Home » Archived Forums » RenGuard Client » My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'.
| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46520] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 08:53  |
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Xtrm2Matt
Messages: 1318
Registered: February 2003
Location: England, UK
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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My only concerns in 'RenGuard' are:
A) What it scans. What SPECIFIC Directorie(s) does it scan, and what files.
B) CD Keys. How can we trust 'RenGuard' that it won't steal any serials we have on our PC's? What do we do.. just take Crimson's, mac's or someone else's word for it? HaH! Anyone can say it doesn't when it does, so how can we trust you in this?
C) Botnets. I have seen Botnet-Scripts binded into applications, and it works. How can we trust that you won't do the same? (With the rumors of Crimson's botnet on QuakeNet)
Really, without solid proof how can WE trust YOU? (The RenGuard team). I have often seen Crimson refer to herself as the "Community Leader", which she isn't because no-one is the "Community Leader", but people may believe this is true. Some people will also believe anything she would say. If she said (for example) that Final-Renegade (the cheat program) had a Trojan in (which both Crimson & Blazer said), which for the records, IT HASN'T / DIDN'T, people believed that..
When i asked people in #n00bstories for Logs of their Anti Virus Scanner, or Firewall showing "Final-Renegade.exe" as a Virus, or accessing the internet, the conversation went something like this:
Xtrm2Matt: has anyone got any proof of Final-Renegade being a trojan?
Nick1: yes
Nick2: yes
Nick3: yes
Nick4: yes
Nick5: yes
Xtrm2Matt: show me the logs of your scanners then
Nick1: Oh.. don't have them
Nick2: deleted them
Nick3: what logs?
Nick4: i was lieing
Nick5: Ummm, i don't have logs, it doesn't save them
..You get my point?
Now until the RenGuard team can proove that it doesn't scan for CD-Keys.. install a Botnet onto your PC.. make your PC turn into Windows ME.. make your Monitor blow up.. or anything like that,
so basically, the bottom line is.. HOW CAN WE TRUST THIS APPLICATION?
- Matt
http://www.OpticalGaming.com || irc.OpticalGaming.com
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| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46531] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 09:09  |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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You know, I installed Enemy Territory this week, and it installs PunkBuster...It tells you that it's installing it, and says you don't have a choice, in fact it says "You WILL be using PunkBuster while you play". Did I freak out? No. Did I say OMG it might be botnetting me? No.
I would say that anyone with a firewall such as ZoneAlarm etc can verify it has no botnet trojan, but you would then just counter that it could be programmed to only connect to the botnet at certain times/dates.
We can basically argue this point forever back and forth, but the fact is, its not the APPLICATION that you do not trust, its Crimson. But guess what, she is not programming it...not a single line of code.
If you don't trust Renguard, then use whatever method that satisfies you to verify its integrity. Since you yourself have a botnet, you should know what to look for  Of course you always have the option of not using it, and you can play on all the servers swarming with cheaters. It sounds to me like you are being untrustworthy of the wrong people.
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| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46537] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 09:15 |
fl00d3d
Messages: 1107
Registered: August 2003
Location: Iowa, USA
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Viva la Resistance! |
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This is EXACTLY why I started Tsunami.
And damnit, "RenGuard Team" shut Crimson up. She brags too much about a program that:
(1) Has no sourcecode for display
(2) Has no alpha or beta released yet
(3) Violated logo copyrights (renegade logo)
I mean, cmon ... you're not better than anyone else. Get off the ego trip.
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| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46544] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 09:28 |
djlaptop
Messages: 160
Registered: February 2003
Location: Hollywood, CA, USA
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| fl00d3d |
(1) Has no sourcecode for display
(2) Has no alpha or beta released yet
(3) Violated logo copyrights (renegade logo)
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Hmmm... Where is your sourcecode? Where is your alpha or beta? And isn't your logo stolen from CoolText.com?
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| Re: My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46545] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 09:30 |
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Dante
Messages: 1039
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Xtrm2Matt |
My only concerns in 'RenGuard' are:
A) What it scans. What SPECIFIC Directorie(s) does it scan, and what files.
B) CD Keys. How can we trust 'RenGuard' that it won't steal any serials we have on our PC's? What do we do.. just take Crimson's, mac's or someone else's word for it? HaH! Anyone can say it doesn't when it does, so how can we trust you in this?
