Home » Renegade Discussions » Mod Forum » Tiberian Dawn: The First Strike
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| Re: Tiberian Dawn: The First Strike [message #487844 is a reply to message #487834] |
Sat, 14 June 2014 12:25   |
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Bfranx
Messages: 152
Registered: July 2010
Location: Oklahoma, United States
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| liquidv2 wrote on Fri, 13 June 2014 13:05 |
it's painfully obvious you can't see the big picture
rather than dismissing everything they're saying, consider it for a moment
what have you come up with in over 4 years of this? you said you're spending your free time, yet no one is sure what you yourself are actually doing
you laid out some simple ideas that have not advanced, have no clear direction or goal, and have next to no chance of making any impact whatsoever - the fact that you're still "continuing" on is mind-boggling, to say the least
with that being said, i look forward to seeing where this project is at in 2018
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Look, I'm sorry about how long this is taking. Everyone on the team is a volunteer and they have obligations to more than just this project. The models would have been ready years ago if anyone would have just stuck around and finished what they started.
They get close to finishing the models and then decide to stop just before they're done. I'm not paying them anything so I can't stop them, all I can do is try to keep up interest in the project and move on.
I repost the job ads, get more modelers, and get a few more models worked on, but then the process repeats itself.
Take, for example, the modeler who was just working on the Airstrip, Advanced Power Plant, Chain-link barrier, and Advanced Guard Tower (He chose to work on that many models, if anyone was wondering). He had just finished the AGT and had nearly finished the other three but then he decided to take a break from 3D modeling because of things going on in his life.
So now I have a finished AGT that will be textured, but three other models that are still unfinished.
I have three other modelers who are coming close to finishing their respective buildings (Temple, Silo, Weapons Factory) and it looks like they're going to actually finish them. So hopefully I can actually put together something for an update.
I don't understand why everyone keeps saying that there's no direction or goal. I've stated my goal clearly, several times.
I just came here hoping to find help from people that know stuff about Command & Conquer, and I'm sorry if this project is more of a burden to the forum than anything else, but I'd like to think someone out there actually cares enough about a project like this to support it.
Everyone says that there have been several games like mine that just threw up a couple of pictures and then fell apart, so why is it so wrong for me to stick with this?
I'm trying the best that I can with what I know, and all I wanted was some volunteers, or useful advice or something to help.
If you guys really don't care at all about this project or the idea behind it, and have no interest in helping it in any way, shape, or form, then I can just leave if that's what you want.
But if this does interest someone, anyone out there, please say something.
Check out our IndieDB page here: http://www.indiedb.com/games/tiberian-dawn-the-first-strike
Also check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/FirestormProductions2010
[Updated on: Sat, 14 June 2014 12:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Tiberian Dawn: The First Strike [message #487850 is a reply to message #433126] |
Sat, 14 June 2014 22:01 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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I shouldn't write this post. I know you're going to ignore everything I say by rationalizing it into "but if I work on this for 15 more years, we'll have something to show in Unreal Engine 8!"
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Look, I'm sorry about how long this is taking. Everyone on the team is a volunteer and they have obligations to more than just this project. The models would have been ready years ago if anyone would have just stuck around and finished what they started.
They get close to finishing the models and then decide to stop just before they're done. I'm not paying them anything so I can't stop them, all I can do is try to keep up interest in the project and move on.
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What interest? Beyond the four fawning sycophants at "BHP", who really cares? I mean, all of us posting here care, but to varying degrees. Most of us feel that you're trolling the forum, so we care enough to troll you back. That's about it. I don't think anyone here is interested in playing the end-product, assuming it comes out before people forget what Tiberian Dawn is.
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I repost the job ads, get more modelers, and get a few more models worked on, but then the process repeats itself.
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That's because you're hiring scrubs. You're hiring scrubs because your presented work really sucks. It's like 2002-level quality. You're only going to attract scrubs with that level of quality. No one who's interested in next-gen game development is going to spend their time creating art assets that will never be shown in their portfolio.
