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| Re: MPF banning players for being extremely good at a 11 year old game [message #482124 is a reply to message #481997] |
Thu, 20 June 2013 06:38   |
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Sat, 15 June 2013 00:40 |
There's nothing inherently fun about Renegade's engine and the bad graphics, though. To be totally blunt, both APB and Reborn look marginally worse than Renegade. The models in Renegade may not be the most detailed, but their textures make up for it with baked-in lighting and a consistent art style. APB/Reborn models have a ton of polygonal detail but the look of the mods is worse in comparison to Renegade.
Renegade looks good for what it is, a moderate amount of detail packed into tight spaces. APB/Reborn look bad in comparison because they've got sparse detail spread across massive maps. That also engenders the issues with gameplay being repetitive, boring, and honestly kind of shallow. Renegade wasn't much better, but at least you don't have to wait five minutes between battles while you trek across a gigantic map and hope for the best. Of course, City\Flying has this same issue but to a lesser extent.
Another *real* problem with APB is the fanbase. As Agent Gibson (The guy who founded the mod with me and L3f7H4nd3d) said back in 2004, paraphrased: "All that's left of this mod is the lunatic fringe. There's no reason to develop for it anymore. I'd rather work on something modern without the weirdos that devote their life to a single game."
You can see this in APB's fanbase. Quite a few of them are just downright strange people. The developers are generally pretty good, but the fans are fucking crazy. Look at this thread as an example:
Alucard, on 11 Jun 2013 - 23:34, said:
and you're making me physically cry right now because of your treatment to me which is outright cyber bullying.
When the caliber of your forum-goers is people like that, and a clique-like atmosphere permeating the place, no amount of advertising is going to make people want to play. It's a toxic environment. People can go play free games that don't:
1) Have a toxic community
2) Have bad graphics
3) Have bad gameplay
I'd love to see them dig out of this. The projects they're doing have potential, but they're not going to live up to that potential if they don't actively work on it. Reborn's dropped to 7 players, by the way. I'd be pretty sad/pissed if I spent 10 years on a mod, only to see it flounder a week or two after release.
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Well, I agree with what you said and most of the models I textured for Reborn recently were done to be used on w3d and something else in the future (if that happens, it might be without me). I had fun to work on this during 10 years, I learnt a ton of stuff and I really enjoyed to work on the mod. I am still doint it btw. The fan base for C&C Fps is small and I don't see it grow anyway. I can deal with that. I am not sad at all, I am quite proud of the work done. It was a nice experience. And I hope the few that played and will play it will enjoy it as much as I do.
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| Re: MPF banning players for being extremely good at a 11 year old game [message #482134 is a reply to message #482124] |
Thu, 20 June 2013 16:52 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 1
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General (5 Stars) |
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| Renardin6 wrote on Thu, 20 June 2013 09:38 |
Well, I agree with what you said and most of the models I textured for Reborn recently were done to be used on w3d and something else in the future (if that happens, it might be without me). I had fun to work on this during 10 years, I learnt a ton of stuff and I really enjoyed to work on the mod. I am still doint it btw. The fan base for C&C Fps is small and I don't see it grow anyway. I can deal with that. I am not sad at all, I am quite proud of the work done. It was a nice experience. And I hope the few that played and will play it will enjoy it as much as I do.
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I'm sure you had fun on it. If you do the work for the sake of the work, then it should be something enjoyable. What my point has been through this thread is that Reborn didn't need to die the moment it was born. "BHP" needs to rebrand itself. Drop the "BHP" shit and restructure the way things are ran. Get rid of the Internet Friends Clique mentality. Get the word out to the public once the forums have been cleansed of the putrescent stench of Internet Friends Clique.
I'd wager most people who want to play a game are interested in it because it's not a chore. Chronojam turned that place into a SomethingAwful clone with 0.005% of the SA community's population, and the only people who tend to comment regularly are the weirdo fucks that spend their lives counting the number of bolts on a tank from 1995.
If you want Reborn to succeed, push them to get out of the Internet Friend Clique and start marketing these mods to the general Internet. The only people who know about Reborn right now are the people who followed it for years, and a lot of them have already given up and moved on after a couple of weeks.
