Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » How do we get Renegade great again?
| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435213 is a reply to message #435205] |
Sat, 21 August 2010 11:57   |
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| luv2pb wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 13:24 |
| Goztow wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 02:44 |
I'm sure you thought of this, but... it's also very illegal.
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No it isn't.
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Although tournaments are cool, and there needs to be more of them, they won't really breathe much life into the game. Tournament games are private, and private games happen all the time. Renegade would need something that can boost playercounts in public servers and get more servers populated.
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435243 is a reply to message #435225] |
Sat, 21 August 2010 20:26 |
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luv2pb
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| snpr1101 wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 17:35 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 17:32 |
That's why I said give away prizes.
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I think NS has some sort of system like that going. If I'm not mistaken, I think sometimes they have prizes that can be outright won; and then you can accumulate "n00b dollars" which are used as a currency to buy stuff.
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You earn n00b dollars by being active in the community. Then you use those n00b dollars like raffle tickets. The more you put in the more chance you have of winning. We do 3-4 various things every month. A itunes gift card one just finished and we have a jackpot on up now.
It is great for the community but doesn't really do anything for Renegade. If you try to pay your players all you get is StallionDavid playing in your server alone all month.
The reality is unless the server owners (the actually owners not the people who pretend to be important) stop looking at things like a competition and consolidate nothing is going to change.
N00bstories Director Of Operations
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435254 is a reply to message #434013] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 00:38 |
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Goztow
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The problem is that most people see consolidating as "I'll take over that community's player base" :-S. And well... there's little less you can do to consolidate anyway, I guess.
Ideally we'd just have a list with 8'ish serversn all with a different setup / purpose (snipe, modded, big, small).
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435264 is a reply to message #435199] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 02:25 |
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| cmatt42 wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 11:03 |
| argathol3 wrote on Sat, 21 August 2010 05:55 |
That ladder is broken...
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How?
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For one it says I got 100+ kills on the canyon game I frapsed and I'm 100% sure that didn't happen it says I've only played 14 games which isn't even close (embarrassingly so but I've had a lot of time on my hands this month). It's also missing multiple hour long games(at least 6-7 of them) in jelly-marathon.
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[Updated on: Sun, 22 August 2010 02:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435280 is a reply to message #434013] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 07:18 |
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The thing I don't like about these n00bdollers is the fact that you use them as raffle tickets.
That doesn't aid in getting people to play. In fact, I find it more of a deterrent. Think about it. If you wanted to try and win something by playing the game, you wouldn't be stacked against equal odds. You would have to out perform the players who already have enough n00bdollers to enter a raffle.
Granted I really don't know much about this system, I think that the best way to give away prizes would be to award the player(s) who come out on top in a ladder season.
Now, I'm not talking about having one person put their money in and give it away to some stranger just because they beat you at a video game. These things need to be organized by groups of people who pool their ideas and prizes.
It also cannot be limited to a single server. It has to take place all through out the Renegade community. The goal here is not to promote your server but to promote the entire game. It doesn't matter what server someone is playing on, just as long as they are playing the game.
[Updated on: Sun, 22 August 2010 07:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435296 is a reply to message #435280] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 12:49 |
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luv2pb
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 22 August 2010 09:18 |
The thing I don't like about these n00bdollers is the fact that you use them as raffle tickets.
That doesn't aid in getting people to play. In fact, I find it more of a deterrent. Think about it. If you wanted to try and win something by playing the game, you wouldn't be stacked against equal odds. You would have to out perform the players who already have enough n00bdollers to enter a raffle.
Granted I really don't know much about this system, I think that the best way to give away prizes would be to award the player(s) who come out on top in a ladder season.
Now, I'm not talking about having one person put their money in and give it away to some stranger just because they beat you at a video game. These things need to be organized by groups of people who pool their ideas and prizes.
It also cannot be limited to a single server. It has to take place all through out the Renegade community. The goal here is not to promote your server but to promote the entire game. It doesn't matter what server someone is playing on, just as long as they are playing the game.
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As I said before it isn't part of Renegade and can't really be. It's part of the community activity (irc, stories, forums, ect). I guess if your sole intention was to pump Ren and not have anything else at all it could work. Even then it would only work IF you had high player counts.
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435302 is a reply to message #435254] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 16:25 |
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| Goztow wrote on Sun, 22 August 2010 03:38 |
Ideally we'd just have a list with 8'ish serversn all with a different setup / purpose (snipe, modded, big, small).
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This is a good idea. One of the reasons why I don't play original C&C Renegade anymore is the sheer amount of server-side mods that most servers (all active servers?) have. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer classic Renegade gameplay with a few mods (vehicle-lock, a few other simple ones) over a lot of the crazy mods we see today. I also prefer medium games (14-20 players) over really big or really small ones.
It would be good to minimize the amount of servers and get everyone focused on playing on 5-8 servers instead of the 30 or so that are online and mostly empty. More communities should consider merging players, resources, etc. and just have two or three of each server type (two sniper servers with different rules/mods, two differently modded servers, two 24 player servers and two 64 player servers).
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435312 is a reply to message #434013] |
Sun, 22 August 2010 23:18 |
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Goztow
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Consolidating what's left of the player base would be a first step forward. But what I suggested would require as good as all communities coming together somewhere, e.g. on renforums, and make a huge deal about who hosts what. Won't happen, I'm afraid.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435315 is a reply to message #434013] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 00:26 |
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reborn
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It's not going to happen. There's a few communities that would be worth consilidating with, but in business you learn that there's no such thing as a merger; it's always a takeover, and this would be true here, too.