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Take, for example, the modeler who was just working on the Airstrip, Advanced Power Plant, Chain-link barrier, and Advanced Guard Tower (He chose to work on that many models, if anyone was wondering). He had just finished the AGT and had nearly finished the other three but then he decided to take a break from 3D modeling because of things going on in his life.
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That AGT has no real details to it. The few details it does have make very little sense, regardless of how much it looks like the original model. No one is going to care about outdated game visuals. Take what the original game gave you and upgrade it. When I was still working on something like this, I decided to make everything as realistic as I was capable of doing at the time:
In the span of roughly six months from 2011-2012, I produced more work than your project did over the course of four years. I made models with higher visual fidelity, actual textures, etc. It's not perfect, obviously. I could (and should) go back and rework all of it to a new standard, so I could actually use it to attract a team of people to work with me. I don't care enough, though, since I have a family now and I'm more worried about paying for my house and living my life. This is fun stuff to do when I'm tired of playing games.
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So now I have a finished AGT that will be textured, but three other models that are still unfinished.
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I can assure you that AGT isn't finished yet.
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I have three other modelers who are coming close to finishing their respective buildings (Temple, Silo, Weapons Factory) and it looks like they're going to actually finish them. So hopefully I can actually put together something for an update.
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You need more than buildings for people to care about this. You need artists that can actually create good art. If all they're capable of doing is blindly following reference images and never using their imagination to figure out why things look the way they do, you'll be stuck in limbo forever.
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I don't understand why everyone keeps saying that there's no direction or goal. I've stated my goal clearly, several times.
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I do this for a living. I work with people far more talented than anyone on your team, trust me. If I showed them any of this and explained how long it took you to get to where you are, they'd start laughing and wonder why you're wasting your time. Much like all of us have done so far, and only a couple of people here have actually dabbled in the 3D arts. You're in a hopeless situation unless you decide to learn how to actually do the work you're trying to push on to other people.
The reason I can create anything I want is because I suffered through the same shit you're reading here. I had people tell me the same things you're writing about. That you suck, that you're terribad, that you should uninstall and move on. Instead of finding artists to do my work for me, I ended up creating most of APB by myself. Just about every building in that awful mod is still my work to some degree, and most of the maps are still mine. They still use my textures and some of my vehicles. I forced myself to learn how to do these things over 10 years ago. I now work in the field as a synthetic environment engineer.
Stop bullshitting people here and get to work. You'll pick up valuable skills and you won't have to rely on other people to accomplish your vision.
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I just came here hoping to find help from people that know stuff about Command & Conquer, and I'm sorry if this project is more of a burden to the forum than anything else, but I'd like to think someone out there actually cares enough about a project like this to support it.
Everyone says that there have been several games like mine that just threw up a couple of pictures and then fell apart, so why is it so wrong for me to stick with this?
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Because you're not farking doing anything. You're posting shitty models that other people made and acting like the only thing you're capable of being is the "ideas guy" - everyone is the ideas guy. It's why Chronojam ruined APB after I left. He can't do any of the actual work on the project, so he relies on other people to carry it for him. I'm sure some turd will go over there and say "WAH!" TEH AIRKRAFTKARRIAR SAID TEH BAD TINGS BOUT U" but he knows it's the truth. It's why APB is dead, and has been dead for a long time.
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I'm trying the best that I can with what I know, and all I wanted was some volunteers, or useful advice or something to help.
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You were given advice. Many times over, in fact. I hate tooting my own horn, but I have more experience in 3D than everyone in this forum. I'm telling you something you need to hear. In the words of Dante: SHUT UP AND MOD
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| Re: Tiberian Dawn: The First Strike [message #487855 is a reply to message #487850] |
Sun, 15 June 2014 09:26 |
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Bfranx
Messages: 152
Registered: July 2010
Location: Oklahoma, United States
Karma: 0
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I shouldn't write this post. I know you're going to ignore everything I say by rationalizing it into "but if I work on this for 15 more years, we'll have something to show in Unreal Engine 8!"
