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| Google [message #442508] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 05:22  |
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MUDKIPS
Messages: 214
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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So, two things have happened recently that have me extremely worried.
Yesterday, google forced YouTube account holders to link their YouTube accounts to google acounts, otherwise they would not be able to access them anymore. Now, for people like us, that's no problem, we just make a fake google account and voila.
But the majority of people on YouTube are NOT like us. For instance children, or fathers, or housewives, etc. They will make a real google account, with all their personal information (including their phone number, as is recently introduced). This will enable google to link people's YouTube accounts, and all their viewing habits, to their personal information.
Now, here's the second bit of news. Companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Yahoo, Steam, etc. Use separate servers in Europe and America to store their data (and all the personal information they hold). Google however stores most of their privacy-sensitive data in the USA. This makes it far and far and far easier for the American government to access all that information, than if they had a separate European server for European members' personal information.
When a number of European citizens and companies complained about this ridiculous state of affairs, a google jurist at a symposium says: "Customer's shouldn't whine. We don't offer a villa you can decorate yourself, but an apartment, with all the benefits of the cloud at the lowest prices."
Now, normally, I wouldn't mind, but... Google is a company that is rapidly expanding. Right now there are a number of independent sites that do have my personal information, what if they get taken over by google too?
Also, don't forget the American Patriot Act.
This is an EXTREMELY dangerous development.
My (dutch) source: http://webwereld.nl/nieuws/105348/google-weigert-data-in-europa-te-houden.html
This is also interesting: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jan/06/google-streetview-south-korea
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| Re: Google [message #442536 is a reply to message #442516] |
Wed, 12 January 2011 11:55  |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| cmatt42 wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 15:24 |
Break out the tinfoil hats.
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Iknow you american lot can't do much about it, but your privacy laws suck, if they exist at all (I mean, the government can request pretty much any information at any time because of "terrorism"). However, for information about a EU citizen stored in the EU, the governments are not so easily able to get the information (needs a court warrant and such).
So, for American people this may not be a huge deal, but for EU-citizen it does actually make a different, presuming you care about privacy.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Google [message #442574 is a reply to message #442508] |
Thu, 13 January 2011 03:25 |
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Spyder
Messages: 1070
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Can't say I care even one bit. I'm not hiding anything, I have a clean record...
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| Re: Google [message #442588 is a reply to message #442583] |
Thu, 13 January 2011 07:52 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 04:23 |
| Spyder wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 11:25 |
Can't say I care even one bit. I'm not hiding anything, I have a clean record...
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A dangerous statement, do you realize that? Now you may not have anything to hide, but it's impossible to say what the future might bring.
You know that because the Netherlands had a very good citizen registration system with a lot of information like religion and other rather unimportant info, the nazi's where able to kill a whole lot of dutch jews during WWO2?
Now I'm not saying this will happen again, but it is rather difficult to get privacy sensitive information removed once it's stored somewhere.
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If I have something to hide that's truly worth hiding, I probably shouldn't be allowed to hide it.
The problem with your example isn't in the information being stored, but in the Nazis running around killing people.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Google [message #442591 is a reply to message #442588] |
Thu, 13 January 2011 10:27 |
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| Dover wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 14:52 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 04:23 |
| Spyder wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 11:25 |
Can't say I care even one bit. I'm not hiding anything, I have a clean record...
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A dangerous statement, do you realize that? Now you may not have anything to hide, but it's impossible to say what the future might bring.
You know that because the Netherlands had a very good citizen registration system with a lot of information like religion and other rather unimportant info, the nazi's where able to kill a whole lot of dutch jews during WWO2?
Now I'm not saying this will happen again, but it is rather difficult to get privacy sensitive information removed once it's stored somewhere.
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If I have something to hide that's truly worth hiding, I probably shouldn't be allowed to hide it.
The problem with your example isn't in the information being stored, but in the Nazis running around killing people.
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It would've been harder (not impossible) to find them if that data wasn't found / didn't exist.
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
Toggle Spoiler
| BBC news, quoting... |
Supporters of Proposition 8 will argue California does not discriminate against gays, as the current law allows them to get married - as long as they wed a partner of the opposite sex.
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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| Re: Google [message #442635 is a reply to message #442588] |
Thu, 13 January 2011 23:24 |
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MUDKIPS
Messages: 214
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Dover wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 08:52 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 04:23 |
| Spyder wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 11:25 |
Can't say I care even one bit. I'm not hiding anything, I have a clean record...