C) Botnets. I have seen Botnet-Scripts binded into applications, and it works. How can we trust that you won't do the same? (With the rumors of Crimson's botnet on QuakeNet)
Really, without solid proof how can WE trust YOU? (The RenGuard team). I have often seen Crimson refer to herself as the "Community Leader", which she isn't because no-one is the "Community Leader", but people may believe this is true. Some people will also believe anything she would say. If she said (for example) that Final-Renegade (the cheat program) had a Trojan in (which both Crimson & Blazer said), which for the records, IT HASN'T / DIDN'T, people believed that..
When i asked people in #n00bstories for Logs of their Anti Virus Scanner, or Firewall showing "Final-Renegade.exe" as a Virus, or accessing the internet, the conversation went something like this:
Xtrm2Matt: has anyone got any proof of Final-Renegade being a trojan?
Nick1: yes
Nick2: yes
Nick3: yes
Nick4: yes
Nick5: yes
Xtrm2Matt: show me the logs of your scanners then
Nick1: Oh.. don't have them
Nick2: deleted them
Nick3: what logs?
Nick4: i was lieing
Nick5: Ummm, i don't have logs, it doesn't save them
..You get my point?
Now until the RenGuard team can proove that it doesn't scan for CD-Keys.. install a Botnet onto your PC.. make your PC turn into Windows ME.. make your Monitor blow up.. or anything like that,
so basically, the bottom line is.. HOW CAN WE TRUST THIS APPLICATION?
- Matt
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Matt, i have made it a personal effort to ensure the security of this app and system, and that it does valid things, i can read the language it is written in, and i can understand what it is doing, and will be evaluating the source code upon completion when this is done, and before it is release.
now, fl00d3d, before you go all "stupid" on what i just said.
i have many apps running throughout this Renegade community RIGHT NOW, and have built the trust of the players as my software is clean and legit. So don't even go to "well if you say it is good, should that be enough?" type thing.
Why no beta "here is a head start on how to go around our app"
Why no source "here is the methods we use so you can go around the app"
btw, the idea of the ant-cheat mod was great, but don't ever confuse a .pkg file compiled of given resources from a gaming company as a program, this just goes to show, you know about as much about what you are talking about as i know who you are...
RenEvo
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| Re: My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46555] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 10:25 |
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K9Trooper
Messages: 821
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Xtrm2Matt |
My only concerns in 'RenGuard' are:
A) What it scans. What SPECIFIC Directorie(s) does it scan, and what files.
B) CD Keys. How can we trust 'RenGuard' that it won't steal any serials we have on our PC's? What do we do.. just take Crimson's, mac's or someone else's word for it? HaH! Anyone can say it doesn't when it does, so how can we trust you in this?
C) Botnets. I have seen Botnet-Scripts binded into applications, and it works. How can we trust that you won't do the same? (With the rumors of Crimson's botnet on QuakeNet)
Really, without solid proof how can WE trust YOU? (The RenGuard team). I have often seen Crimson refer to herself as the "Community Leader", which she isn't because no-one is the "Community Leader", but people may believe this is true. Some people will also believe anything she would say. If she said (for example) that Final-Renegade (the cheat program) had a Trojan in (which both Crimson & Blazer said), which for the records, IT HASN'T / DIDN'T, people believed that..
When i asked people in #n00bstories for Logs of their Anti Virus Scanner, or Firewall showing "Final-Renegade.exe" as a Virus, or accessing the internet, the conversation went something like this:
Xtrm2Matt: has anyone got any proof of Final-Renegade being a trojan?
Nick1: yes
Nick2: yes
Nick3: yes
Nick4: yes
Nick5: yes
Xtrm2Matt: show me the logs of your scanners then
Nick1: Oh.. don't have them
Nick2: deleted them
Nick3: what logs?
Nick4: i was lieing
Nick5: Ummm, i don't have logs, it doesn't save them
..You get my point?
Now until the RenGuard team can proove that it doesn't scan for CD-Keys.. install a Botnet onto your PC.. make your PC turn into Windows ME.. make your Monitor blow up.. or anything like that,
so basically, the bottom line is.. HOW CAN WE TRUST THIS APPLICATION?
- Matt
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And with your background, why should anyone trust you? You threaten to DDoS people in public :rolleyes:
R.I.P. TreyD. You will be missed, but not forgotten.
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| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46571] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 12:21 |
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Xtrm2Matt
Messages: 1318
Registered: February 2003
Location: England, UK
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Blazer |
You know, I installed Enemy Territory this week, and it installs PunkBuster...It tells you that it's installing it, and says you don't have a choice, in fact it says "You WILL be using PunkBuster while you play". Did I freak out? No. Did I say OMG it might be botnetting me? No.
