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Community matches - Two minor balance suggestions [message #440083] |
Fri, 26 November 2010 07:57 ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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first off, i'm talking about community matches/lobbywars, and only those. i have a couple of balance suggestions that would be entirely voluntary, so i'd like to open the debate among those of us who play comm matches and lobbywars etc. it has nothing to do with TT. i'm not talking about public servers either - we're assuming the top level of teamplay and organisation among players.
i only have two proposals to make. one regards City Flying, the other regards infantry.
1. CITY FLYING
to put it bluntly, GDI needs the first box.
more often than not Nod gets the first box. sometimes GDI does. if GDI gets it, GDI and Nod have about even chances in the game. (GDI needs money quicker, remember).
if Nod gets it, Nod has a huge advantage. why? because a fast light tank is too dominant. it can completely control the field and get all boxes thereafter, easily kill the harv and protect nod's, and hit the barracks with impunity. and if nod gets a fast light tank thanks to the first box, it's a long time before gdi will have a med or orca to take it on.
a fast GDI APC is nowhere near as threatening even if it tries a remote rush (we're talking about comm matches, remember). and a fast orca/med isn't anywhere near as threatening either because nod will nearly have lights by then anyway.
crates are potentially 200 on cityfly. i don't have a problem with that except for the first one. after the first crate, future crates are determined by the team with better infantry skills and co-ordination in the field. but there's nothing you can do to stop the enemy getting the first one if they're lucky enough to have it on their side. and if it's on the Nod side, the game's unbalanced before anyone's fired a shot.
so, i propose amending cityfly (only as a voluntary map for comm matches and stuff, remember) so that GDI always has the first box. if that isn't physically possible, other solutions might be to put the first box in the middle of the field, or make the first box worth 100 instead of potentially 200.
2. INFANTRY AMMO
i think infantry should have infinite ammo, for everything except c4.
again, we're only talking about comm matches here. for the most part, it comes down to tanks and techs. the occasional sniper, but i'll come back to that. PICs/ravs and ramjets can be about as effective damage-wise as tanks at holding the field down, but only damage-wise. even if they're not killed, they can't do all that much before they have to go back. it's not worth it, you're better off getting another tech. if they had infinite ammo, as tanks do, a good PIC/rav or sniper could make a genuine contribution to holding the field on a map like field/under/mesa2/complex.
likewise, is there really any point in a good sniper getting in a good position with a 500? he really can't do much with it before he's out of ammo.
so if the enemy does have a skilled infantry user in a good position (the Under hill, the wallsfly mountain, the mesa bridge, or a 500 sniper anywhere hidden), you really don't have to kill him. if they had infinite ammo, you'd have to do something about it.
it'd also make the cheaper infantry viable too. if a grenadier, rocket soldier, flamethrower or chem trooper hits your building from the tunnel or the volcano balcony etc, you'll actually have to do something about it. they still damage buildings very slowly, so you've got time... they still die very easily, but you'll have to do something about it.
discuss
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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Re: Community matches - Two minor balance suggestions [message #440088 is a reply to message #440083] |
Fri, 26 November 2010 08:30 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Herr Surth
Messages: 1684 Registered: July 2007
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General (1 Star) |
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just put city_fly into the rotation as first/second map. not sure which one is the correct one, but it decides where the box starts.
ps: in my opinion boxes should spawn at a location which is equally far away from both teams, and which is open enough so that infantry skills decide who gets it instead of getting a marginally better spawn (think walls)
[Updated on: Fri, 26 November 2010 08:33] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Community matches - Two minor balance suggestions [message #440091 is a reply to message #440088] |
Fri, 26 November 2010 09:18 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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that's really the case on cityfly anyway, for all boxes after the first. the fact it spawns on the nod side doesn't at all mean nod is more likely to get it, cos gdi ought to have guys over there seeing to the harv. it's only the first box that's the problem.
