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Re: Liquid trying to understand British logic - cleared [message #438745 is a reply to message #438743] Mon, 01 November 2010 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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did the amount you get for vehicle alignment make that much of a difference? it seems like absolute crap after playing with the original points for so long

in many cases the amount lost by the jump-out-of-your-tank-at-the-last-second exploit was actually more than the amount subtracted by the pointsfix.

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i'd have absolutely no beef with the pointmod if players had an easier time adapting to it but realistically they're not patient enough to earn what they need
that's why lots of players play in st0rm servers with 1000 starting credits and extra + faster harv income...and their overall gameplay is fairly bad in comparison Dont Get It

the extra credits is a more sensible way of solving the problem some players have. if you want to be able to afford whatever you want no matter how badly you're being thrashed, you should just say so. up the credits instead of using this fucking dumb mod where you have to shoot a light tank with an auto rifle when you could be doing something important instead.

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and one problem for that vehicle alignment fix is it causes lag in games anywhere near a large size (in clanwars it's fine but in servers even 10vs10 or higher it becomes a huge lag issue)

? that surprises me

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why? i don't have magic powers, i don't have access to some source of wisdom that's denied everyone else. if your statement boils down to "you're the only one with the sufficient dedication" then it doesn't belong in an argument against me, does it?

not really an argument that makes logical sense, no

oh, it makes sense, it just ought to be pointed towards everyone except me instead of me

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uh no, letting him play was what probably would've caused that. like i said, the global admins thought that me and blkst0rm were the only decent people in a community that was - aside from we two - a complete cesspool and not at all worth CLAN WARS's resources to host. the exception were the two admins who ran things as fairly as we did no matter how retarded the general community was being at the time.

alright, so it could have
it was possible, but not certain
i wouldn't call it a cesspool but it seems odd that no one else felt he should be banned or didn't speak up about it

other than the higher-up admins at clanwars, i can only think of two people besides myself and blkst0rm who agreed with the ban, both of whom said so on MSN rather than the forum.

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what if a poll was held and smoking beat not smoking? Surprised

held by who? the bowling alley owner who specifically chose to let the community have a vote? or just some guy from the community who got the weird idea that he's entitled to one?

if it's the latter then this is what makes it such a joke that people call it "democracy". they're actually trying to take someone's privately owned property and turn its control over to "the people". call it what it is, it's communism.

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i would have thought that you have your hands full enough with things i have said without needing to deal with things i didn't say.

i pick up on other things whether you intended them or not
some things you probably didn't even think of or mean at all, which is why i asked to be sure

you seem to be wrong about these things you "pick up on" quite a lot, though

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and yet you can't point to a clanwars player who actually did DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, can you? like i said, you're focusing too much on their excuses and ignoring the fact that nobody can be found who put in the slightest effort.

this is true - none of them tried to make their own league
there may be more reasons for that than simply "they didn't care" but it doesn't matter since your point is "it never happened"

yes, that is the most important part of the equation... by far.

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i just had the gut feeling that simpee was telling the truth for a change, and his explanation certainly fit the known facts.

pfft, your gut or your mind thinking simpee's finally telling the truth about something because it betters your argument
your gut is full of Lies, and straw

you ever heard of Occam's Razor?

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yes, for quite a significant period of time actually. CLAN WARS set up the league a few months after the game's release (in large part due to the absolute shittiness of Westwood's official clan ladder). that would have been around summer 2002. i didn't become an admin until summer 2005.

cool renehistory
so how did they run things before you came along?

if you mean did they decide policy by poll threads, no they didn't

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it's hard to square these comments with getting called the "worst admin in history" whenever i make a decision that someone disapproves of

you couldn't have been that bad because no one got up and made their own Spoony-free clanwars league

i can see we're never going to agree on why that was, are we?