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A dangerous statement, do you realize that? Now you may not have anything to hide, but it's impossible to say what the future might bring.
You know that because the Netherlands had a very good citizen registration system with a lot of information like religion and other rather unimportant info, the nazi's where able to kill a whole lot of dutch jews during WWO2?
Now I'm not saying this will happen again, but it is rather difficult to get privacy sensitive information removed once it's stored somewhere.
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If I have something to hide that's truly worth hiding, I probably shouldn't be allowed to hide it.
The problem with your example isn't in the information being stored, but in the Nazis running around killing people.
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| Re: Google [message #442657 is a reply to message #442591] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 06:14 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| CarrierII wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 09:27 |
| Dover wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 14:52 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 04:23 |
| Spyder wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 11:25 |
Can't say I care even one bit. I'm not hiding anything, I have a clean record...
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A dangerous statement, do you realize that? Now you may not have anything to hide, but it's impossible to say what the future might bring.
You know that because the Netherlands had a very good citizen registration system with a lot of information like religion and other rather unimportant info, the nazi's where able to kill a whole lot of dutch jews during WWO2?
Now I'm not saying this will happen again, but it is rather difficult to get privacy sensitive information removed once it's stored somewhere.
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If I have something to hide that's truly worth hiding, I probably shouldn't be allowed to hide it.
The problem with your example isn't in the information being stored, but in the Nazis running around killing people.
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It would've been harder (not impossible) to find them if that data wasn't found / didn't exist.
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Also, if gunpowder was never invented, nobody would ever have gotten shot. It's all the Chinese's fault!
There's no holding back progress. Every advance that humanity has ever made has the potential to be abused. It's nobody's fault but humanity's for not being grown up enough to handle it. Sit and think about it for a minute. What reasonable, rational person would say "Hey, we should have a really shitty census system, just in case we get invaded by Nazis!"?
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Google [message #442658 is a reply to message #442635] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 06:16 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| MUDKIPS wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 22:24 |
| Dover wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 08:52 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 04:23 |
| Spyder wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 11:25 |
Can't say I care even one bit. I'm not hiding anything, I have a clean record...
|
A dangerous statement, do you realize that? Now you may not have anything to hide, but it's impossible to say what the future might bring.
You know that because the Netherlands had a very good citizen registration system with a lot of information like religion and other rather unimportant info, the nazi's where able to kill a whole lot of dutch jews during WWO2?
Now I'm not saying this will happen again, but it is rather difficult to get privacy sensitive information removed once it's stored somewhere.
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If I have something to hide that's truly worth hiding, I probably shouldn't be allowed to hide it.
The problem with your example isn't in the information being stored, but in the Nazis running around killing people.
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| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Google [message #442668 is a reply to message #442635] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 11:24 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| MUDKIPS wrote on Fri, 14 January 2011 01:24 |
| Dover wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 08:52 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 04:23 |
| Spyder wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 11:25 |
Can't say I care even one bit. I'm not hiding anything, I have a clean record...
|
A dangerous statement, do you realize that? Now you may not have anything to hide, but it's impossible to say what the future might bring.
You know that because the Netherlands had a very good citizen registration system with a lot of information like religion and other rather unimportant info, the nazi's where able to kill a whole lot of dutch jews during WWO2?
Now I'm not saying this will happen again, but it is rather difficult to get privacy sensitive information removed once it's stored somewhere.
|
If I have something to hide that's truly worth hiding, I probably shouldn't be allowed to hide it.
The problem with your example isn't in the information being stored, but in the Nazis running around killing people.
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Actually, no. That doesn't sound like the US at all...
I would first say that the US is communist before I would even support the idea of it being fascist.
But it isn't even about the government. It's all about the people. As time goes on, the responsibilities of upholding a country driven by the people become easier and easier until they can pretty much be done autonomously. That means that people will soon forget how to handle their responsibilities and push it all onto someone else (namely loud mouth politicians.)
The people don't care about the Constitution except for when they break the law and need a loophole to avoid arrest. Any time else they just want to go about their superficial, meaningless lives.
The president is supposed to represent the ideals of the people. But who the hell is he representing when the vast majority of people don't bother to pay attention to what he says and does?
