is your role. dont get involved in a pointfix debate that you can never win (spoony has never managed to win one and hes a decent player) nor bother suggesting solutions for the faults in pointfix. just fix the damn bugs and you will all be remmebered as renegade heroes.
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[Updated on: Sat, 05 September 2015 12:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jelly [message #491074 is a reply to message #491037] |
Sat, 05 September 2015 16:48 |
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Xpert
Messages: 1588
Registered: December 2005
Location: New York City
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Jelly's downfall was because the admins and seniors were never around. And when they were, they kept making decisions based on their opinions alone and not the opinions of the people who actually play on the server. They kept trying to keep the server as close to "vanilla" as possible but that wasn't popular anymore with the direction Rencorner and MPF was going. Great ideas of people who played there were always getting turned down or looked the other way.
The server also had a terrible rotation. When new maps were added, it made it worst. We got crappy maps like Arid and Creekdale added to the rotation that killed the player counts instead of going with maps that were similar to Uphill and Tomb that people enjoyed.
There were never any moderators and for over 6 years, Jelly never had an application system. It was only implemented when the server was on its last breath and by then it was pointless. Promotions were handed out to current staff just out of desperation to keep those people having the server active while the seniors and admins were never around to participate in the server's needs. Anyone who willingly offered help got denied or never took into consideration. It was our home just as much as it was the players but in the end, our opinions didn't matter despite the constant polls and debates on the forums that were just pointless and false hope just like the Field laser wall idea. It made no sense as to why the people who never even play this game anymore, had a say in what happens to the server. Even behind the scenes in private discussions, all the admins lost interest but yet still had the final say in what happens with the server.
I joined the Jelly team when it was still going when liquid was still an admin of it and I wanted to take part in server upgrades with raven. In time, raven became inactive and liquid also stepped away from it. Eventually I was keeping the server up to date but with very limited access and can only apply such updates when an admin was on. Ethenal and Scruffy kept blaming my stuff for the lag issues of Jelly when it wasn't even my stuff causing the problems. When I left the team, they eventually took my stuff out and in the end, the server was still laggy and unplayable. It drove people away to the point where Jelly was no longer the most active server of all hours of the day.
Creator of NetGuard, an IRC network regulator.
Developer of the CloudyServ 0.982-X project.
Developer of the CloudyServ Ren-X bot.
Part time streamer - https://twitch.tv/gg_wonder
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| Re: Jelly [message #491075 is a reply to message #491074] |
Sat, 05 September 2015 20:22 |
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liquidv2
Messages: 3407
Registered: February 2007
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| shaitan wrote on Sat, 05 September 2015 10:34 |
DJ, don't cheat, and then there's no problem.
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if he can't cheat and he can't invisihug then he's just going to get his ass kicked, bitch at players, and eventually leave - it's a win-win for everyone
| Pyr0man1c wrote on Sat, 05 September 2015 14:45 |
Liquid, the problem concerning moderators wasn't that you didn't take chance on random people, it was that the admins weren't active enough ingame etc, and so they were unable to judge potential candidates properly. I assure you back then, there were people who were competent and responsible enough to be moderators (some with little guidance), you just didn't see it.
That's my perspective, having played at Jelly from 2013, and from being an active member of many other communities.
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I haven't been active since well before any of that, but I will tell you I was fed up to the point of almost leaving back in 2013 because of mod issues (mainly things not being done by people that could have done them but simply chose not to)
the admins weren't around whatsoever, and neither were most of the seniors - as I said elsewhere, Jelly was largely a ghost ship floating down a metaphorical river only held afloat by its passengers choosing to come back
| Xpert wrote on Sat, 05 September 2015 18:48 |
Jelly's downfall was because the admins and seniors were never around. And when they were, they kept making decisions based on their opinions alone and not the opinions of the people who actually play on the server. They kept trying to keep the server as close to "vanilla" as possible but that wasn't popular anymore with the direction Rencorner and MPF was going. Great ideas of people who played there were always getting turned down or looked the other way.