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if it is, we can refer to my earlier statement on the subject. either they couldn't marshal their thoughts to justify their views in the debate thread that the admin specifically put there for their benefit, or they didn't dare join the debate for fear of being proved wrong. in neither case am i going to do what they want.

i dare say that you are Mean

it's better than just making your admin decision and then locking the thread and ignoring what anyone says about it, and that's better than not hosting a league at all

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i pointed out the colossal flaw in simpee's argument again and again and again. neither of you acknowledged it. simpee was trying to prove two things at the same time - firstly that i sucked at the game, secondly that mesa was unfair. and his way to prove this was to play me on mesa. stop and think for a second. how can you prove one player is great and the other player sucks by arranging a match on a horribly unfair map? conversely, how can you prove mesa is unfair by pitting a great player against a terrible player?

oh yeah, he wanted to do it on Mesa, not Mesa2
see, you're helping

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there were other reasons i posted at the time, you both ignored them too - such as the fact simpee had already been proven wrong in these pointsfix debates many times already and had shown a pathetic reluctance to admitting it - therefore it wouldn't change a damn thing if he was proven wrong about this too (yet again, the game is rigged).

fair enough

why didn't any of this get through to you at the time? i've certainly said all of this before.

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yes, especially those people who had a track record of profiting from unfairness.

that's not really relevant though, it seems like a way for you to justify their differing opinions not meaning anything

not relevant?

here comes a change that makes the game fairer, and everyone who liked to profit from unfairness is angry at the change.

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what if only the respectable, clean track record clanwars players had supported using the original points and the rapist genocide club had wanted the original points?

i assume you mean what if the clean track record players wanted the bug and the cheaters wanted the pointsfix?

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no, i was inferring what i actually said, which was "we do not decide policy by polls, we never did, nobody said this poll was important, and anyway the anti-pointsfix crowd has already tried rigging these things in the past"

alright
more reasons why you don't use polls instead of a reason why this one came out a certain way, which is what i thought you were on about

see how far you get by reading what i say instead of trying to figure out what i might be thinking but not saying? i've pissed an enormous number of people off by never shying away from saying what i mean...

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firstly, a lot of your statements have been along the lines of "you should do what the majority wants". as i've said before, this would mean that one of the worst cheaters in history gets away with it, whereas the fairest and most honest player around is fucked. have fun in a league like that.
secondly, i'm not talking about the fact they didn't like me, i'm talking about the fact they supported me being banned purely because of personal dislike, with not even so much as a thought as to what justification there might be for it.

this means they would not have made good clanwars admins, based on your previous teachings

well observed

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don't say "stuck around" as if there's anything praiseworthy there... they carried on accepting my charity?

is that not what you intended for people to do when you hosted a league for them? you act as if they're in the wrong for playing there

no, i didn't say that, i said there isn't anything praiseworthy in it.

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excuse me, but if you're capable of saying "here's what i think the rule on this matter should be" you're capable of being an admin and making that rule. and if the anti-pointsfix crowd was as enormous as you've decided that it is (though on what evidence i'm not quite sure) then you'd think that they could easily club together to outdo someone who knows as little about coding as i do.

i felt that the way renegade was scored should be what the players wanted, but i didn't think that all rules or decisions should be decided by the players

how do you work that out?

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are you kidding? it'd be more fun if i DIDN'T put myself through those debates. it's depressing how stupid most of the other participants were, depressing having to repeat myself again and again because they just weren't reading what the person they're arguing with was saying, depressing watching so many people lie through their teeth to try to get what they wanted, etc etc etc

the whole intellectual sparring thing was lost you say? bah, i say

sometimes it's fun against a worthy opponent. it's usually depressing when it's against someone who makes a bucket of pigshit look clever

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if something that improved the level of fairness in the league made people who'd already proven their preference for unfairness leave, this would probably have made me realise even sooner what a waste of effort the community was. that's a result, i suppose.

i don't think it was a waste of effort, and i'm sure the people who played there wouldn't say that
if they did they would be lying

well, if they think it's worth their effort, it reinforces my point that one of them ought to have put some in.

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was it just a way to assure that you were correct on the issue then? so they couldn't come back later and say that?

i can see you're not going to easily digest the idea that open debate on a particular question is a good thing for its own sake.

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