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Re: Intelligent design vs Evolution [message #444655 is a reply to message #444653] Sun, 06 March 2011 18:37 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Starbuzzz
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It's amusing (and sad) to see Christianity hijack the ID movement in the U.S. The question raised is a very valid one; but from what I see, Christian intrusion and claims by theists that the designer is the "Christian God" (are they out of their minds?) have reduced the entire ID movement to a lame laughingstock. The only people worth taking about Intelligence Design is to agnostics who suspect intelligence interference and are able to accept without compromise both "god" AND "alien civilizations" pending identification.

Otherwise, your average ID advocate (such as OP, sorry mate) are Christian intruders into the Intelligence Design movement who have subverted a beautiful question of human curiosity as to our origins and tarnished it with the dark cloak of a vicious man-made religion.

The original question itself is a dead-end. ID advocates and creationists (huge difference) always reach such dead-ends with the question. And then what? OK, you "believe" we are intelligently designed! Great w00t! You win! Awesome now what? Need a cookie naow?

In all seriousness, what will be your next step? So you are convinced and/or managed to convince others we are intelligently designed. So what's next? What is next? Are you seeing the massive void I am seeing? Or are you completely oblivious to it? Where will you go next from then? What's your next progressive step to get confirmation? And most imporantly, how will you deal with the consequences? Please spell it out in writing.

I would wager the next step is to gather as much rationale for the claims...all of which revolve around missing DNA and advanced cellular engineering. Fair enough. And then what? What about the big important questions that would need to be asked?

Who made us then? (citing current gods won't do, what about Ancient Astronauts? Imagine humans going to another planet and dropping off a batch of young humans and cutting off contact. And we show up decades later to find them; what response will we get? Hopefully not a arrow or rock in the head.)

Why exactly did they make us? (to have fun? to mine gold? to kiss their ass to their satisfaction?)

What were their original intentions for their actions? (largescale planetary life experimentation?)

What were their moral standards compared to our own? (considering how barbaric morals were in the past, I would say the moral standard of any Intelligent Designer was shit plus I will add in incompetency and poor forecasting).

What were their expectations for life on earth? (that their creation become powerful enough to kick their asses?)

What was the entire point of them terra-forming Earth (lol) in the first place and engineering life upon it? (were they playing with life?)

Pretty sure many haven't asked themselves these questions; and I am missing many more. Being atheist, I found, is a much more advantageous position to be when in the receiving end of these questions as you don't assume anything. Secondly, atheism (or the humanist stance) prepares us to better defend humanity and our interests to take care of our own.

From what we cleanly gleaned from our recorded history, we used to be barbarians (we still are). Whatever made us, gave no thought about our well-being, loaded us up with shitty morals, ghastly irresponsibility, and in many cases, have exhibited ruthless genocidal tendencies. And if we consider several ancient texts (and take them literally) dating back to ancient Sumer, the so called "gods" used humans to fuel conflict in blatant power-mongerism and pure bloodlust. They were shit and if they showed up again in orbit, need to be killed on sight.

That being said, we are a thousands times better off now than we were then. Firstly, we can think for ourselves, we have a far wider knowledge of our place in the observable Universe, our advanced transportion and communication advances has closely knit our species together that despite our nationalist-tribe-like differences, the potential for a future human unification is now a possibility. Our morals are so much more advanced now and outright superior to what any ancient texts state. And this can only get better. We have come a long way and a good future awaits us as we have realized how vulnerable we are on this planet. Our consicous has expanded and we are a species that no doubt has the stars as our future destinations.

In addition, we have thousands of years of history on this planet. We have made great strides in our journey of self-discovery. We have, firstly, beaten a billion odds of survival by surviving countless natural catastrophes and massive diseases. Of every shit that came flinging our way, we have survived so far despite taking huge losses to both natural disasters and man-made folly. We have learned about the Universe and about ourselves more. We have studied our own bodies quiet well and out of our own ingenuity have increased lifespans and have made life so much easier for ourselves through medicine. We deserve every pat in the back for our accomplishments and we should be extremely proud of accomplishing all these despite the great odds against us when compared to the dangerous brutish lives of our earliest of ancestors.

While we still have barbaric differences and are divided and have plently of in-fighting, driven by greed and a tyrant infalliable thirst for power, we also generally have a self-worth that we ourselves gained all by our own work. We increased our collective "value" as a species and set a standard for life. As such, anything or anyone trying to come in and change shit up and treat us again like slaves just cos they can claim they made us will get a ass kicking war. It's a question of incredible dimensions to our existence; the creationists and ID folks better think about what exactly they are wishing for.

That's the amazing beauty of evolution. It allows for life to flourish where ever the ingredients are present and it also, much to our excitement, adds the unknown factor of our early days; did advanced alien civilizations visit and tamper with Earth and life? As for spirit entities from other dimensions, well we don't know jackshit about them; it's a queer Universe.

Ofcourse, this entire retarded mental exercise wasn't necessary if some of us here have made an effort to understand evolution further.

Finally, someone please tell me why we are obligated to take a stand on this issue? We are still making discoveries, no? Why are we then asked to belong to a group? It comes down to egotism and bandwagons. People want to be right rather than being wrong; this attitude hurts us so much as we get nowhere to the truth. Ordinary folks as ourselves can bicker all we want; atleast the scientific community that drives our quest for discovery are relentless in the pursuit of truth.

We don't have anything to lose by staying vigilant for the answer instead of prematurely jumping to take a side in a divisive debate.

Thousands of years have past since the last time any of those "Ancient Astronauts" (if you choose to give them some credibility) would have appeared and the dumb ancient humans adopted the cargo cult approach. Or we have evolved and have developed our ideas accordingly (most likely); thousands of religions have come and gone. The leading religion today is embarrasingly changing its own lines because of how ridiculous its dogmatic claims are starting to sound (lol), and it's apparent all of them are wrong. So despite our difference of opinions and stance, we really have only one choice: to find the answer and confirm it and then deal with the consequences of the truth without sacrificing our dignity and self-worth we have earned thru thousands of years of cumulative hard work spanning countless generations.

In a related note, this is why I can never see myself leaving atheism and becoming agnostic cos it will get me absolutely nowhere and I already tried that approach before.

Here's some fun: Can you imagine if the ID folks were right? That some aliens did create us and that the aliens turned out to be highly advanced but downright murderous like the Predators? Being right won't matter for shit then. So I will repeat, be careful what you wish for.

edit: typos

[Updated on: Sun, 06 March 2011 19:14]

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