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exactly what I'm saying - no matter how players voted for things, the ones with the ability to make the changes would only act on it if it was something they wanted, and it was infuriating
I personally thought Arid and Creekdale weren't bad maps, but I wasn't around to actually play them and had no idea how they'd go on a Marathon server - it would have made sense to either lower their frequency or switch them out when it was deemed they were hurting the player counts, but that would have required someone being around for it
At the same time, Arid and Uphill were also being tested and from what I've seen are both pretty good maps to play
There was a period where Unit's version of Field was forced onto the player base for weeks on end, and every time a new version was done it would be slapped on and everyone would have to re-download it (which isn't a big deal with 4.0, but people still playing Jelly Renegade weren't huge proponents of change)
On top of that, the rotation put together had little to no thought to it and was left running for way too long without input from others
i0ncl0ud always made the best rotations, including one that was used for over 2 years, but no one thought to ask him (or anyone else, for that matter)
I'm not blaming anyone for Jelly's demise as I wasn't there either, but as time went on people simply moved on to other things - this 13+ year old game was replaced by PS4s and MMORPGs and more modern FPS titles, along with people starting families and having busy schedules and college and jobs and whatnot
I think RenCorner is more fit to carry the torch of Renegade's future, and hope they do so well
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| Re: Jelly [message #491076 is a reply to message #491071] |
Sun, 06 September 2015 02:01 |
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-TLS-DJ-EYE-K
Messages: 742
Registered: November 2010
Location: Germany
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| shaitan wrote on Sat, 05 September 2015 17:34 |
| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 05 September 2015 11:06 |
The mod issue was first addressed 3 years ago - there wasn't anyone out there that made sense for it and we didn't take enough chances on random people
You want enough people around to help train and guide new moderators, and after a certain point we did not have that
The process was irreversible by the time you had suggested it
Don't expect DJ to move on - that's a waste of time
Instead, you should focus on keeping him out of your servers
The only things he can do are invisihug (now against the RC rules as glitch abuse probably), use illegal weapon models that double as superbodies, trash talk other players unprovoked, and use actual cheats like triggerbot so he can feel good
Not joking at all about any of those things
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He's been random triggerbot checked. If he's caught, he'll be banned. Then the fun begins of proxies/vpns to get new IP's. Well, it is fun for me, as the last guy found out a couple of weeks ago.
DJ, don't cheat, and then there's no problem.
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lols, liqtard still trieing to convince ppl of his hate-dj religion,haha, nice to see some things never change 
No worries, you can check whatever or whenever you want for anything, as before you wont find anything not allowed 
And i have never been some1 who had to use vpns n shit to play, in fact i still use the same serial i have been using for years, so nothing to hide from here 
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| Re: Jelly [message #491079 is a reply to message #491037] |
Sun, 06 September 2015 10:53 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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Liquid, just give up this quest to make poor dj look bad. Dj's posts are far more credible than yours, he has a top edge reputation for so long, your petty attempts do not fool me, Dj's the reneman!
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Jelly [message #491080 is a reply to message #491079] |
Sun, 06 September 2015 11:26 |
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-TLS-DJ-EYE-K
Messages: 742
Registered: November 2010
Location: Germany
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Goztow wrote on Sun, 06 September 2015 19:53 |
Liquid, just give up this quest to make poor dj look bad. Dj's posts are far more credible than yours, he has a top edge reputation for so long, your petty attempts do not fool me, Dj's the reneman!