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I never came close in any of my posts to rationalizing anything as idiotic as that.
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What interest? Beyond the four fawning sycophants at "BHP", who really cares? I mean, all of us posting here care, but to varying degrees. Most of us feel that you're trolling the forum, so we care enough to troll you back. That's about it. I don't think anyone here is interested in playing the end-product, assuming it comes out before people forget what Tiberian Dawn is.
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Well it's not like giving up will fix the interest issue.
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That's because you're hiring scrubs. You're hiring scrubs because your presented work really sucks. It's like 2002-level quality. You're only going to attract scrubs with that level of quality. No one who's interested in next-gen game development is going to spend their time creating art assets that will never be shown in their portfolio.
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By that logic I'm hiring scrubs because the posted work sucks, but I can only make sucky work because I'm hiring scrubs.
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That AGT has no real details to it. The few details it does have make very little sense, regardless of how much it looks like the original model. No one is going to care about outdated game visuals. Take what the original game gave you and upgrade it. When I was still working on something like this, I decided to make everything as realistic as I was capable of doing at the time:
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What details could be added to the Advanced Guard Tower that wouldn't look out of place?
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You need more than buildings for people to care about this. You need artists that can actually create good art. If all they're capable of doing is blindly following reference images and never using their imagination to figure out why things look the way they do, you'll be stuck in limbo forever.
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When you're trying to recreate something in the hopes of it being nostalgic, how do you know where to draw the line in terms of extra detail?
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I do this for a living. I work with people far more talented than anyone on your team, trust me. If I showed them any of this and explained how long it took you to get to where you are, they'd start laughing and wonder why you're wasting your time. Much like all of us have done so far, and only a couple of people here have actually dabbled in the 3D arts. You're in a hopeless situation unless you decide to learn how to actually do the work you're trying to push on to other people.
The reason I can create anything I want is because I suffered through the same shit you're reading here. I had people tell me the same things you're writing about. That you suck, that you're terribad, that you should uninstall and move on. Instead of finding artists to do my work for me, I ended up creating most of APB by myself. Just about every building in that awful mod is still my work to some degree, and most of the maps are still mine. They still use my textures and some of my vehicles. I forced myself to learn how to do these things over 10 years ago. I now work in the field as a synthetic environment engineer.
Stop bullshitting people here and get to work. You'll pick up valuable skills and you won't have to rely on other people to accomplish your vision.
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But there's the key difference, you're doing this for a living, you have a very valid reason to devote time and resources to something like this. I'm currently going to college to hopefully become a doctor, and my incentive for this project stops beyond it being anything more than just a nice idea that I can waste time on.
Of course I would like to be able to do the things that you do, but as soon as summer is over, I would be back in college and would have very little time for any of it.
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Because you're not farking doing anything. You're posting shitty models that other people made and acting like the only thing you're capable of being is the "ideas guy" - everyone is the ideas guy. It's why Chronojam ruined APB after I left. He can't do any of the actual work on the project, so he relies on other people to carry it for him. I'm sure some turd will go over there and say "WAH!" TEH AIRKRAFTKARRIAR SAID TEH BAD TINGS BOUT U" but he knows it's the truth. It's why APB is dead, and has been dead for a long time.
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Well I could say that other than the ideas guy I'm the recruiting guy and the "make sure the model looks like the reference" guy, but they're not very lofty positions either.
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You were given advice. Many times over, in fact. I hate tooting my own horn, but I have more experience in 3D than everyone in this forum. I'm telling you something you need to hear. In the words of Dante: SHUT UP AND MOD
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Although time isn't really on my side in this case, I suppose it never hurts to try. Do you have any software recommendations?
Check out our IndieDB page here: http://www.indiedb.com/games/tiberian-dawn-the-first-strike
Also check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/FirestormProductions2010
[Updated on: Sun, 15 June 2014 09:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Tiberian Dawn: The First Strike [message #487864 is a reply to message #433126] |
Mon, 16 June 2014 10:37 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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My trolling is all good natured, I don't hate you. I'm not posting this to shit on your dreams. All I'm telling you is what Polycount was trying to get across to you before you gave up and moved on.