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| Re: MPF banning players for being extremely good at a 11 year old game [message #482176 is a reply to message #482134] |
Fri, 21 June 2013 21:13 |
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Pyryle
Messages: 30
Registered: November 2010
Karma: 0
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Thu, 20 June 2013 16:52 |
Get the word out to the public once the forums have been cleansed of the putrescent stench of Internet Friends Clique.
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I tried my hand at spreading the word of Reborn to most of the people I go to school with, and most of them did not appear to have much interest in it because either they think the graphics look rather dated, which is understandable since most FPS-playing people nowadays want eye candy in their games, and/or they are not too familiar with the C&C series in general.
As for me, I continue to play Reborn and the rest of the Bluehell projects not just because I test them internally with the rest of the BHP team, but because they represent in my opinion an extension of Renegade through their multiplayer. My most favorite C&C is RA1 and when I found out (in early 2006) that RA1 was turned into a FPS, I just had to play it without realizing or understanding its unit balances at the time, just because of the amazing idea of playing as one of your favorite units.
Also, who are you referring to by weirdo fucks? Is it the dev team, or the actual wierdos that discuss in the public forums? (when you see a guy named APB_ICE, ask him about the Illuminati)
In regards to that, I am not offended by such association just because I perform my testing duties with them. Like what Iran said, there is much entertainment to be had with this and surrounding communities, including BHP, regardless of who is doing what and why.
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| Re: MPF banning players for being extremely good at a 11 year old game [message #482201 is a reply to message #482176] |
Sat, 22 June 2013 18:16 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 1
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General (5 Stars) |
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| Pyryle wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 00:13 |
I tried my hand at spreading the word of Reborn to most of the people I go to school with, and most of them did not appear to have much interest in it because either they think the graphics look rather dated that modern games should hold up to modern visual standards, which is understandable since most FPS-playing people nowadays want eye candy industry-standard visuals in their games, and/or they are not too familiar with the C&C series in general.
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FTFY
| Pyryle wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 00:13 |
As for me, I continue to play Reborn and the rest of the Bluehell projects not just because I test them internally with the rest of the BHP team, but because they represent in my opinion an extension of Renegade through their multiplayer. My most favorite C&C is RA1 and when I found out (in early 2006) that RA1 was turned into a FPS, I just had to play it without realizing or understanding its unit balances at the time, just because of the amazing idea of playing as one of your favorite units.
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But they're so mismanaged that they end up dying right after release. Reborn should be averaging 24 to 40 players right now. It's been less than a month since release. It currently has 15 players on a Saturday night. That's pretty terrible, honestly. If it were promoted better and they moved on to an engine that could compete with free games released today (I'll keep comparing it to Star Trek Online since it's free and looks vastly better), they'd actually get a fanbase that's more diverse than the "lol I sit on TS with these guys all night" crowd.
It's the Internet community equivalent of in-breeding. There's very few of you left over there who post regularly. There's little innovation, and the player counts are dwindling. The majority of fans saw the writing on the wall years ago and left in droves.
| Pyryle wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 00:13 |
Also, who are you referring to by weirdo fucks? Is it the dev team, or the actual wierdos that discuss in the public forums? (when you see a guy named APB_ICE, ask him about the Illuminati)
In regards to that, I am not offended by such association just because I perform my testing duties with them. Like what Iran said, there is much entertainment to be had with this and surrounding communities, including BHP, regardless of who is doing what and why.
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I clearly stated that I think most of the mod teams are pretty decent people. I get along with most of them. There's a few exceptions. The only real entertainment I get from "BHP" is doing a cursory glance at the forum and seeing someone like that "alucard"/Guts kid talking about how he's literally crying because he got banned from a mod for a day.
[Updated on: Sat, 22 June 2013 18:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: MPF banning players for being extremely good at a 11 year old game [message #482204 is a reply to message #482201] |
Sat, 22 June 2013 20:33 |
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Pyryle
Messages: 30
Registered: November 2010
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 18:16 |
If it were promoted better and they moved on to an engine that could compete with free games released today (I'll keep comparing it to Star Trek Online since it's free and looks vastly better), they'd actually get a fanbase that's more diverse than the "lol I sit on TS with these guys all night" crowd.
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What is your opinion on Renegade X? I never really got to play it myself.
