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Re: BHS Ladder [message #438587 is a reply to message #438579] Fri, 29 October 2010 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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liquidv2 wrote on Fri, 29 October 2010 20:25

i was under the assumption that there was a poll about using the pointmod in clanwars and that the vast majority said No, don't use it

a poll started by a player, without any admin endorsement. decisions at clanwars have never been determined by polls, and anonymous ones are obviously open to rigging... which the anti-pointsfix crowd had already been caught doing.

but even if every single player in the league besides me was adamantly anti-pointsfix, i'd still be right and you'd still be wrong here

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you act as if this alliance of cheaters, liars, and rapists is that majority
clanwars at the time must have consisted of 15 or less players

hooray, it's dawning on you how small the community was

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the only way in their eyes to have clanwars is the spoony way

then there's something seriously wrong with said eyes, since i certainly told them enough times that there was absolutely nothing stopping any of them hosting their own league.

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but when the spoony way went against what they wanted they tried to get it changed

yes, like they did when blkst0rm and i banned soul for pointpushing with photoshopped screenshots. they were so angry at that that they - again - tried to sabotage the league (by trying to get people banned on purpose). this is the kind of people we're talking about here, the "playerbase" (cheaters) you want me to "listen to" (obey)

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they might not show you respect but they respect what you've done enough to want to use it themselves

seriously, stop trying to euphemise... you aren't any good at it

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it seems to me like you're blowing things they did out of proportion
we have different views on things, which is why i wanted you to summarize it for me so i could figure out what you mean
you won't so i can't be sure either way

you seemed very sure at the time. i kept pointing out that the entirety of the people you wanted me to "listen to" were cheaters, pointpushers etc who had a long habit of not "listening" to the, y'know, rules and stuff. i kept pointing out that the "majority" of clanwars have a demonstrable track record of extraordinary stupidity. again, no reaction. i said the last time it was spoony vs the entire clanwars community on an issue, the clanwars community was so catastrophically wrong that if they'd been listened to, it probably would've resulted in the entire shutdown of the league. EVEN THAT couldn't provoke the slightest reaction from you. no, the only thing on your mind was "listen to the playerbase" (obey the cheaters)

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you're the admin, you can nullify them

sure, cheating and be punished if it's caught... what if it isn't caught?

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i'm saying you can shut it down until the servers are changed back

would you think me less of a "douche" if i did?

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again, euphemism. they're cheaters and compulsive liars.

you're cheaters and compulsive liars.

don't be stupid. i know you're probably a bit embarrassed at who you were so enthusiastically supporting, but don't be stupid.

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and yet every single person who wanted a pointbugged ladder is AUTOMATICALLY much more "douchey" than i could ever be, because they can't be bothered hosting.

how many players from cw.cc actually know how to run a ladder? or make one? or think they could do a better job than you at it? troop doesn't count, he's mentally retarded

there's no need to make excuses for these people. you can read their own excuses. you may have noticed me directly asking people like orca and simpee why they don't host a pointbugged ladder since they're the ones who think there should be one. simpee said he couldn't be bothered (the honesty came as quite a surprise), orca said he would not lower himself to putting any money or time into running anything for renegade.

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you cite the Soul example here, but how would letting a pointpusher play shut the league down?

the entire community was firmly on the side of the guy who pointpushed with photoshopped screenshots and lied to everyone for about a week to try to get away with it (including his own clan, probably the worst thing you can do in the clan world). everyone was hailing him as a hero and flaming the shit out of me for banning him. thanks to how unbelievably low the community had sunk, there was an imminent danger of the renegade league being shut down altogether by the site owners purely because of the embarrassment the renegade portion of the site was causing. i can't fault CLAN WARS for looking at the clanwars renegade forums at the time and wondering why he was spending so much as a cent on such an unbelievably fucked up community.

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clanwars.cc survived for a long time using the original points

though several rules had to be made to deal with the problems the bug caused...

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again, i kept pointing this out to you at the time, and you seemed oddly unmoved by it.

because it sounds like shenanigans and bologna

sad to hear you were completely taken in by the lies and manipulations of a group of cheaters, but you didn't believe spoony.

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if it would make them happy how about one of them pull their fingers out and host one themselves instead of expecting me to accommdate their fucking ridiculous point bugs that they can't even logically explain?

i covered this

completely unsuccessfully.

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i wasn't trying to lie about it
what i was trying to say all along is you did not side with the majority of your players

that doesn't have quite the same kick, though, does it? doesn't actually sound as if i've done anything wrong if you put it that way, does it? so that's no good.

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after watching you slap karmai and simpee and the others around in that topic perhaps none of the others wanted to voice their opinions

well, at clanwars it matters whether you actually have a fucking clue what you're talking about, not whether you can find four people who agree with you. that's how rules are decided, and i remind you that not a single person on the anti-pointsfix side had a fucking clue what they were talking about.

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muffinjay said he thought renegade balances out with the original points and you tore him up too like he had insulted a family member

no, i said that what he said was stupid, because it was. he said it made sense for ramjets to get bucketloads of points off tanks because they did do damage after all, albeit a very very small amount of damage.

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why, if in your eyes the majority wanted the pointmod on, did they vote No in that poll?

you're assuming that all the No votes were different people, are you? that's generous of you, given the fact the anti-pointsfix crowd had already established the practice of rigging polls and lying about the results.

the sad part is i thought i'd always made it clear that those polls are worthless to me in deciding league policy. again, if it had been 99% no and 1% yes with me being the 1%, it wouldn't have changed the fact that nobody in the 99% had a fucking clue what they were talking about and were caught lying innumerable times, and it wouldn't change the fact that any of those 99% could set up a pointbugged ladder for themselves if any of them could actually give a shit about the community.