The reason nobody from PC helped is the same reason why you're having difficulties finding dedicated, professional artists - the body of work isn't there
Right now, I'm building the town of Night Vale from http://www.commonplacebooks.com in Unreal, and I'm not showing it to anyone but some friends on Facebook until I'm convinced that I could possibly get other people to help make a Night Vale game a reality - but to do that, I have to spend a lot of my personal time making professional art pieces before anyone would even consider helping out
I think you'd be best served letting it go and focusing on medical school. Game development isn't for everyone. It's a lot of stress and requires a lot of effort on the part of everyone working on a project
[Updated on: Mon, 16 June 2014 14:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Tiberian Dawn: The First Strike [message #487871 is a reply to message #487868] |
Mon, 16 June 2014 22:18 |
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OuTSMoKE
Messages: 52
Registered: April 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Bfranx wrote on Mon, 16 June 2014 14:01 |
Even if they aren't professionals, I still have people on my team, and I can't just stop if they still want to work.
I mean, that just doesn't seem right to me.
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At the rate they get work done, I doubt they'd care if you pulled the plug. ACK is right though, I see eye to eye with his opinions, he just has a more delicate way of getting them across. 
If you're truely only hanging on because you're worried about hurting them, just hand the project over to them and wash your hands of it.
Kambot NewMaps 4.1 Marathon Server Owner
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| Re: Tiberian Dawn: The First Strike [message #487964 is a reply to message #487961] |
Sat, 21 June 2014 18:53 |
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Bfranx
Messages: 152
Registered: July 2010
Location: Oklahoma, United States
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 21 June 2014 12:44 |
the game has no foundation
after years and years of construction, all you've done is draw up structural ideas and blueprints without actually making anything
so technically, since nothing has been made there's really nothing to lose
that's why we're so puzzled - you don't seem to realize it lol
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I do know that it doesn't have a foundation, I acknowledged that and explained it a couple of posts ago.
But as it stands right now I have several assets nearing completion and I want to see if they can do anything to help the situation.
| UnitXc wrote on Sat, 21 June 2014 15:40 |
this thread is one of the saddest ive seen for a long time
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I'm sorry you feel that way.
Check out our IndieDB page here: http://www.indiedb.com/games/tiberian-dawn-the-first-strike
Also check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/FirestormProductions2010
[Updated on: Sat, 21 June 2014 18:54] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Tiberian Dawn: The First Strike [message #488323 is a reply to message #433126] |
Thu, 03 July 2014 17:26 |
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Bfranx
Messages: 152
Registered: July 2010
Location: Oklahoma, United States
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Anyway, now that the silliness is hopefully behind us, I have something that may interest someone out there.
As I said before, the 3D artist who was working on the Advanced Power Plant, Advanced Guard Tower, Airstrip, and Chain-link Barrier left before he could finish everything.
All of our other 3D artists are working on models of their own, so if anyone is interested in finishing up the Airstrip, Advanced Power Plant, or Chain-link barrier, they're welcome to it.
I'll attach some progress shots.
They're currently .fbx files, but I can more than likely get them in any file type you need.
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Attachment: anr1.jpg
(Size: 83.30KB, Downloaded 285 times)
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Attachment: anr2.jpg
(Size: 134.12KB, Downloaded 271 times)
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Attachment: anr4.jpg
(Size: 228.48KB, Downloaded 281 times)
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Attachment: air1.jpg
(Size: 96.12KB, Downloaded 273 times)
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Attachment: CLB1.jpg
(Size: 62.49KB, Downloaded 288 times)
Check out our IndieDB page here: http://www.indiedb.com/games/tiberian-dawn-the-first-strike
Also check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/FirestormProductions2010
[Updated on: Thu, 03 July 2014 18:47] Report message to a moderator |
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