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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437494 is a reply to message #437445] Tue, 05 October 2010 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ExEric3 is currently offline  ExEric3
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i0ncl0ud9 wrote on Mon, 04 October 2010 16:22

The guy in first on the ladder right now is gettin like 5000 points per game in 45 min servers from a0000002W host name, whichever server that is.


Dunno how that works, but it seems to also report a false game in addition to whatever game is played on that server.

I tried playing a game on that server and The guy in first place got like 3000 ladder, then everyone else got like 100.

Then a few minutes later, I noticed it reported another game from that server that I hadn't even been in and it gave me 30 kills, 0 deaths, and -1544 ladder points... lol

Here are a few samples...

http://renladder.blackhand-studios.net/player.php?name=Unnecessar
http://renladder.blackhand-studios.net/player.php?name=DHMO
http://renladder.blackhand-studios.net/player.php?name=halo2pac


Its caused by Renegade Resurrection on server side.
Re: RenLadder updates [message #437505 is a reply to message #435162] Tue, 05 October 2010 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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Intentional or a bug?

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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437507 is a reply to message #435162] Tue, 05 October 2010 21:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xpert is currently offline  Xpert
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It's a bug I guess if a server is using RR server side. I wouldn't know what causes it because I definitely didn't intentionally do that. lol.

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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437565 is a reply to message #437507] Thu, 07 October 2010 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i0ncl0ud9 is currently offline  i0ncl0ud9
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Crimson,

is there anything you can do to fix this problem?
Re: RenLadder updates [message #437569 is a reply to message #435162] Fri, 08 October 2010 02:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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I don't know... I can't seem to find a simple mathematical solution to the bad data... it's totally random. Doesn't seem to affect all the players, either. I don't want to jump to banning results from the servers that are sending it, but I might have to. :\

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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437570 is a reply to message #437569] Fri, 08 October 2010 02:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goztow is currently offline  Goztow
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Crimson wrote on Fri, 08 October 2010 11:13

I don't know... I can't seem to find a simple mathematical solution to the bad data... it's totally random. Doesn't seem to affect all the players, either. I don't want to jump to banning results from the servers that are sending it, but I might have to. :\

There must be a maximum amount of ladder points one can win in one game that's "normal". Let's say 500. All above that should trigger a flag, if a server gets flagged multiple times, you can ban them from the ladder and notify in the server owners forum. Then the server owner can still appeal the ban if he can prove the results were valid.


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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437571 is a reply to message #435162] Fri, 08 October 2010 02:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reborn is currently offline  reborn
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I was thinking that there is no way to have a fair global ladder, not when servers can easily meddle with the data they send to the ladder serv.
Even if they didn't start altering the data itself deliberately, even a server with crates is different from one without.
When you get down to it, even starting credits make a difference... Unless you enforce clan war settings for each server, it isn't going to be fair.

However, I believe there is another solution. One that seems fair to me, and still remains a global solution and a pulic service offered by BHS...

Have the ladder website create a page for each server that reports to it. Players stats would only increase in the server they are playing in, rather than a global ladder.

It's still a global solution, but each server has it's own rankings.
Each player playing in that server has a fair and even level playing field to eachother, as where they do not compared to a player going around in a coop server.
But by making indivdual rank pages for each server in one central place you do not have to disregard data from any server at all.



Re: RenLadder updates [message #437573 is a reply to message #435162] Fri, 08 October 2010 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i0ncl0ud9 is currently offline  i0ncl0ud9
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It seems that the only times it has happened so far is on the atomix server and when halo2pac did it, however he did it.

Personally, I see it fair to give the servers a warning that are doing it, and if they then keep doing it ban them from the ladder.

Whatever settings they have that are causing it to happen can be changed, and if they would rather have those settings than be a part of the ladder, that is there choice.
Re: RenLadder updates [message #437578 is a reply to message #437573] Fri, 08 October 2010 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
halo2pac is currently offline  halo2pac
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<cut>
Not that hard, thats why a global ladder is a bad thing, unless TT can make sure that scripts cannot modify the ladder.

btw Reborn's idea is sexy.

Mod edit: what the hell are u thinking?


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[Updated on: Fri, 08 October 2010 14:22] by Moderator

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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437586 is a reply to message #435162] Fri, 08 October 2010 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
QoQPCP is currently offline  QoQPCP
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Time Server Map Ladder Points Score Kills Deaths K/D
09.10.2010 00:42:14 a0000000T C&C_Field.mix 24419 0 172 0 172

24k ladder.... nice...

[Updated on: Fri, 08 October 2010 19:06]

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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437589 is a reply to message #437578] Fri, 08 October 2010 20:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
halo2pac is currently offline  halo2pac
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halo2pac wrote on Fri, 08 October 2010 15:31

<cut>

Mod edit: what the hell are u thinking?


I was thinking everybody knew that function who knows how to even open scripts. It's common knowlege. I'm actually supprised that got edited. Actually I giggled a little too that if that function is so sensorable that you even included it in scripts In the first place.

But I do appologise for pointing that out blatantly.


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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437596 is a reply to message #435162] Sat, 09 October 2010 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CarrierII is currently offline  CarrierII
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Halo, generally, those who can open and modify scripts aren't out to trash the game... (I was not the mod who edited your post)

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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437613 is a reply to message #437596] Sat, 09 October 2010 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HaTe is currently offline  HaTe
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Illegal characters such as "'" in servers seems to affect it too. Jut an observation....not sure if it's every time though.