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| Re: Google [message #442669 is a reply to message #442657] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 13:07 |
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| Dover wrote on Fri, 14 January 2011 13:14 |
| CarrierII wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 09:27 |
| Dover wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 14:52 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 04:23 |
| Spyder wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 11:25 |
Can't say I care even one bit. I'm not hiding anything, I have a clean record...
|
A dangerous statement, do you realize that? Now you may not have anything to hide, but it's impossible to say what the future might bring.
You know that because the Netherlands had a very good citizen registration system with a lot of information like religion and other rather unimportant info, the nazi's where able to kill a whole lot of dutch jews during WWO2?
Now I'm not saying this will happen again, but it is rather difficult to get privacy sensitive information removed once it's stored somewhere.
|
If I have something to hide that's truly worth hiding, I probably shouldn't be allowed to hide it.
The problem with your example isn't in the information being stored, but in the Nazis running around killing people.
|
It would've been harder (not impossible) to find them if that data wasn't found / didn't exist.
|
Also, if gunpowder was never invented, nobody would ever have gotten shot. It's all the Chinese's fault!
There's no holding back progress. Every advance that humanity has ever made has the potential to be abused. It's nobody's fault but humanity's for not being grown up enough to handle it. Sit and think about it for a minute. What reasonable, rational person would say "Hey, we should have a really shitty census system, just in case we get invaded by Nazis!"?
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Your mistake is in assuming I think that - I was merely indicating it was unfortunate, not proof of the census system's EVIL!!!!
As to the topic, I just don't have an account with google...
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
Toggle Spoiler
| BBC news, quoting... |
Supporters of Proposition 8 will argue California does not discriminate against gays, as the current law allows them to get married - as long as they wed a partner of the opposite sex.
|
| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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| Re: Google [message #442671 is a reply to message #442591] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 13:58 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| CarrierII wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 18:27 |
| Dover wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 14:52 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 04:23 |
| Spyder wrote on Thu, 13 January 2011 11:25 |
Can't say I care even one bit. I'm not hiding anything, I have a clean record...
|
A dangerous statement, do you realize that? Now you may not have anything to hide, but it's impossible to say what the future might bring.
You know that because the Netherlands had a very good citizen registration system with a lot of information like religion and other rather unimportant info, the nazi's where able to kill a whole lot of dutch jews during WWO2?
Now I'm not saying this will happen again, but it is rather difficult to get privacy sensitive information removed once it's stored somewhere.
|
If I have something to hide that's truly worth hiding, I probably shouldn't be allowed to hide it.
The problem with your example isn't in the information being stored, but in the Nazis running around killing people.
|
It would've been harder (not impossible) to find them if that data wasn't found / didn't exist.
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Carrier is right here. While somethings may be a gray area legal wise, it is impossible to say that there never will be something like this ever again. Hell, it is even LIKELY that something like this will happen again, the only question is when.
If you read 1984 you'll understand that there are a lot of similarities between now and the situation described in the book, minus the violence and the oppression of the people.
It is also a known and proven fact that governments tend to expand rather than shrink, and while expanding they also try to gain more and more power.
Edit: oh and just for reference:
I can identify 7 items that are not unknown to some of today's "civilized" western countries.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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[Updated on: Fri, 14 January 2011 14:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Google [message #442689 is a reply to message #442508] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 21:42 |
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Ryu
Messages: 2833
Registered: September 2006
Location: Liverpool, England.
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| MUDKIPS wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 12:22 |
So, two things have happened recently that have me extremely worried.
Yesterday, google forced YouTube account holders to link their YouTube accounts to google acounts, otherwise they would not be able to access them anymore. Now, for people like us, that's no problem, we just make a fake google account and voila.
But the majority of people on YouTube are NOT like us. For instance children, or fathers, or housewives, etc. They will make a real google account, with all their personal information (including their phone number, as is recently introduced). This will enable google to link people's YouTube accounts, and all their viewing habits, to their personal information.
Now, here's the second bit of news. Companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Yahoo, Steam, etc. Use separate servers in Europe and America to store their data (and all the personal information they hold). Google however stores most of their privacy-sensitive data in the USA. This makes it far and far and far easier for the American government to access all that information, than if they had a separate European server for European members' personal information.
When a number of European citizens and companies complained about this ridiculous state of affairs, a google jurist at a symposium says: "Customer's shouldn't whine. We don't offer a villa you can decorate yourself, but an apartment, with all the benefits of the cloud at the lowest prices."