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People care about Reputation still? haha, good 1
Besides that, he cant give up, i once said hes so addicted and still mad at me for discovering land that has been discovered before, his ego cant get over that and will be reminded everytime he sees my name pop up somewhere, poor liqtard 
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| Re: Jelly [message #491082 is a reply to message #491037] |
Sun, 06 September 2015 12:42 |
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liquidv2
Messages: 3407
Registered: February 2007
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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I've actually pointed it out multiple times in the past but DJ's brain filters out what it doesn't want to hear
Years before I even met my girlfriend I thought DJ was an arrogant egotistical loser, and I purposely joined the opposite side of his community match games just to see him bitch and moan when he lost
Since then he has not changed a bit, though he eventually got triggerbot to get better at Renegade (probably because anyone that beats him is cheating anyways in his mind)
I don't understand why he thinks so highly of himself with regards to Renegade, but he can't come up with a straight answer and assumes I'm jealous or mad at him for briefly dating my girlfriend before I did
Like I said before, she dated guys in high school before him
As is the case with him, I really don't care whatsoever - I call him out in Renegade for the same reasons I did years ago, which is him having the world's highest opinion of himself and literally nothing to base it on
I'm far better at Renegade than he is, but you don't see me trash talking a step above his crazy bullshit
It is what it is - the dense German retard is going to think whatever he wants to think, and nothing I can say will change that, but at least everyone else will know what's up
In vehicles, he's above the average pub player
At sniping, he's average or less in the open - he knows this, which is why he only exclusively fights from behind walls and hugs as hard and as fast as he possibly can
The only time I've seen him do well in Renegade was hugging against other players that weren't hugging at all, and he was joyfully talking an excessive amount of trash while doing it
In a fight, he would be the guy that either pulls out a gun or goes directly for the other guy's balls
I really don't understand what keeps him going, because the biggest lie is the one he keeps telling himself
It can't be that I'm right, because the DJ complex clearly states he cannot be wrong 
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| Re: Jelly [message #491083 is a reply to message #491037] |
Sun, 06 September 2015 14:46 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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I see I forgot the /sarcasm... But I guess everyone figured it out already. Nevertheless, I think it's better to drop it liquid.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Jelly [message #491092 is a reply to message #491074] |
Wed, 09 September 2015 05:18 |
iRANian
Messages: 4308
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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| Xpert wrote on Sat, 05 September 2015 16:48 |
Jelly's downfall was because the admins and seniors were never around. And when they were, they kept making decisions based on their opinions alone and not the opinions of the people who actually play on the server. They kept trying to keep the server as close to "vanilla" as possible but that wasn't popular anymore with the direction Rencorner and MPF was going. Great ideas of people who played there were always getting turned down or looked the other way.
The server also had a terrible rotation. When new maps were added, it made it worst. We got crappy maps like Arid and Creekdale added to the rotation that killed the player counts instead of going with maps that were similar to Uphill and Tomb that people enjoyed.
There were never any moderators and for over 6 years, Jelly never had an application system. It was only implemented when the server was on its last breath and by then it was pointless. Promotions were handed out to current staff just out of desperation to keep those people having the server active while the seniors and admins were never around to participate in the server's needs. Anyone who willingly offered help got denied or never took into consideration. It was our home just as much as it was the players but in the end, our opinions didn't matter despite the constant polls and debates on the forums that were just pointless and false hope just like the Field laser wall idea. It made no sense as to why the people who never even play this game anymore, had a say in what happens to the server. Even behind the scenes in private discussions, all the admins lost interest but yet still had the final say in what happens with the server.
I joined the Jelly team when it was still going when liquid was still an admin of it and I wanted to take part in server upgrades with raven. In time, raven became inactive and liquid also stepped away from it. Eventually I was keeping the server up to date but with very limited access and can only apply such updates when an admin was on. Ethenal and Scruffy kept blaming my stuff for the lag issues of Jelly when it wasn't even my stuff causing the problems. When I left the team, they eventually took my stuff out and in the end, the server was still laggy and unplayable. It drove people away to the point where Jelly was no longer the most active server of all hours of the day.
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Creekdale and Arid sucked bad yes and they killed player count too.
It was funny how your server was running your software without the server hanging whenever someone spawned (the SFPS issue), even after playing for hours with 24 players kek.
Most of the junior moderators were completely retarded. Another thing is that most players were European yet the server was hosted in the US.
Most of the things suggested were made by people who didn't play and the whole keeping the server original thing was kinda comical considering the server was heavily modded and had some retarded stuff like the crates granting vehicles within the first 5 minutes of the match on a 0 starting credits server. Rotation was already pretty bad (about 2 rush maps for every BD map), which caused more players to leave. You'd have 36 players at the end of a BD map, then 28 at the end of the first rush map and than 20 players at the end of the second rush map. The server always filled up on BD maps and emptied out on rush maps. Then of course the server was running C&C_City and C&C_Hourglass.
With the lag issue fixed, the server moved to Europe, the 549857394854 shitty rush maps removed and some other stupid shit fixed like the vehicle crates at the start of the map the server would still be filling 50 players easily today. I stopped playing because of the ridiculous lag.
The maps UnitXc made sucked too, especially Field2 which was hilariously Nod biased). He made the hills on the map larger so tanks couldn't cover behind the hill so Nod Arties with techs on them would almost always win against everything. Though Field2 was a lot of fun to play because it was so comically.
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
[Updated on: Wed, 09 September 2015 05:23] Report message to a moderator |
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