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| Re: Map rating [message #458094 is a reply to message #372303] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 00:31   |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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Ah see Liquid, there's where our opinion differs. For me, the standard maps are ideally played with 8 to maximum 24 players. This does, of course, change the outcome.
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Nod had Complex, Hourglass, Islands, Mesa, Walls_Flying, and Canyon by the balls
Complex and Islands were a Nod win nearly 4/5 of the time
GDI maps included (surprisingly) City and City_Flying, and Walls
Volcano was nearly dead even, which is why i like it so much
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Islands needs a little "tweak" to make it more even, by allowing the MRLS to shoot the hon from right over the first river. That's actually no tweak, it's just allowing what the map "offers". That way Nod is forced to move up and GDI can pump out their meds to level up the field.
Mesa -> I did mention the deadzones. Mesa2 is actually a GDI map IMO.
Complex -> it's just a matter of surviving the first 5 minutes.
Walls flying -> GDI should be able to beat Nod with their superior rifles, getting crate and killing the Nod harv while protecting their. If they cannot do this, then they very well deserve to loose. If they can do this, then it's simply a matter of med tanks and a few havocs, right?
Canyon -> same as Walls flying.
Volcano is one of my favorite maps.
Generally speaking it is simply easier to win with Nod on public servers because you need less teamplay and the arty spam is just plain obvious. But that doesn't mean the game isn't balanced.
Also in bigger games, which you refer to, the vehicle limit is an immediate advantage for Nod with their arty splash / huge firepower. 7 teched arts will beat 7 repaired meds, but in e.g. 5v5 5 meds will beat 3 arts with 2 techs.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Wed, 19 October 2011 00:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Map rating [message #458097 is a reply to message #372303] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 02:07 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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remove pointbug + infinite infantry ammo + fix mesa deadzones = balanced
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Map rating [message #458098 is a reply to message #372303] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 02:33 |
iRANian
Messages: 4308
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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i doubt allowing mrls to shoot from 1st river on islands will affect much, on jelly marathon thats allowed and nod always is up on score after 30-40 mins. if you have the default vehicle limit it's one vehicle less and it's still easy for arties to roll up to gdi's base. having the mrls shoot from the 2nd river/island is more useful as they can support the meds trying to fend off nod tanks.
mesa with dead zones fixed won't really help much, as long as you have arties+techs who know how to position themselves under the bridge without taking damage from gdi's base and from the guys on the bridge it's more of an annoyance. If nod can get 1-2 arties on long with 1 tech they can also hold off gdi tanks and they could move out to the middle and shoot the gdi tanks on the bridge.
walls fly nod has an easier time pointwhoring with arties, lights are better than meds on the map, saks are a lot harder to kill than havocs and the difference between orca and apache range hardly matters, they do have a harder time at the beginning keeping their harvester alive and if not surviving the first minutes.
Canyon has always been a nod map. Volcano is pretty balanced, but it's more because of the retarded ability to sneak like on glacier, which causes a building to be lost within the first 10 minutes most of the time. Nod has an easier time on the long side of field but they can't tech their arties in the tiberium field on short.
@liquid: you should consider tweaking the med to be quicker and having it do 10-15 more damage. And of course removing the arty screen shake and reducing the splash area (and maybe the damage). the mrls could also do 25% more damage or so, and the rotating turret hurts gdi on field.
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
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| Re: Map rating [message #458101 is a reply to message #372303] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 03:15 |
iRANian
Messages: 4308
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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How do you do that?
and yeah i dont mind playing gdi with a low player count but once theres a decent amount of players it isn't that fun
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
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| Re: Map rating [message #458104 is a reply to message #372303] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 03:48 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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Of course Renegade was made for smaller player counts as well, considering how small most standard maps are. It was created in 2002, when you could hardly get a FPS of 10 with more than 20 players. I don't understand why none of the big communities run servers with smaller player counts anymore.
You'll never be able to really balance things out by changing one or the other vehicle's stats. If you start doing this, you'll rapidly realize that the change you made has an impact on other parts of the game, which will force you to change other values again. The only exception may be the transport heli which really just needs decent armour versus light weapons.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Wed, 19 October 2011 03:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Map rating [message #458115 is a reply to message #458111] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 09:13 |
ehhh
Messages: 2097
Registered: December 2010
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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stock levels are simple and make much more sense then any fan made maps. Anyway arts aren't as over powered as you think they are, perhaps use infinite ammo, if you think gdi aren't as powerful as nod.
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| Re: Map rating [message #458116 is a reply to message #372303] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 09:20 |
iRANian
Messages: 4308
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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how come nod wins some maps 80% of the time with them then?
anyway infinite ammo is just terrible once the killwhoring starts and it makes 1000$ infantry way too powerful, last time i played on a server with that enabled i killed 20-25 arties on field with a jet and i only had to kill myself 2 times because i couldnt be arsed to refill. incredibly lame. i still was ranked 10th or so because i wasnt getting any points for killing/damaging the arties, just for killing infantry, pretty cool
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
[Updated on: Wed, 19 October 2011 09:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Map rating [message #458117 is a reply to message #458116] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 09:30 |
ehhh
Messages: 2097
Registered: December 2010
Location: UK
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General (2 Stars) |
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80? swear it was something like 60, I suppose It's probably because the average player some how finds it diffcult to kill the techs, arts are weak as fuck without them. You can easily kill whore without infinite ammo, imo makes pics/ramjets worth their cost.
