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| Re: Protest the Pope [message #443615 is a reply to message #443611] |
Sun, 06 February 2011 12:12   |
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Spoony
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let's not go thinking it's just a case of negligence either. the current pope instructed all local catholic authorities to report all cases of rapes of children to him and only him, instructing them that talking to anyone else about it would mean being thrown out of the church and going to hell (the other people he says are going to hell are non-catholic Christians and non-Christians; oddly enough i don't think he's ever said that child rapists end up there).
can anyone point to a single case, out of the thousands and thousands and thousands of catholic priests raping children all over the world, where the pope has gone to the local law and said "i've been made aware that one of my employees raped a child, here is everything i know about the matter, good luck with your investigation"? i put it to you that if you become aware of an adult who has raped a child, you stop whatever the fuck you're doing and you go to the police and tell them everything you know.
instead, he shields them from the law, victims are threatened and bullied into silence, and when people say WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS (as is finally starting to happen) he acts like we're the nazis and they're the jews, we're persecuting them.
(the irony of that is that the catholic church was persecuting the jewish people centuries before the nazis came along, and was an enthusiastic supporter of european fascism)
seriously, how much more depraved could a group be? if it was mcdonalds acting this way we'd shut them down. i haven't even started on its policy on condoms, which is a whole separate bucket of inhumanity.
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Protest the Pope [message #443623 is a reply to message #443618] |
Sun, 06 February 2011 15:38 |
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Spoony
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| bmr_71 wrote on Sun, 06 February 2011 12:59 |
Pope's doing what he believes is for the greater good. No shit he doesn't approve of child rape, but for sure he isn't willing to destroy the religion he blindly believes in due to a few bad apples.
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when it's an institutionalisation of child rape and a systematic cover-up by the top brass, it's no longer "a few bad apples". or if it is a few bad apples, they're in charge.
he's also pretty dense if he thinks covering it up will be better for his church than throwing out these monsters and turning them over to the law
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Why does it bother you so much anyway?
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yeah, who cares about kids getting raped? who cares about the millions of people dying every year from AIDS while the pope lies to them about condoms cos he thinks that's better than admitting the pope a few decades ago was wrong? if you don't care about this sort of thing, boomer, what do you care about? i really would like to know.
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If you all really gave a fuck about people, you'd be doing something for them.
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like raising awareness about the situation, encouraging open debate... and supporting a secularist group in the UK which has done a great deal to campaign against this vile old slug of a pope.
National Secular Society
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Really we just want to win internet points on internet discussions.
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what are you talking about?
as for the pictures, i don't think i've ever said "religion is holding me back", although it does oppose democracy and freedom of speech in the UK, so it wouldn't be inaccurate if i did.
and i don't set out to annoy christians, but if saying the pope ought to be asked some fucking serious questions in front of a court does annoy christians as a side-effect then it's a price worth paying. i'd annoy everyone on the planet if it prevented one kid being raped by a priest, how about you?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Protest the Pope [message #443636 is a reply to message #443632] |
Mon, 07 February 2011 01:14 |
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Starbuzzz
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| (SSnipe) -BLU3Y3Z- wrote on Mon, 07 February 2011 00:25 |
wow spoony really? another anti-religion crusade............
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Where will Hindus go after they die?
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| Re: Protest the Pope [message #443643 is a reply to message #443632] |
Mon, 07 February 2011 06:13 |
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Spoony
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firstly, blu3y3z, do you wanna have a crack at my reply to your last comment about religion?
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 14 January 2011 04:02 |
| (SSnipe) -BLU3Y3Z- wrote on Fri, 14 January 2011 04:45 |
I always thought of it this way, if there is a god, why take your chances? if there is not a god then ok but if there is, its to late your fucked when you die
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this is what religion always boils down to in the end... threats.
by "take your chances" i presume you mean being honest about having doubts about the extremely specific claims made by religion, bearing in mind the complete lack of evidence for them.
secondly, belief isn't a choice. i don't know how your mind works, but i can't choose to believe something even if i'm threatened with punishment if i don't.
thirdly, there are several contradictory religions who make this threat. the pope says only catholics are going to heaven and other non-catholic christians are going to hell with all the other atheists. some protestant churches say the same thing in reverse. islam says all non-muslims are going to hell. who's right, blu3y3z? which of these if any are correct, and which are liars and frauds?
fourthly, you're saying this god of yours is going to torture people just for not being convinced of his existence (again, see above re: complete lack of evidence). what a colossal prick. what a cruel, merciless monster this god of yours seems to be. you want to worship something as evil as that? what does this say about you?
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but its more then that its a faith that brings you happiness and most people who I know who are religious are good hard working people, while most people who dont believe him so they think they can create all chaos they want which led to horrible things. Yes alot of people take religion and turn it into something bad cults, terrorist, but we only notice them for that reason while more of the world has crime create form the ones who don't believe.
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interesting you say that. you're pro-torture and anti-freedom of religion, and the reason you take these extraordinary positions is religion. you wouldn't think that if it wasn't for religion, surely.
you talk about people "taking religion and turning it into cults and terrorists". well, i presume you consider yourself a moderate, yet you're anti-freedom of religion and pro-torture as a punishment for not being the right religion. as for the fundamentalists, i hope you're aware that islamic jihadism isn't a misinterpretation or corruption of the quran and hadith. i invite you to read them.
"most people don't believe him so they think they can create all chaos they want" - the religious always like to find a hidden agenda for anyone who doesn't believe their extremely specific claims. it can't be because you've got fuck all evidence or because your holy book is revolting, can it?
