| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462306 is a reply to message #462302] |
Mon, 06 February 2012 16:37   |
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Omar007
Messages: 1711
Registered: December 2007
Location: Amsterdam
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General (1 Star) |
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| PermaGrin wrote on Mon, 06 February 2012 17:13 |
BD was a test bed for UDK MP. And while being a test case, it was also a promotional tool.
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| PermaGrin wrote on Mon, 06 February 2012 17:13 |
All efforts are now being focused towards MP.
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Quoting myself here:
| Omar007 wrote on Tue, 31 January 2012 22:14 |
Making a SP game to then revamp it for MP is a bad approach. A lot of time and problems are prevented if it would've been made with MP in mind. I'm afraid that since this is a SP release, this is not the case. If it is, my apologies to the team but then explain why a SP release first? 
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| PermaGrin wrote on Mon, 06 February 2012 17:13 |
Had to be pushed out seeing how it was already late for the deadlines set by EA, Valve/Steam, UDK, etc...
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Wait what? Deadlines set by EA, Steam and Epic Games?
Why does that sound unlikely to me... 
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462312 is a reply to message #462306] |
Tue, 07 February 2012 01:21 |
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sla.ro(master)
Messages: 610
Registered: September 2010
Location: Romania
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Colonel |
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off topic: to make a full single player campaign you need a lot of work.. storyline, many detailed maps, voice actors, ingame cinematic and other more.
on: Renegade X (Black Dawn too) doesn't really fells like Renegade anymore. if they will fix this, then maybe more ren players will play this.
Creator of Mutant Co-Op
Developer of LuaTT
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462316 is a reply to message #462106] |
Tue, 07 February 2012 11:49 |
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PermaGrin
Messages: 285
Registered: June 2004
Location: Winter Park, Fl
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Why do you ask WHY when I just stated as a test platform per-say.
As to why for the "test" that I can not comment on. I only helped in animations and this choice was made before I joined them. I am going to say it is because, while many might think time was wasted on the SP, many things were learned and changed because of it that will be applied to MP.
Why not just do MP? There are more things to revamp and redo for an MP release than for the SP. More characters, more weapons, more buildings, interiors, more maps, more effects, more sounds, more vehicles, more more more. Many things that were done for the SP (cant really comment on code) from the art side, can easily now be used and reused in MP.
Allow me to take animations as an example. Over 50 animations were created per weapon. Some were reused and edited. SP only contained 5 weapons states....250 animations. Now lets to MP with nearly all weapons...never mind the new states we want to add. Now lets take into account those 250 were made and based on the Havoc model. It will probably be rare, but I might need to revamp some sets for alternate character models. This example does not take into account extra idle animations, filler animation, extra travel animations (ladders, etc...) Now with all that, lets do some math. If our research / testing time for the rig and setup + all the animation time took as long as it did, then if we applied all this to the MP release....we would all still be waiting to see anything and most of all, the team would still be waiting to learn whatever it did.
As far as you not believing the timeline statement. I can careless who believes what. I know what was stated on the internal forums, I seen the multiple emails back and forth. If you know better, then why ask for the answers...
[Updated on: Tue, 07 February 2012 11:59] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462319 is a reply to message #462106] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 07:44 |
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PermaGrin
Messages: 285
Registered: June 2004
Location: Winter Park, Fl
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Without listing specifics?
Did I not just say I was not around for that choice and that even if I was, I do not know most of the gibberish that is talked about the code side of things. So that is why there are no specifics.
I never said "MP was harder", I state MP would have taken longer...
You are on the outside, get inside and then you can read up on all of the specifics. Im not going to copy and paste our internal discussions on such things just to ease your mind.
Far too long to develop?
Coming from my position as someone that helps create games in a 5 month cycle from scratch for over the past 7 years, yes I too think it is taking longer than needed. But I am also of the mindset, I joined someone else project. They deem the timeline and features, I only provide any input I see fit. Some is taken, some is not.
My point I am trying to make is (and people from other projects should see that same), it easy to talk down on what people dont know. I can promise you, most of what people comment on...has been....is being...and will be discussed internally. Just because every decision is not explain in every detail to the public, doesnt mean we just willy-nilly and make crap without rhyme or reason.
I just hope most can see that the deviation was to learn and promote. Hopefully we can now live up to our end and build upon what we learned and then release something BETTER by making this SP before MP than then just releasing MP straight up.
