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Re: BHS Ladder [message #438394 is a reply to message #438393] Wed, 27 October 2010 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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reborn wrote on Wed, 27 October 2010 09:24

I'd be interested in knowing how you come to your conclusions. Whether it's a rough estimate based on a feeling for the game environment, or analysis of data.

it's my considered opinions on which game alterations have a negative (or in some cases positive) effect on competitive and fair gameplay.

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 27 October 2010 09:24


you said a while ago, i believe, something like "i don't wanna be the guy who decides those numbers". cheer up, then



Yes, I wouldn't like to be the person that decides these percentages, simply because I do not believe it's possible to come up with a fait and balanced system.

I honestly don't feel like there's anyone qualified enough to make that call.

well, westwood made two ladders for renegade - would you consider westwood qualified? because, false modesty aside, i promise you i know a bucketload more about how to run a good ladder than westwood did.

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 27 October 2010 09:24


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How about a specific game mode like CTF? How about a custom game mode that only runs on One server?

nope, AOW/CCM only (includes marathon)


Will the other game modes have seperate ladders, then? If not, then you're dropping support for a large number of players and servers, whereas the system I mentioned would not be so exclusive and would support all servers and all players.

communities that run other game styles than AOW/CCM are perfectly free to make their own ladders - that's the case now and won't be any less so once the TT ladder is sorted out.

if TT did make a separate ladder for, say, capture the flag (and that's a hypothetical) i certainly wouldn't be doing anything with that personally.

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I do not believe that alienating sevrers or players in such a small playerbase is a good idea.

it certainly is a shame that the game's player base is shrinking, but it doesn't seem like an argument against the goal of making the ladder worth a damn (for a change).
rejecting a particular server's data on the basis that they run - say, co-op - doesn't actually take anything away from that server, does it? nothing's changed for them at all. they've still got their server to run however they like it, they can still set up their own ladder for it.

Spoony wrote on Wed, 27 October 2010 09:24


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How about a server that runs the points fix, has 0 starting creds etc... But has modified the maps themselves?

define modified the maps?


Modified maps such as placing GameObjects on maps that would otherwise not exist. Perhaps a ceiling camera, a turret, a blocker, a shed, whatever happens to take the mood...
good question, thank you. i'll ponder that.

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 27 October 2010 09:24


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What about servers that have modified the points system itself?

simple, another % penalty.


It's not really "simple" though... How do you determine what percent should be removed if the points system is modified so extensively?

by... thinking about it?

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That's pretty commited, I commend you. However, even if you was in all servers that report into the ladder server 24 hours a day, to be sure nothing un-toward is happening, you would need the servers owners 100% cooperation, as there are elements other than gameplay that can manipulate the ladder points.

easy, servers that want to be part of the ladder can just declare their settings, and notify us of any changes. if they're dishonest about any of it we can dock the ladder points or whatever. trust me, i've dealt with much peskier ladder abuse than this.

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You sound pretty confident, and to be honest, if I was going to choose anyone to do this job, you would be in the top of a very short list. I just do not think it's possible to accomplish what you want to do. At least not in a fair way.

then you can't be disappointed by the results, i suppose.

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I honestly don't want to be saying this either. I would love a fair ladder for all players and all servers in One big list.
It's a public service that you're trying to accomplish and I must sound like a right dousche bag, but this is not my intent.

no problem.

i wish my ideas had already been implemented by now

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I honestly feel that a ladder that creates seperate pages for all servers is the best fit solution, albeit not the most desired solution.

not a global ladder at all, then?

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