"more of the world has crime create form the ones who don't believe."
in america, the proportion of prison inmates who are atheists is significantly lower than the proportion of atheists in the free population. i wouldn't necessarily argue that this proves anything, but you said it. as for the rest of the world, the more secular countries always do best in societal health - low crime, good education, good health, low teenage pregnancy etc.
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if someone said i was pro-torture and anti-freedom of religion, i would definitely want to correct them.
secondly...
| (SSnipe) -BLU3Y3Z- wrote on Mon, 07 February 2011 00:25 |
wow spoony really? another anti-religion crusade............
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yes, here's yet another case of a religion behaving in an almost indescribably evil manner. as if we needed another. you'll notice i've generally left Sikhs and Quakers alone, for example; why do you think that might be?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Protest the Pope [message #443648 is a reply to message #443632] |
Mon, 07 February 2011 11:49 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
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| (SSnipe) -BLU3Y3Z- wrote on Mon, 07 February 2011 00:25 |
wow spoony really? another anti-religion crusade............
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Anti religion? I don't see him ranting about religion in whole, so much as it is ranting about Christianity, Judaism (well, maybe not so much Judaism), and Islam (which are all basically the same thing, anyways). Probably because they've caused the most bloodshed in the history of mankind.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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[Updated on: Mon, 07 February 2011 11:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Protest the Pope [message #443698 is a reply to message #443643] |
Tue, 08 February 2011 17:36 |
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Starbuzzz
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| (SSnipe) -BLU3Y3Z- wrote on Fri, 14 January 2011 04:45 |
I always thought of it this way, if there is a god, why take your chances? if there is not a god then ok but if there is, its to late your fucked when you die
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Would a just God prefer to be joined in paradise by a honest, brave person who believed what his eyes and reason told him about reality or a mistaken, dishonest, cowardly one who did whatever was necessary to gain immortality?
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| Re: Protest the Pope [message #443701 is a reply to message #443653] |
Tue, 08 February 2011 19:27 |
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Spoony
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 07 February 2011 14:40 |
| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sun, 06 February 2011 13:17 |
Agreed. When you have the power to stop something terrible from happening and know it's happening, then you're just as bad as the person doing it.
And let's face it, the pope could easily stop that shit.
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I disagree with this too.
Someone who has the power to stop something but chooses not to should not be held accountable.
Like it or not they have the right to decide what they should and should not do.
Sure, someone who chooses not to stop something bad from happening can be called a selfish, monumental douche who doesn't deserve anyone's respect, but that's really it. Like I said before, you can't punish someone for having morals that conflict with your own... no matter how much you don't like it, you have to grin and bare it. It should not be possible for any law to hold them accountable for anything... regardless of how heinous the crime is or how easy it would have been for them to stop it.
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are you reading what we're saying about the pope's personal role in creating a systematic ministry of coverups?
we're not talking about someone who notices his friend smoke a joint here, we're talking about someone who, faced with his employees committing one of the most appalling crimes imaginable - the rape and torture of children (don't call it "abuse" by the way, that's much too soft a word), deals with it by instructing them to talk to nobody but him, if you talk to anyone else about it (the police) you'll be thrown out of the church and you'll go to hell, bullying and coercing the victims into signing secrecy agreements, and shifting people he knows to be dangerous to new parishes. is there no law about conspiracy to conceal a crime? how about intimidation of victims? according to you "it should not be possible" for the law to do anything about this sick, evil slug of a man.
finally, comments like this:
"Like I said before, you can't punish someone for having morals that conflict with your own..."
make me think you were reading a different thread and replied in this one by mistake
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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| Re: Protest the Pope [message #443703 is a reply to message #436653] |
Tue, 08 February 2011 19:43 |
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R315r4z0r
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I wasn't trying to argue with you. In fact, I wasn't even trying to contribute to whatever you are arguing about.
I have no idea what you're talking about in this thread and nor do I care. I therefore am not partaking in either side of this argument. I don't recall ever saying I either supported or opposed the Pope.
I did find what someone said agreeable and what someone else said disagreeable though. That is why I bothered making a post in the first place and a counter post in the second. Neither of which are about the Pope specifically, just moral code in general.
[Updated on: Tue, 08 February 2011 22:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Protest the Pope [message #443721 is a reply to message #436653] |
Wed, 09 February 2011 12:09 |
newcheese
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Recruit |
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the truth is, spoony's just butthurt and hates religion (with reason, of course).
he's probably that annoying relative that always has to talk about politics and religion in family get togethers because his life is really uninteresting.
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| Re: Protest the Pope [message #443724 is a reply to message #443721] |
Wed, 09 February 2011 12:42 |
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Spoony
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| newcheese wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 12:09 |
the truth is, spoony's just butthurt and hates religion (with reason, of course).
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if you insist on joining the argument (you did say you were done with it, but that didn't seem to last very long) do you maybe wanna read what the person you're angry at is actually saying? there are quite a few statements of mine you ought to read, or maybe you just have a tough time admitting that they stumped you.
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he's probably that annoying relative that always has to talk about politics and religion in family get togethers because his life is really uninteresting.
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the only person in my family i tend to talk politics and religion with is my dad, cos he finds them interesting too. try to keep ad hominem to a minimum, boomer; attack my arguments all you like.
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Spoony, are you gay or were you sexually abused?
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if i was criticising racism, would you ask me my ethnicity? does it matter?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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