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462335 is a reply to message #462106] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 19:22 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 1
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General (5 Stars) |
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What's the point of holding all of this "internal discussion" if you're going to vaguely allude to it without telling anyone about what's going on? It's like someone who says "I have a secret, but I can't tell you about it." This isn't about your team only. A lot of these "indie" projects decide to keep their fans in the dark and wonder why nobody gives a shit about them. When they're asked what's going on, the answer is always the same: "It's internal! You don't know what we're doing! You can't judge us because it's internal/secret/bullshit!"
I understand that you're just an animator and have no say in the direction they're taking, but this faux secrecy is pointless and does nothing to help them. Having an open development process would be a boon - people love to see things get updated. It's one of the reasons why I enjoy Star Trek: Excalibur. It stays updated regularly and isn't focused on asking for "indiedb" votes or whatever. They simply post news and updates, talk to their fans, etc. They don't hide behind a veil of secrecy; they understand that this is a free game and that the only thing that matters is who plays it. Otherwise it's all for nothing. Giving players an incentive to build a community around their work makes it much more likely to be noticed and played than simply telling them that the discussions are "internal" and cannot be revealed.
[Updated on: Wed, 08 February 2012 19:23] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462408 is a reply to message #462132] |
Wed, 15 February 2012 01:48 |
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JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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the only reason steam&epic would want to see some progress is if fobby wants funding for a commercial release. i don't see how releasing a sp game with terrible gameplay really helps your case in that regard. i doubt the "don't worry guys, just give us some money and we'll add all of these great features because we're indie" really works since minecraft.
better stick with the originals gamers
and play it loud
lol
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462412 is a reply to message #462106] |
Wed, 15 February 2012 10:15 |
iRANian
Messages: 4311
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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I don't really understand why they're using the name 'Renegade-X' when they could use a more appropriate name like 'Call of Battlefield: Renegade skins edition'. Because that's what it is.
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462433 is a reply to message #462106] |
Thu, 16 February 2012 08:28 |
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JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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renegade has the worst character movement ever and this mod looks decent visually...you dorks are just bitching to bitch because all that needs to be said is that they decided to make a singleplayer sequel to noted bad singleplayer game renegade after being incapable of balancing formerly balanced game renegade in HD. there are some talented people working on that mod, but not a single one of them gets the big picture.
there's not a single success story involving the words indie singleplayer fps, what the fuck
lol
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462435 is a reply to message #462429] |
Thu, 16 February 2012 08:55 |
iRANian
Messages: 4311
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 16 February 2012 05:11 |
| iRANian wrote on Wed, 15 February 2012 23:20 |
I don't mind the UT look that much compared to the CoD gameplay. Although the generic UT graphics don't help yeah.
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I meant the feel of the game, not particularly the looks. The characters don't feel smooth or something, like they need a higher gamespeed to function normally.
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Ah, I felt the gameplay was really CoD-like, all the guns have ridiculous recoil, travel time, the main assault rifle has a scope. Other than using the pistol and sniper I had issues telling apart how effective I was shooting when comparing well aimed shooting with randomly spraying in a direction (other than with the pistol and sniper rifle). In the mission where you have to use the gun emplacement I noticed this the most. I was spraying in one direction and still Nod troops were able to get in front of my Gun Emplacement and numbly stand in front of me.
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462439 is a reply to message #462437] |
Thu, 16 February 2012 19:58 |
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Intradox
Messages: 60
Registered: February 2011
Location: United States
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I've never played Renegade X, because I don't own UT3, but is it worth buying ut3 for the MP? Or is it just the single player that isn't so great? I get mixed reviews about this.
Not pro enough at renegade to snipe.
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462441 is a reply to message #462440] |
Thu, 16 February 2012 20:16 |
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Intradox
Messages: 60
Registered: February 2011
Location: United States
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Oh I see. I talked to some other people and they said it was like a failed attempt to make renegade a modern warfare. But hey, they could be wrong.
Not pro enough at renegade to snipe.
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462454 is a reply to message #462449] |
Fri, 17 February 2012 12:55 |
iRANian
Messages: 4311
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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Yeah, I don't understand that either. Because they're going stand-alone they obviously need to add/replace a lot of stuff, but I'm not sure how focusing on a single player campaign really helps, they still need to add everything to support multiplayer. From the earlier comments it seems to be implied they somehow used (lots of) UT3 resources for the maps, but I'm not sure how making a single player campaign helps porting multiplayer maps over in any significant way.
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
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