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| Re: RenLadder updates [message #437569 is a reply to message #435162] |
Fri, 08 October 2010 02:13   |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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I don't know... I can't seem to find a simple mathematical solution to the bad data... it's totally random. Doesn't seem to affect all the players, either. I don't want to jump to banning results from the servers that are sending it, but I might have to. :\
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: RenLadder updates [message #437570 is a reply to message #437569] |
Fri, 08 October 2010 02:51 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9732
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| Crimson wrote on Fri, 08 October 2010 11:13 |
I don't know... I can't seem to find a simple mathematical solution to the bad data... it's totally random. Doesn't seem to affect all the players, either. I don't want to jump to banning results from the servers that are sending it, but I might have to. :\
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There must be a maximum amount of ladder points one can win in one game that's "normal". Let's say 500. All above that should trigger a flag, if a server gets flagged multiple times, you can ban them from the ladder and notify in the server owners forum. Then the server owner can still appeal the ban if he can prove the results were valid.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: RenLadder updates [message #437571 is a reply to message #435162] |
Fri, 08 October 2010 02:57 |
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reborn
Messages: 3231
Registered: September 2004
Location: uk - london
Karma: 0
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I was thinking that there is no way to have a fair global ladder, not when servers can easily meddle with the data they send to the ladder serv.
Even if they didn't start altering the data itself deliberately, even a server with crates is different from one without.
When you get down to it, even starting credits make a difference... Unless you enforce clan war settings for each server, it isn't going to be fair.
However, I believe there is another solution. One that seems fair to me, and still remains a global solution and a pulic service offered by BHS...
Have the ladder website create a page for each server that reports to it. Players stats would only increase in the server they are playing in, rather than a global ladder.
It's still a global solution, but each server has it's own rankings.
Each player playing in that server has a fair and even level playing field to eachother, as where they do not compared to a player going around in a coop server.
But by making indivdual rank pages for each server in one central place you do not have to disregard data from any server at all.
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| Re: RenLadder updates [message #437573 is a reply to message #435162] |
Fri, 08 October 2010 05:01 |
i0ncl0ud9
Messages: 74
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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It seems that the only times it has happened so far is on the atomix server and when halo2pac did it, however he did it.
Personally, I see it fair to give the servers a warning that are doing it, and if they then keep doing it ban them from the ladder.
Whatever settings they have that are causing it to happen can be changed, and if they would rather have those settings than be a part of the ladder, that is there choice.
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| Re: RenLadder updates [message #437578 is a reply to message #437573] |
Fri, 08 October 2010 13:31 |
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halo2pac
Messages: 659
Registered: December 2006
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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<cut>
Not that hard, thats why a global ladder is a bad thing, unless TT can make sure that scripts cannot modify the ladder.
btw Reborn's idea is sexy.
Mod edit: what the hell are u thinking?
Rene-Buddy | Renegade X
Join the fight against Obsessive-Compulsive Posting Disorder. Cancel is ur friend.
*Renegade X Dev Team Member*
[Updated on: Fri, 08 October 2010 14:22] by Moderator Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenLadder updates [message #437630 is a reply to message #435162] |
Sun, 10 October 2010 00:33 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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It's not really a good idea. It destroys the whole spirit of the ladder.
Spoony and I had discussed at one point an idea I had to "weight" the server settings. Such as, start credits greater than 0 gives you a percentage penalty for each credit you start with. And other server settings would have other penalties. The baseline being vanilla Renegade with 0 start credits, no donations ever, and no modifications that change the game such as vehicle shells, weapon drop, etc. Servers that get 100% weight must also use the correct points system (fixed by BI) and a penalty would be given for using the original broken system.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: RenLadder updates [message #437633 is a reply to message #437630] |
Sun, 10 October 2010 03:09 |
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reborn
Messages: 3231
Registered: September 2004
Location: uk - london
Karma: 0
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| Crimson wrote on Sun, 10 October 2010 03:33 |
It's not really a good idea. It destroys the whole spirit of the ladder.
Spoony and I had discussed at one point an idea I had to "weight" the server settings. Such as, start credits greater than 0 gives you a percentage penalty for each credit you start with. And other server settings would have other penalties. The baseline being vanilla Renegade with 0 start credits, no donations ever, and no modifications that change the game such as vehicle shells, weapon drop, etc. Servers that get 100% weight must also use the correct points system (fixed by BI) and a penalty would be given for using the original broken system.
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I would not like to be the person who had to come up with those percentages, it would be incredibly hard to fairly judge that.
What percenatge would you take off for servers that had !buy commands, or a modified map file, or extra spawners, or vet systems or any number of modifications that are run?
I agree that it's not what you had in mind, but it's the only fair solution that I can think of. You really cannot with full confidence say that you can create a fair ladder that all servers send their data to and group all players together in One list.
I do not take pleasure in saying it either, I would like to see a ladder that could have all players from all servers. I also do not like to undermine other peoples efforts either, I know it's incredibly frustrating when you're trying to make something for others, and all you are faced with is assholes with negative attitudes.
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| Re: RenLadder updates [message #437658 is a reply to message #437630] |
Sun, 10 October 2010 16:14 |
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trooprm02
Messages: 3266
Registered: August 2005
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Crimson wrote on Sun, 10 October 2010 02:33 |
It's not really a good idea. It destroys the whole spirit of the ladder.
Spoony and I had discussed at one point an idea I had to "weight" the server settings. Such as, start credits greater than 0 gives you a percentage penalty for each credit you start with. And other server settings would have other penalties. The baseline being vanilla Renegade with 0 start credits, no donations ever, and no modifications that change the game such as vehicle shells, weapon drop, etc. Servers that get 100% weight must also use the correct points system (fixed by BI) and a penalty would be given for using the original broken system.
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This. But why did you not want to block servers completely sending bad data?
@reborn, I disagree. Ladders for individual servers have been going on for many years, and apart from really jelly, have meant nothing. As long as offending servers are blocked from sending any data, a global ladder is a golden idea.
@argentina guy, try icefinch.net now (its been recently updated)
My: Videos/Website/Forums
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| Re: RenLadder updates [message #437662 is a reply to message #435162] |
Sun, 10 October 2010 21:06 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
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I don't mind blocking the servers that are sending bad data. I was just hoping I could find a simple solution to figure out the right data to just correct it on our end. (Such as, ladder points sent are exactly double, then I just half it)
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: RenLadder updates [message #437781 is a reply to message #435162] |
Mon, 11 October 2010 15:18 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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If the bug can be located I may be able to work around it. You know, something like "ladder points = actual ladder + something else"...
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: RenLadder updates [message #437789 is a reply to message #435162] |
Mon, 11 October 2010 19:54 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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I didn't want to say anything until I was sure, but I have resolved the problem where the server wasn't recording some games. I restarted the ladder server on October 7th and it hasn't lost a game since.
There may be other things outside of the Ladder Server causing data loss but the one I was able to identify has been fixed, it seems.
I'm the bawss.
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