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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437625 is a reply to message #437596] Sat, 09 October 2010 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
halo2pac is currently offline  halo2pac
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CarrierII wrote on Sat, 09 October 2010 05:42

Halo, generally, those who can open and modify scripts aren't out to trash the game... (I was not the mod who edited your post)


I'm not trying to trash it either. I'm trying to point out how it's a dumb ideas to have a ladder that's so easy to modify. Per server ranks reported to a single location like reborn said is a great idea.


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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437630 is a reply to message #435162] Sun, 10 October 2010 00:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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It's not really a good idea. It destroys the whole spirit of the ladder.

Spoony and I had discussed at one point an idea I had to "weight" the server settings. Such as, start credits greater than 0 gives you a percentage penalty for each credit you start with. And other server settings would have other penalties. The baseline being vanilla Renegade with 0 start credits, no donations ever, and no modifications that change the game such as vehicle shells, weapon drop, etc. Servers that get 100% weight must also use the correct points system (fixed by BI) and a penalty would be given for using the original broken system.


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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437632 is a reply to message #435162] Sun, 10 October 2010 02:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NACHO-ARG is currently offline  NACHO-ARG
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hey guy i hav seen people playing whit r resurrection 1.1.6 please post some link to download, i can`t find rr 1.1.6 in icefinch.net and wen i try to update the resurrection 1.1.4 wich i have instaled it crases (sorry my english)
Re: RenLadder updates [message #437633 is a reply to message #437630] Sun, 10 October 2010 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reborn is currently offline  reborn
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Crimson wrote on Sun, 10 October 2010 03:33

It's not really a good idea. It destroys the whole spirit of the ladder.

Spoony and I had discussed at one point an idea I had to "weight" the server settings. Such as, start credits greater than 0 gives you a percentage penalty for each credit you start with. And other server settings would have other penalties. The baseline being vanilla Renegade with 0 start credits, no donations ever, and no modifications that change the game such as vehicle shells, weapon drop, etc. Servers that get 100% weight must also use the correct points system (fixed by BI) and a penalty would be given for using the original broken system.


I would not like to be the person who had to come up with those percentages, it would be incredibly hard to fairly judge that.

What percenatge would you take off for servers that had !buy commands, or a modified map file, or extra spawners, or vet systems or any number of modifications that are run?

I agree that it's not what you had in mind, but it's the only fair solution that I can think of. You really cannot with full confidence say that you can create a fair ladder that all servers send their data to and group all players together in One list.

I do not take pleasure in saying it either, I would like to see a ladder that could have all players from all servers. I also do not like to undermine other peoples efforts either, I know it's incredibly frustrating when you're trying to make something for others, and all you are faced with is assholes with negative attitudes.



Re: RenLadder updates [message #437658 is a reply to message #437630] Sun, 10 October 2010 16:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trooprm02 is currently offline  trooprm02
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Crimson wrote on Sun, 10 October 2010 02:33

It's not really a good idea. It destroys the whole spirit of the ladder.

Spoony and I had discussed at one point an idea I had to "weight" the server settings. Such as, start credits greater than 0 gives you a percentage penalty for each credit you start with. And other server settings would have other penalties. The baseline being vanilla Renegade with 0 start credits, no donations ever, and no modifications that change the game such as vehicle shells, weapon drop, etc. Servers that get 100% weight must also use the correct points system (fixed by BI) and a penalty would be given for using the original broken system.


This. But why did you not want to block servers completely sending bad data?

@reborn, I disagree. Ladders for individual servers have been going on for many years, and apart from really jelly, have meant nothing. As long as offending servers are blocked from sending any data, a global ladder is a golden idea.

@argentina guy, try icefinch.net now (its been recently updated)


Re: RenLadder updates [message #437662 is a reply to message #435162] Sun, 10 October 2010 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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I don't mind blocking the servers that are sending bad data. I was just hoping I could find a simple solution to figure out the right data to just correct it on our end. (Such as, ladder points sent are exactly double, then I just half it)

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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437743 is a reply to message #437662] Mon, 11 October 2010 11:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trooprm02 is currently offline  trooprm02
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Well, if you are saying it looks pretty random after looking at the data its sending, Xpert (who has played around with RR quite a bit) says he doesn't think it intentional (aka its a bug), and we both know Yrr won't be looking into it himself anytime soon lol...there really is no alternative.

Re: RenLadder updates [message #437781 is a reply to message #435162] Mon, 11 October 2010 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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If the bug can be located I may be able to work around it. You know, something like "ladder points = actual ladder + something else"...

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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437789 is a reply to message #435162] Mon, 11 October 2010 19:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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I didn't want to say anything until I was sure, but I have resolved the problem where the server wasn't recording some games. I restarted the ladder server on October 7th and it hasn't lost a game since.

There may be other things outside of the Ladder Server causing data loss but the one I was able to identify has been fixed, it seems.


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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437802 is a reply to message #437743] Tue, 12 October 2010 03:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yrr is currently offline  Yrr
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trooprm02 wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 20:49

Well, if you are saying it looks pretty random after looking at the data its sending, Xpert (who has played around with RR quite a bit) says he doesn't think it intentional (aka its a bug), and we both know Yrr won't be looking into it himself anytime soon lol...there really is no alternative.


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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437804 is a reply to message #435162] Tue, 12 October 2010 03:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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It would be GREAT if you could fix the ladder bug! Smile

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Re: RenLadder updates [message #437805 is a reply to message #435162] Tue, 12 October 2010 04:05 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Yrr is currently offline  Yrr
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Okay, but first I need to know what the bug actually is.
I never played on WOL.


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