And you do have a point that sitting on TS with the same group of people all day will not draw in more people, much like how a close-knit community would act rather hostile to outsiders, which is pretty much what has been going on most of my days joining the TS to be quite honest.
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 18:16 |
It's the Internet community equivalent of in-breeding. There's very few of you left over there who post regularly. There's little innovation, and the player counts are dwindling. The majority of fans saw the writing on the wall years ago and left in droves.
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I guess you can count me as part of the dwindling playerbase. I just started fundamental nursing classes here which for sure will take up more of my time and effort compared to helping in the development of a free game. It's not to say however that I'm going AWOL on the team, though.
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 18:16 |
I clearly stated that I think most of the mod teams are pretty decent people. I get along with most of them. There's a few exceptions. The only real entertainment I get from "BHP" is doing a cursory glance at the forum and seeing someone like that "alucard"/Guts kid talking about how he's literally crying because he got banned from a mod for a day.
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Yeah, I do agree that alucard is rather hard-headed in a discussion. As funny and unfortunate as it was, I am also disappointed in him for losing his shit by that much.
Seriously,
| Ilya Bryzgalov |
It's only game! Why you heff to be mad?
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| Re: MPF banning players for being extremely good at a 11 year old game [message #482208 is a reply to message #482204] |
Sat, 22 June 2013 21:04 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 1
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General (5 Stars) |
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| Pyryle wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 23:33 |
What is your opinion on Renegade X? I never really got to play it myself.
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RenegadeX is shit. At least as far as I'm concerned. It holds the dubious distinction of being the only program I've installed that has blue-screened Windows 7.
| Pyryle wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 23:33 |
And you do have a point that sitting on TS with the same group of people all day will not draw in more people, much like how a close-knit community would act rather hostile to outsiders, which is pretty much what has been going on most of my days joining the TS to be quite honest.
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Color me shocked. I'm not used to rational replies to anyone challenging the Internet clique mentality. You're earning a lot of respect from me with that attitude.
| Pyryle wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 23:33 |
I guess you can count me as part of the dwindling playerbase. I just started fundamental nursing classes here which for sure will take up more of my time and effort compared to helping in the development of a free game. It's not to say however that I'm going AWOL on the team, though.
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It's a simple fact of gaming: People play what's fun. Even if they don't have a lot of time, they'll make the time to play something they enjoy. APB is not fun. It hasn't been fun for years. Consequently, the players have disappeared. When I still ran the project, it was certainly bug-ridden and not as "polished" as you could call it now, but it had players. The release of 9934 (IIRC? Version numbers escape me 9 years later) had two full 32+ player servers. My shitty old GeForce 4600 could barely handle it. I had to wait to join because there was a queue. Every time someone dropped someone else would hop back in and keep both servers full. Contrast that with today's APB.
| Pyryle wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 23:33 |
Yeah, I do agree that alucard is rather hard-headed in a discussion. As funny and unfortunate as it was, I am also disappointed in him for losing his shit by that much.
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He accused me of hacking into his account a couple of years ago. I don't remember why but it was some dumb bullshit he fabricated in his head. Something like "HURRDURR U WERE ADMIEN BEFORE SO U NO TEH PASW0RDZ 2 HAX0RZ MY ACOUENTS LOL"
PS: Don't mistake my disappointment in "BHP" with wanting them to be failures. I worked on APB and kept it alive for a long time. If I didn't pick up the project after Agent Gibson quit, it would've faded into obscurity and you likely wouldn't be here. I'd like to see it succeed, but it hasn't really done well for a very long time. It's time to move this thing to a modern game engine instead of trying to mod something on life support.
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| Re: MPF banning players for being extremely good at a 11 year old game [message #482253 is a reply to message #480854] |
Mon, 24 June 2013 08:31 |
Generalcamo
Messages: 522
Registered: October 2010
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Most of them are hesitant to move to a new engine. I honestly don't see why, as they could easily port over most of their assets (except for Reborn, as they don't have most of the assets) to a new engine like UDK. The engine is 11 (or 15 years old if you count when the engine was in development), which is pretty old for an engine, especially one that hasn't had any updates. Granted, the still used Source Engine is also old, at 9 years old (16 years old if you count development years) but at least it had updates to bring it up to modern standards.
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