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| Re: Map rating [message #458118 is a reply to message #458117] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 10:27 |
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Jerad2142
Messages: 3809
Registered: July 2006
Location: USA
Karma: 6
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General (3 Stars) |
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Harvester probably has to move an extra meter for one team thus slowly delaying their income more and more as the game proceeds, thus giving that team a disadvantage on that map.
| iRANian wrote on Wed, 19 October 2011 10:20 |
anyway infinite ammo is just terrible once the killwhoring starts and it makes 1000$ infantry way too powerful, last time i played on a server with that enabled i killed 20-25 arties on field with a jet and i only had to kill myself 2 times because i couldnt be arsed to refill. incredibly lame. i still was ranked 10th or so because i wasnt getting any points for killing/damaging the arties, just for killing infantry, pretty cool
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46.5 points per artillery means you have to kill 15.5 basic infantry to break even with one arty (assuming no one else is damaging the infantry or the vehicles).
Visit Jerad's deer sweat shop
[Updated on: Wed, 19 October 2011 10:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Map rating [message #458119 is a reply to message #372303] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 10:51 |
ELiT3FLyR
Messages: 119
Registered: April 2008
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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you should consider tweaking the med to be quicker and having it do 10-15 more damage. And of course removing the arty screen shake and reducing the splash area (and maybe the damage). the mrls could also do 25% more damage or so, and the rotating turret hurts gdi on field.
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lol. so retarded
really there is nothing else to it other than the fact that you play a map like islands which was never designed to play with more than like 16 people and play with 50 people. ofcourse nod will win, gdi cant even fit enough tanks through the passages at the same time to kill the arts. then you play city fly or volcano and its much more balanced because the maps are big enough to accomodate more people.
its like playing in a 50player killhouse server on cod4 and then complaining because u think the sniper is too weak. u can buff the sniper if u want, but when u change the map to something bigger its gunna be op as shit.
sure, u can make meds do 15 more damage per shot to balance out a 25v25 islands or complex. then u can go play the fan maps which are retardly open and big and watch gdi win 90%
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| Re: Map rating [message #458122 is a reply to message #458108] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 12:07 |
Sean
Messages: 822
Registered: February 2009
Karma: 0
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| liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 19 October 2011 04:56 |
| Caveman wrote on Wed, 19 October 2011 06:05 |
Also I don't think the MRLS is underpowered at all.. Yeah it sucks when up close against an arty but from a distance, like on field from entrance to entrance my MRLS usually outbeats a arty purely down to 6 lock.
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that's if you get an arty one on one
in a game where there's, say, 15 players on the other team you may not get that opportunity
a teched arty will beat a hotwired mrls in a war of attrition
such is renelife
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You're kidding right?
A good mrls player > a good arty player, in terms of killing the support if you know how to aim the mrls properly.
Head admin at TmX (The Matrix Sniper server)
irc.thematrixserver.com
The Matrix Sniper: 188.138.84.134:4576
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| Re: Map rating [message #458123 is a reply to message #372303] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 12:24 |
ELiT3FLyR
Messages: 119
Registered: April 2008
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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who said anything about applying those changes to fan maps? are you retarded or something?
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no, but you definatly are for even suggesting that meds should do 15 more damage.
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| Re: Map rating [message #458125 is a reply to message #458116] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 12:51 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| iRANian wrote on Wed, 19 October 2011 18:20 |
how come nod wins some maps 80% of the time with them then?
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Probably as I said: the art spam is just plain obvious, so in public server with often little coordination, it wins games.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Map rating [message #458126 is a reply to message #458125] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 12:55 |
ehhh
Messages: 2097
Registered: December 2010
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Simpee is right, making meds more powerful might help islands, but other maps, say field for example, would be dumb.
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| Re: Map rating [message #458127 is a reply to message #458116] |
Wed, 19 October 2011 14:19 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| iRANian wrote on Wed, 19 October 2011 09:20 |
how come nod wins some maps 80% of the time with them then?
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because at least half the people in public servers don't know what they're doing. i don't like saying it but it must be said.
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anyway infinite ammo is just terrible once the killwhoring starts and it makes 1000$ infantry way too powerful, last time i played on a server with that enabled i killed 20-25 arties on field with a jet and i only had to kill myself 2 times because i couldnt be arsed to refill. incredibly lame. i still was ranked 10th or so because i wasnt getting any points for killing/damaging the arties, just for killing infantry, pretty cool
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sorry, what's "killwhoring"? is that killing lots of infantry because the enemy can't kill you? that's a good thing, isn't it? either you're very good or the enemy just plain sucked. none of them could snipe you back, none of them were bright enough to get a heavy vehicle, none of them had the teamwork to gang up on you. so in a nutshell, the enemy had no sniping skill, no teamwork, and not enough of a fucking brain to get any heavy vehicles, against which a havoc/sakura are useless. no, 1000 infantry aren't too powerful with infinite ammo; indeed they aren't worth 1000 unless they have infinite ammo. your opposition just plain sucked. they all got arties and thus they couldn't handle a gdi team that was prepared for arties; if they were bright enough to get some lights as well they would have done better.
this is also why arties are not overpowered, and why nod can't only get arties.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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