Now, normally, I wouldn't mind, but... Google is a company that is rapidly expanding. Right now there are a number of independent sites that do have my personal information, what if they get taken over by google too?
Also, don't forget the American Patriot Act.
This is an EXTREMELY dangerous development.
My (dutch) source: http://webwereld.nl/nieuws/105348/google-weigert-data-in-europa-te-houden.html
This is also interesting: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jan/06/google-streetview-south-korea
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Welcome to the Business, were organizations data mine your information, viewing habits and specifically advertise at you, since it's the easiest way to make legitimate money from the Internet. Tin foil hat much?
Presence is a curious thing, if you think you need to prove it... you probably never had it in the first place.
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| Re: Google [message #442691 is a reply to message #442508] |
Fri, 14 January 2011 22:57 |
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Gen_Blacky
Messages: 3250
Registered: September 2006
Karma: 1
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General (3 Stars) |
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Clear your cookies, block 3rd party cookies or don't save any of them that's how they track your viewing habits any one can do it. You can also use options like private browsing with Internet Explorer and Firefox almost all browsers have this feature now.
[Updated on: Fri, 14 January 2011 23:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Google [message #442703 is a reply to message #442508] |
Sat, 15 January 2011 06:27 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Never will I understand what people are trying to hide in situations like this. Their porn stash? What is Google going to do with that?
At the worst, the ads I get are going to be targeted to me and therefore have a higher degree of actually being of any remote interest to me. Oh, the humanity!
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Google [message #442706 is a reply to message #442703] |
Sat, 15 January 2011 08:04 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Dover wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 14:27 |
Never will I understand what people are trying to hide in situations like this. Their porn stash? What is Google going to do with that?
At the worst, the ads I get are going to be targeted to me and therefore have a higher degree of actually being of any remote interest to me. Oh, the humanity!
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Until google thinks it's a good idea to sell your (e-mail) adres, name and entire family to some v1agr4 selling company, because google knows you're watching porn all day.
Other more terrible things are also possible, but they are listed above. Arguments you choose to ignore. I know you might not have noticed it (being a patriotic American and everything), but the American government during Bush have been selling out on privacy big time.
Privacy is freedom, freedom to not be spied on while you're not doing anything harmful. As Benjamin Franklin said "He who sacrifices freedom for (temporarily) safety deserves neither safety or freedom.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Google [message #442734 is a reply to message #442706] |
Sat, 15 January 2011 17:33 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 07:04 |
| Dover wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 14:27 |
Never will I understand what people are trying to hide in situations like this. Their porn stash? What is Google going to do with that?
At the worst, the ads I get are going to be targeted to me and therefore have a higher degree of actually being of any remote interest to me. Oh, the humanity!
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Until google thinks it's a good idea to sell your (e-mail) adres, name and entire family to some v1agr4 selling company, because google knows you're watching porn all day.
Other more terrible things are also possible, but they are listed above. Arguments you choose to ignore. I know you might not have noticed it (being a patriotic American and everything), but the American government during Bush have been selling out on privacy big time.
Privacy is freedom, freedom to not be spied on while you're not doing anything harmful. As Benjamin Franklin said "He who sacrifices freedom for (temporarily) safety deserves neither safety or freedom.
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I'm not sure which is sillier, the thought that I'm some kind of super-patriotic American or that someone needs Viagra for porn.
Since you're a resident of this place we call the internet, I'm pretty sure I don't need to tell that spam emails happen with or without Google selling your email address. And even if they were to, it's an annoyance at worse, not the "EXTREMELY dangerous development" you and Mr. MUDKIPS seem to think it is.
The other arguments listed above are fucking silly. What if Nazis take over Google? Then they'd have my email address and can send me threatening spam! Oh no! I guess we better destroy all records and maps, so the Nazis can't find my house when they take over! Probably a good idea to do away with the mailman, he comes to my house every day and could tell the Nazis everything! And I'm such Ben Franklin is rolling over in his grave at the though of YouTube accounts and Google accounts being linked. It's an affront to everything the founding fathers stood for! Now excuse me while I go buy enough tinfoil to make hats for the next 50 years.
Fucking ridiculous.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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[Updated on: Sat, 15 January 2011 17:34] Report message to a moderator |
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