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don't say "listened to" when you mean "obeyed". and don't say "playerbase" when you mean "a small number of cheaters"

i was siding with the majority; this band of rapists and murderers and cheaters and liars just so happened to be a part of that majority

again, do yourself a favour of don't lie, they were the entirety of the opposition. it doesn't matter how many No votes there were, nobody said it did.

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i also agreed with the legit and fair players that voted No to using the pointmod in clanwars that you've taken out of the equation

wow, what's with the lying? i went to extraordinary lengths to give everyone the chance to join the "equation", but the equation is a debate, not a vote. you don't change my mind on a rule by saying here are five people who agree with me, you change my mind on a rule by saying here's why the rule is wrong and why this alternative would be right. i gave everyone ample opportunity to do that, they tried, they catastrophically failed. and yet despite their abject failure to convince me that they ought to have a pointbugged ladder, nothing ever stopped them setting their own one up. but no, apparently i've got to do it for him. jesus, listen to what an idiot you're being

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i find it hard to believe that all of cw.cc cheats and lies

not all, probably not even a majority, but it's a higher proportion than i'd like

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they were the only people publicly arguing against it in the debate thread that existed for that specific purpose.

so? they weren't the only ones that didn't want to play with the pointmod in clanwars[/quote]
i suppose you're still assuming this vote of yours wasn't rigged like the previous ones were

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the majority did not want it - like i said i thought it was a douchey move on your part to go against what your playerbase wanted

and as i've tried to explain to you so many many times, there's no avoiding the conclusion that anyone who wants a pointbugged ladder but isn't hosting one (that includes you and doesn't include me) is far more douchey than you assert me to be. that automatically beats your entire argument.

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if that was the majority of the league i would've closed it a very long time ago.

so the majority wanted to use the pointmod and the only people that did not were simpee and his gang of bandits and terrorists

i've never thought my case here was sufficiently weak that i needed to say i had "majority" on my side, never mind the "majority" of a community as generally dipshitted as clanwars.cc. if you're going to construct a strawman you could at least come up with something i might actually waste my time saying.

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would that be any kind of criticism if that were true? it's better than hosting it to satisfy the cheaters and pointpushers and compulsive liars you were so robustly defending

i was defending the fact that the majority of your league wanted something and you sided over them on it

firstly, again, it was never established that it was the majority at all. secondly, i kept trying to explain how thick the majority can be. thirdly, if you think my feelings will be hurt by you saying i'm the only person in the room who thinks one thing when everyone else thinks the opposite, you haven't been paying much attention to any of my renedebates.

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and in the dozens and dozens of posts and PMs you put forth on the subject, the one and only opinion you could bring yourself to express was the "you should listen to your playerbase" (or, as we've established, "you should obey these cheaters")

the cheaters, along with the majority of clanwars.cc that voted No to using the pointmod

again, don't use the word "vote" as if there was an election going on or something. there was a debate thread right there for opposition to the pointsfix - if people were too stupid or too cowardly to muster up anything there, don't act like the fault is mine. nobody ever said those anonymous votes are worth a damn at clanwars.cc, and that would be the case even if the anti-pointsfix crowd hadn't already rigging them in the past.

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the thinking is that there can't be clanwars without spoony

that's odd, i've seen plenty of people on the anti-pointsfix crowd - clearshot, for example - say clanwars would be a lot better without spoony.

they don't put it to the test, though.

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spoony does it right; he may be a douche but he does a good job
from the people i've spoken to over the years that's what i got from it

no one wants to go completely against you and try to do a better job than you

no, no one can be bothered, and the rare few who do help out as renadmins get treated almost as badly as i do. call it what it is.

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all they wanted was you to not change the way the game played out after everyone in clanwars knew and fully understood how it worked

all i wanted was for the league to run smoothly with the players respecting the rules and the admins, so i guess we don't often get what we want. the difference between the two is if any of the anti-pointsfix crowd could give enough of a shit about the community to set up their own ladder, their problem would be solved.

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but it's a bit ironic that you're thinking of granting them the presumption of innocence, given that you've spent several years under a delusion that they intentionally created with all the lies and rigged polls they set up.

you're right, the polls brainwashed me
what was i thinking?!

yes i am right, yes the polls did brainwash you

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what would the jelly staff do if it turned out you had been cheating for years up to and including the present day?

[color=skyblue]probably say Wow, liquid was cheating for years? how were we supposed to know AHAHAHA
they'd remove me and carry on with business
i don't understand why you threw that idea out there
[/quote]
it would be quite serious if it was true, wouldn't it? therefore it's serious when someone seriously asserts it's true, and therefore we shouldn't deal lightly with someone who - in all seriousness - lies through his teeth to make the assertion, with the express purpose of doing what damage he could to (in this hypothetical) the jelly community.

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as to the marching on EA, the only person who did that was roni, but it turned out he didn't think an individual community should be able to decide for itself whether to use the pointsfix or not either.

i think he cleared that up when you accused him of that
he wanted there to be a choice; that's why i signed his ren-e-petition

uh no, he didn't want there to be a choice. there was nothing in the petition about having a choice. he openly opposed my right to use the pointsfix in my own league.

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that alone would have been enough; it would have been like me hacking into the jelly box to install the pointsfix. what would you have done had i done so?

that's not the same thing
it would be like you lying to jelly to get him to put the pointmod on the servers

if you insist, so long as i had a history of cheating, pointpushing and trying to sabotage the jelly servers.

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do you think that was also the case in all the other times they were caught lying about stuff?

i think that you're the bad guy here and used simpee and clearsh0t as your scapegoats
[/quote]
i thought i told you to try not to stupid

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