Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Time Travel and other stuff.
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 Time Travel and other stuff. [message #89961] |
Tue, 25 May 2004 13:51   |
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Infinint
Messages: 926
Registered: June 2003
Location: USA
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Colonel |
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The way Pay Check explained itself, it should not work, at lest you shouldn’t be able to see into the future, much less navigate around it. Any yes, because if you think about it, all things will happen at certain times due to certain things. This remains true with things that don’t come in contact with living organisms, that is were it becomes tricky. If we had to technology and fast enough computers, we could scan every molecule in a section of universe, then we would be able to predict everything perfectly that would go on in that section, if not for something from outside the section disturbing it. With living things, we would need to understand completely how the mind works, if we could, we could map out the future like you could with that section of space. This could be confusing, you might ask, what if some one makes a different decision, well that’s covered too, the thing that made the person change their decision would also be mapped out, so the machine would know that the person would change their decision. By knowing everything about the person, you can tell exactly how they will react. This method would probibly never work, as you would never be able to see the future as every time you saw it it would change.
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| Time Travel and other stuff. [message #90115] |
Wed, 26 May 2004 03:03 |
Phoenix - Aeon
Messages: 221
Registered: April 2004
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You could model the Solar system but it would be incomplete, consider this, a rogue comet coming from outside the solar system would not be modeled, but coming in on the right trajectory it could have quite an impact on Earth.
One thing that does intrigue me is Asimov's theory of Psychohistory, esentially taking social and historical trends you could create a model of the general, not specific future of humanity. This is goverened by certain laws, the knowledge of the prediction would change it's course, there are no major social or technological changes. The final law is that the subject remains constant, two things visited in his books ar that psychohistory cannot deal with alien species as their social trends are unknown. The other is that a major change in evolution, such as a mutant with telepathic abilities being born, would destroy the prediction. The only real use is that a smnall group could use the prediction to make instrumental changes in order to create the prferred future. Given how unwieldy this science would be it would be virtually impossible to use it for non-altruistic reasons.
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| Time Travel and other stuff. [message #90135] |
Wed, 26 May 2004 05:10 |
Cypher [PCNC]
Messages: 66
Registered: March 2003
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It's basically an application of the Chaos theory, or perhaps....
Read Isaac Asimov's Foundation books.
Harry Saldon, a character in those books, has created a thing called Psycho-History. It explains all the workings of the idea.... However, it also explains, in the later books, why it doesn't work, although the illusion of it working still exists.
The future is not written. But, it is just "simple" math, to calculate what is going to happen next. Then you just change various variables and parameters to affect the future (not change it, cause it hasn't happened yet).
It is the scientific counterpart of Theology's "free will" that God has granted humans.
Frank Herbert, and now Brian and Kevin, explains it with the Guild Navigators, the Mentat Emperor Paul Moad'dib Atreides and the God Emperor Leto Atreides II (the most prominant example).
The latter two see various futures with their presience, their precognitive omnisience.
It's not some magic or divine power that allows them to see futures. It's their evolved mind that does the calculations, that afforementioned "simple" math.
And as Leto II does, in order to achieve his Golden Path he simply enforces those variables and parameters to make that Golden Path come true.
He doesn't predict it, he strives and works for it, knowing the needed data and variables.
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| Time Travel and other stuff. [message #90139] |
Wed, 26 May 2004 05:20 |
Cypher [PCNC]
Messages: 66
Registered: March 2003
Karma: 0
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| Phoenix - Aeon |
You could model the Solar system but it would be incomplete, consider this, a rogue comet coming from outside the solar system would not be modeled, but coming in on the right trajectory it could have quite an impact on Earth.
One thing that does intrigue me is Asimov's theory of Psychohistory, esentially taking social and historical trends you could create a model of the general, not specific future of humanity. This is goverened by certain laws, the knowledge of the prediction would change it's course, there are no major social or technological changes. The final law is that the subject remains constant, two things visited in his books ar that psychohistory cannot deal with alien species as their social trends are unknown. The other is that a major change in evolution, such as a mutant with telepathic abilities being born, would destroy the prediction. The only real use is that a smnall group could use the prediction to make instrumental changes in order to create the prferred future. Given how unwieldy this science would be it would be virtually impossible to use it for non-altruistic reasons.
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Ah damn, didn't see you posting that.
Anyway, what Harry Saldon tried to do was create a controllable environment. Whereas the rest of the old Empire crumbled and even the capital planet of it, once an industrial monolith, has "degraded" into a backwards rural world (seemingly without any importance), the protected planet, the Foundation, that he created continued to evolve based on Saldon's predictions and guidance of his Psychohistorical calculations, or so they thought.
Until the Mule came and plunged them as well, into war. The Mule, however, was not of the Foundation, cause his creation would have been, in theory at least, predictable by the Psychohistory. The Mule was from a completly different planet; the one where they all co-existed with their environment, all people gifted with telekinetic and telepathic powers (the one where that girldfriend of that senator came from - you know... when they had sex, he felt as if the entire planet was experiencing their joy). He was an outcast of that world, since he wasn't able to procreate, hence his name.... He came to the Foundation.
The Other Foundation, or the Second Foundation, I don't remember the exact name of it, was a secret society, an Illuminati like entity, that was based on that once capital world. They were the decendants of Harry's daughter/niece/aid (I don't remember what she was to him), who herself had mental powers (Harry had his own, the fact that he was able to create Psychohistory shows that his mind was more evolved than most humans) and her mission was to find more people like her, to create that second foundation, to regulate and manipulate events to enforce Saldon's Psychohistory predictions of the first Foundation.
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I dunno I watched some show on the discovery channel a few years ago about it. 