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Ok, for one, PunkBuster was released by the makers of RTCW - Enemy Territory
| K9Trooper |
And with your background, why should anyone trust you? You threaten to DDoS people in public :rolleyes:
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Hmm, your most proberly talking about WSE and me then. Threaten to DDoS people in public? Nah, i threatened someone once, mayb twice about this. As my quote says,
I'm not hated for who i am, I'm hated for who i was.
However,
| Dante |
Matt, i have made it a personal effort to ensure the security of this app and system, and that it does valid things, i can read the language it is written in, and i can understand what it is doing, and will be evaluating the source code upon completion when this is done, and before it is release.
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If theres 1 person i actually trust, or like in this Forum, it's Dante. If Dante gives the head's up, great.
| Majiin Vegeta |
if you dont trust it dont use it..
i dont see why people are all negative about this..
why would a group of people loyal to this community for *insert months here*
are gonna fuck the cummunity over by releasing an app thats gonna give ya a trojan or steal ya seriel..
Quote:
If she said (for example) that Final-Renegade (the cheat program) had a Trojan in (which both Crimson & Blazer said), which for the records, IT HASN'T / DIDN'T, people believed that..
to fool the idiots out there who wanted to download it.. that they would get a virus if they did.. so they dont download it....
scare them away you could say
you like this with every program sumone makes?
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Ok, | Quote: |
if you dont trust it dont use it..
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-- IF YOU DONT INSTALL IT, YOU CAN'T PLAY ON ANY SERVER THAT IS USING IT, Geezus.
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why would a group of people loyal to this community for *insert months here*
are gonna fuck the cummunity over by releasing an app thats gonna give ya a trojan or steal ya seriel..
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Maybe because people have trust in some people, i.e Crimson. So why not? Hey! Lets steal their serial numbers because they trust us!!!!!1111
| Majiin Vegeta |
you like this with every program sumone makes?
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Let's get this straight, i hate Final-Renegade, i hate the Big-Head Skins / Mods. I like the person who released it however, Ty aka Abarrat. Really, i don't give a shit who doesn't like me, OR who doesn't like me for who i like (confusing really), but lets get this straight, the community members cannot choose my friends, i choose my friends and i stay loyal to them.
I have known Ty for nearly 2 years, longer than i known 99.8% of you for, we have never fell out, and i consider Ty a good friend. Along with Adam, aka Revolt who you all see as a bad person.
Don't get me wrong people, i hate Cheaters, i hate Cheats, i don't hate everyone, however, i hate the people i wish to hate, not the people you want me to hate.
- Matt
http://www.OpticalGaming.com || irc.OpticalGaming.com
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| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46639] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 15:35 |
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Dante
Messages: 1039
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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blargh, yes you WILL have to download a client application in order to report the correct information to the server, now, i will talk to the team about releasing exactly what we are scanning, only we won't tell you how or for what, as to keep that secure.
anywayz, you could always use regmon, filemon, portmon to see exactly what the app is scanning, as well as where it is connecting.
RenEvo
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| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46665] |
Fri, 12 September 2003 04:43 |
fl00d3d
Messages: 1107
Registered: August 2003
Location: Iowa, USA
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Viva la Resistance! |
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nox:
"Lets go on to my next victim, FLOODED:
You are full of shit too!!!
DONT YA SEE THEY CANT GIVE OUT THE SOURCECODE!?
Why do you ask for the source now!? Why didnt you ask for the source when Dante made the other programs!? How about [BR] ??
No alpha or beta is released.... WELL DOH!!!!! Why the fuck should they do that??? So that the community has to download an update over and over again!???
And please dont even begin about logo copyrights!!! You don't know shit about the Renegade Community websites, fanpacks, copyrights and I bet you dont even know wtf HTML is!"
(1) I guess that's the same reason they didn't realease sourcecode for any Red Hat kernels or programs, huh? Because they were worried about hackers finding errors in the code. Your argument does not hold weight. If you knew ANYTHING about open-source projects, you would understand why it is done and the advantages of it. You're probably a Microsoft-drone, aren't you? "Must ... obey ... Bill ..."
(2) Dante's program isn't a world class program in my opinion. I have enough knowledge to produce my own software. And visual basic is one of the easiest programming languages out there (in my opinion).
And heaven forbid you'd have to "update" ... what a concept!