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Re: Community matches - Two minor balance suggestions [message #440094 is a reply to message #440083] |
Fri, 26 November 2010 10:08 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Starbuzzz
Messages: 1637 Registered: June 2008
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Spoony wrote on Fri, 26 November 2010 08:57 |
2. INFANTRY AMMO
i think infantry should have infinite ammo, for everything except c4.
again, we're only talking about comm matches here. for the most part, it comes down to tanks and techs. the occasional sniper, but i'll come back to that. PICs/ravs and ramjets can be about as effective damage-wise as tanks at holding the field down, but only damage-wise. even if they're not killed, they can't do all that much before they have to go back. it's not worth it, you're better off getting another tech. if they had infinite ammo, as tanks do, a good PIC/rav or sniper could make a genuine contribution to holding the field on a map like field/under/mesa2/complex.
likewise, is there really any point in a good sniper getting in a good position with a 500? he really can't do much with it before he's out of ammo.
so if the enemy does have a skilled infantry user in a good position (the Under hill, the wallsfly mountain, the mesa bridge, or a 500 sniper anywhere hidden), you really don't have to kill him. if they had infinite ammo, you'd have to do something about it.
it'd also make the cheaper infantry viable too. if a grenadier, rocket soldier, flamethrower or chem trooper hits your building from the tunnel or the volcano balcony etc, you'll actually have to do something about it. they still damage buildings very slowly, so you've got time... they still die very easily, but you'll have to do something about it.
discuss
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this is like genuine RTS infantry settings. I sort of thought of the British sniper unit in RA2 when you mentioned a lone 500 sniper on a sniper spot with infinite ammo. It was a nuisance and you either fall back or take the sniper out. I would like to see how it plays out in the FPS...
same deal with the grenadier...the first thought that bleakly crosses my mind when I see grenadiers on the balcony on volcano hitting the Nod ref is that "ok these guys are temporary, they will go back to base after their ammo runs out..."
Now that won't be the case...I would like to see how this works out...quiet interesting suggestion tbh.
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Re: Community matches - Two minor balance suggestions [message #440139 is a reply to message #440136] |
Sat, 27 November 2010 14:03 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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if they send several grenadiers you'll have to deal with it immediately and you currently do anyway.
they'll still get obliterated by a single arty or they can still be reasonably dealt with by a single defending engi/tech.
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Re: Community matches - Two minor balance suggestions [message #440160 is a reply to message #440083] |
Sun, 28 November 2010 09:18 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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think for a moment about the greater variety of strategies this would unlock. i really think this could help infantry truly become what they're supposed to be: worthy support units.
FIELD
everyone who's seriously done community matches knows what the winning formula is for field. couple of arties, max out the limit with lights, everyone else get a tech. for GDI, a few MRLS, max out on meds, everyone else hotwire. the ratio of arties to lights and mrls to meds may vary depending on how the harv fight goes, but that's the gist. getting something other than a hotwire is basically a waste of a player and is asking for trouble.
people think teched arties are overpowered? well, what's the counter to teched arties for GDI? the primary counter is simply more power (rather than another hotwire). a havoc could provide that if only he didn't have to refill once a minute when he fought arties. a really good sniper could take the techs out too without, again, running out of ammo before he knows it. and when he has to refill it's a considerable length of time where gdi is a player down. this certainly isn't worth 1000 and if anything it hinders the team.
if ramjets didn't have to refill, a good sniper could positively help the team not only take the field but hold it. there are a couple of spots on field where a havoc can't be splashed, so a havoc could do some real damage to arties and possibly snipe techs too. and if nod can't overpower GDI and take the field (and if the teams are even, they won't) then nod may have to get a sniper too. it may not just be flying maps where a great sniper on the team can be a genuine asset.
UNDER
consider a PIC and/or a ramjet on the hill. in a comm war this WOULD be a decent thing to do if not for the fact the guy can't do much damage for very long before having to refill. you're protected from tanks on the ridge unless they can take the field, so again, the counter would be a better sniper.
other situations could be thought of. the bridge on Mesa2, for example. again, we'd be left with infantry potentially being what it seems to me they were supposed to be in the first place: worthwhile support units for a team's forces. and we'd also have a role on the team for players whose skills lean more towards infantry than tanks, besides just being a tech all game.
let's try it.
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Re: Community matches - Two minor balance suggestions [message #440332 is a reply to message #440312] |
Mon, 29 November 2010 16:13 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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it has a reasonable chance of killing a tech before he claims the arty, in which case he can kill the arty. given that nod's prime vehicle on mesa (and mesa2) is the arty, this seems like a good option for GDI if they have a good sniper on the team, especially with more ammo available.
and again, the ideal counter for nod will be a good sniper.
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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