(3) I'm sure that when Crimson got her "permission" to run an official forum it was nothing more than a formal request by a professional. Companies don't have problems with things like that -- so it's not that unique. As for the logo, if you read the copyright information you'll notice that anyone can download, save, etc the logos (as you can with most logos for anything on the internet) as long as you do not manipulate it or misrepresent it. " ... as long as you do not manipulate it or misrepresent it". How long did it take to edit that graphic in Microsoft Paint? Probably not that long.
(4) Yeah, I don't know shit about websites, fanpacks, or copyrights ... whatever. My guess is that you're a 14 year old kid like most of the people out there that thinks he's an elite Renegade player, elite hacker, professional programmer, and webmaster all in one. Well guess what, punk? I'm a 22 year old PROFESSIONAL network security analyst with former black hat experience. I have a fairly extensive background in programming (various languages). And HTML is about as easy of a language (if not easier) as vB. In fact, I think it's much easier.
And to sumarize my argument against you, I will challenge you to *ANYTHING*. Writing a better program ... cracking a code ... hacking a website ... anything. Why do I challenge you? Because I'm convinced that you're a complete moron based on what you wrote to me. You have no idea who you're talking to.
I think a lot of you have a warped perception of who I really am just because I religiously played Renegade along with everyone else. That was a hobby people. You have no idea who I am in real life.
So, Nox, bring it!
~fl00d3d~
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| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46666] |
Fri, 12 September 2003 04:50 |
fl00d3d
Messages: 1107
Registered: August 2003
Location: Iowa, USA
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Viva la Resistance! |
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TO THE RENGUARD TEAM:
You guys are doing great work. I just posted to Crimson yesterday apologizing for some of the accusations I've made. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt --- though we'll never really know for sure until the program is released and tested.
TO DANTE REGARDING MY LAST POST:
Please don't be offended by my post about BlazeRegulator coding. You know just as well as I do that Visual Basic is not a terribly difficult language to program in.
I'm not saying that you're not good at what you do or that BlazeRegulator is a bad program. I'm just saying that people shouldn't get all high and mighty on people like me with the same knowledge as you just because I haven't released a program. It's a cool utility.
TO THE REST OF THE RENEGADE COMMUNITY:
Multiple groups are working on anti-cheats. To the best of my knowledge the RenGuard team is working on the most robust solution so give them your support. There will always be those that try to figure out a way around it, but if we work together we can quickly fix that.
~fl00d3d~
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| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46713] |
Fri, 12 September 2003 10:42 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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| fl00d3d |
TO THE RENGUARD TEAM:
You guys are doing great work. I just posted to Crimson yesterday apologizing for some of the accusations I've made. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt --- though we'll never really know for sure until the program is released and tested.
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Please pick a side and stay with it. Every other day you switch from 'Okay I guess you guys are doing an okay job' to 'Ok now I will switch from helping the community to destroying the community'. We really don't care if you doubt us or not. RenGuard WILL be released. Servers WILL run it, and you WILL have to install it to play on said servers. If you insist on being paranoid and narrowminded then you can simply not install it or play on those servers. You have done nothing but bash us from day one that you came from nowhere, and frankly I'm tired of defending myself and the team against your ravings and comparisons of experience (yet you claim you are not bragging). I am 34 years old and have worked with computers since my first which was a Timex Sinclair 1000. I have had computer systems/network/security jobs all my life. I had a sysadmin job at my high school, I had one at my university, I had one for the state goverment, for Qwest Communications, and Cisco Systems. I have been compensated by several companies for doing penetration tests and doing security analysis. I have been alive on this earth over 10 years longer than you, and its safe to say I have more experience than you in almost any regard except apparently your skill at being obnoxious. Now that we have seen whose cock is bigger as far as experience goes, we can drop that subject.
| fl00d3d |
Please don't be offended by my post about BlazeRegulator coding. You know just as well as I do that Visual Basic is not a terribly difficult language to program in.
I'm not saying that you're not good at what you do or that BlazeRegulator is a bad program. I'm just saying that people shouldn't get all high and mighty on people like me with the same knowledge as you just because I haven't released a program. It's a cool utility.
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Since when did Dante or anyone get high and mighty? YOU are the one that demanded to know the teams credentials. The fact that Dante, djlaptop, me, and mac have released programs to the community is simply an indication that we work FOR the community and have an interest in making things that people find useful, so its absurd to insinuate that we are untrustworthy and/or have alterior motives like stealing serial numbers. Its common knowledge that I was the one who exposed the first and only trojan released by FlyingBuzz that actually tried to steal serials, why would I want to steal them for myself? [/quote]
| fl00d3d |
Multiple groups are working on anti-cheats. To the best of my knowledge the RenGuard team is working on the most robust solution so give them your support. There will always be those that try to figure out a way around it, but if we work together we can quickly fix that.
~fl00d3d~
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You tell the community to give us support, meanwhile make a post saying you are now going to destroy the community and make hacking theats...PLEASE CHOOSE A POSITION AND STAY WITH IT...WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?
http://www.renevo.com | 
http://strike-team.net/forums/ | XWIS Forums
http://www.n00bstories.com | Crimson is the 0wnage, and I Love her!
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| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46872] |
Sat, 13 September 2003 06:22 |
Iris2003
Messages: 19
Registered: September 2003
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Quote: |
Blazer wrote:
You know, I installed Enemy Territory this week, and it installs PunkBuster...It tells you that it's installing it, and says you don't have a choice, in fact it says "You WILL be using PunkBuster while you play". Did I freak out? No. Did I say OMG it might be botnetting me? No.
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What I find odd about the above statement is the fact you falsified the truth when posting about Final Renegade, I am actually surprised you didn’t jump up and down screaming " Oh punk buster is infected”, because you sure as hell did about Final Rene and I cant seem to find any virus that you mentioned.  In short you have not told the truth.
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Posted: Saturday, August 23rd, 2003 at 02:34am
Crimson: No, please do NOT download that file. You will become an unwilling slave to Ty's botnet. Virus scanner might not, probably WILL NOT, pick them up.
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Posted: Saturday, August 23rd, 2003 at 02:34am
Blazer: 1. that is not msgtpain, its Ty/Abbarat using his hacked password.
2. The files he is offering are indeed virus/trojans. DO NOT DOWNLOAD THEM.
Source: http://www.n00bstories.com/n00bfile_view.php?id=3611
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Both the self-proclaimed community leader and Blazer ( GF & BF , Both on the Renguard Team) have lied about Final rene, I realized this when I downloaded the application myself to check it out firsthand and also to validate what xtrmatt is saying.
I have found people whom lie usually lie more then once, some people say "Oh why would they want out Serial numbers”, Well in short they can use your serial numbers to ban you as well as prevent you from playing Renegade via sitting on your Serial number with a bogus account.
I would have no problem using Renguard if Blazer could answer just 1 question with a truthful response..
why you have lied about this Final rene being infected with some type of virus ?
Iris
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| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46904] |
Sat, 13 September 2003 09:31 |
NHJ BV
Messages: 712
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| majikent |
| Iris2003 |
why you have lied about this Final rene being infected with some type of virus ?
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Here's a better question. Why the fuck does it matter? It's a cheat, and you shouldn't be downloading it in the first place.
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Exactly.
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| My personal concerns, and opinions about 'RenGuard'. [message #46989] |
Sat, 13 September 2003 15:55 |
fl00d3d
Messages: 1107
Registered: August 2003
Location: Iowa, USA
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Viva la Resistance! |
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Blaze. Good on you.
But what about your peers? What about the people that work with you that are older than you? Are they more experienced that you? At least that's what I'm deducing from your statement.
Further, I never had the cozy sysadmin job at my high school. No, I was too busy hacking the network. Now, one could sucessfully argue that it is much harder to secure a network than it is to attack one. I agree. But I'm sure you had a limited knowledge of the OS at that time and you were more or less creating user accounts.
You flame on me for starting a "competition to see who has the larger balls" ... yet you continue to rave about your life and your accomplishments. You should do what I've done, and just stop talking about yourself and move on.
http://www.n00bstories.com/renforums/viewtopic.php?t=7406&start=14
Work on RenGuard so people can stop bickering about its release. If people want to download it, they will. Otherwise they'll remain suspicious until the day its released as an official patch (which will be never) --- and they'll never have anything to do with it.
Let me give you a recommendation. Take it or leave it.
Explain how the cheats work. Each of them individually. Yes, you may think this is counter productive to your cause, but hear me out.
Then explain exactly what your product does to counter this. You don't have to release code ... (maybe have some people outside your group verify this) ... but put it in dummy language for people that don't understand the technicals behind it. This way they'll have more faith it what you're doing -- and if your program does something other than what you've explained, they can sue your ass.
Please stop the flaming. I've already made the post (you read above) that says I've stopped ... so please move on. Focus your energy on RenGuard and not flaming. Same with the rest of you.
And look into HALO. It looks like a cool game. 
Regards,
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YOU DARE CHALLANGE ANYBODY WHO AT LEAST TRY TO MAKE ONE