If MP-Gaming for example approached Crimson and said hey, we want to merge with you, I believe we would be welcomed.
However, when you got down to the nitty gritty of it all, there would no doubt be problems...
We have our own IRC network and opers etc, so which one should be used?
We have our own forums, so which one should be used?
We have our own forum moderators and permission masks, will they all be adopted?
We have our own game moderators and rules, which would be used?
We have our own domain, which would be the primary One used?
Would the merge mean that n00bstories adopts the name MP-Gaming, or MP-Gaming ceases to exist and it becomes part of n00bstories, would perhaps there be a new name?
Any sort of merge would mean losing your identity and being swallowed up.
MP-Gaming actually has an APB server with a player count comparible to n00bstories, so both have something to offer eachother, but it's never going to work. One is always going to want to adopt, rather than embrace the other.
The bottom line is, renegade needs more players. I keep banging on about it and boring everyone, but a WOL clone with a timed torrent release that connects to it might accomplish that.
In any case, even if by some miracle it did happen, as soon as you start seeing a list of only 8 servers, someone will start there own community and put up a server.
[Updated on: Mon, 23 August 2010 00:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435317 is a reply to message #435316] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 00:45 |
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reborn
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| snpr1101 wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 03:35 |
| reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 02:26 |
In any case, even if by some miracle it did happen, as soon as you start seeing a list of only 8 servers, someone will start there own community and put up a server.
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So what? Isn't the original problem the lack of players rather than the division of them?
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The suggestion put forward was done so with the intention of removing so many empty servers and consolidating them and their communities.
As soon as you do that, more servers will pop up (I believe the theory is that the strengthened larger, newly formed communities would then just better populate the servers that they merged with (making the new servers that pop up totally redundant), but in reality, the percent of server traffic that comes fromt he community forums is not as large as you might think, so I'd be willing to bet the theory is flawed somewhat).
I agree with you that the problem is the lack of players.
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435318 is a reply to message #434013] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 01:07 |
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Goztow
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Ren can be fun playing with 20 players in one server, it's less fun if there's 5 servers that compete for these 20 players and each contain 4 players.
So yes: ideally you can attract new players, but consolidating player counts in a limited amount of servers would surely contribute to the fun factor (hence to attracting more players).
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435319 is a reply to message #435317] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 01:08 |
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snpr1101
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| reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 02:45 |
| snpr1101 wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 03:35 |
| reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 02:26 |
In any case, even if by some miracle it did happen, as soon as you start seeing a list of only 8 servers, someone will start there own community and put up a server.
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So what? Isn't the original problem the lack of players rather than the division of them?
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The suggestion put forward was done so with the intention of removing so many empty servers and consolidating them and their communities.
As soon as you do that, more servers will pop up (I believe the theory is that the strengthened larger, newly formed communities would then just better populate the servers that they merged with (making the new servers that pop up totally redundant), but in reality, the percent of server traffic that comes fromt he community forums is not as large as you might think, so I'd be willing to bet the theory is flawed somewhat).
I agree with you that the problem is the lack of players.
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Servers that are empty - are empty for a reason. Merging empty servers and their staff to larger more popular servers seems pointless and asking for problems if you ask me. Why must servers and communities consolidate? I would presume that the appeal in each unique server is in itself the cause for the division of players and separate communities. Where does the necessity lie in having 10 different servers controlled by one community? Each server still serves it's purpose, they just have different names. The only necessary reason I can think of is when the current owners can no longer support their server; and so must hand it over to someone else.
More players will fill empty servers and increase community numbers if they so desire to play CTF, Co-Op (insert empty server mode here). As you say, that is the main problem at hand. Whilst probably being counter-productive to the thread - Is it even worth it? Is it not enough to play with what we have and remember our 8 years of renegade with fond memories.
Note that I do not mean to come across as critical, I am merely curious.
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435340 is a reply to message #435319] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 12:22 |
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luv2pb
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| snpr1101 wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 03:08 |
| reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 02:45 |
| snpr1101 wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 03:35 |
| reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 02:26 |
In any case, even if by some miracle it did happen, as soon as you start seeing a list of only 8 servers, someone will start there own community and put up a server.
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So what? Isn't the original problem the lack of players rather than the division of them?
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The suggestion put forward was done so with the intention of removing so many empty servers and consolidating them and their communities.
As soon as you do that, more servers will pop up (I believe the theory is that the strengthened larger, newly formed communities would then just better populate the servers that they merged with (making the new servers that pop up totally redundant), but in reality, the percent of server traffic that comes fromt he community forums is not as large as you might think, so I'd be willing to bet the theory is flawed somewhat).
I agree with you that the problem is the lack of players.
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Servers that are empty - are empty for a reason. Merging empty servers and their staff to larger more popular servers seems pointless and asking for problems if you ask me. Why must servers and communities consolidate? I would presume that the appeal in each unique server is in itself the cause for the division of players and separate communities. Where does the necessity lie in having 10 different servers controlled by one community? Each server still serves it's purpose, they just have different names. The only necessary reason I can think of is when the current owners can no longer support their server; and so must hand it over to someone else.
More players will fill empty servers and increase community numbers if they so desire to play CTF, Co-Op (insert empty server mode here). As you say, that is the main problem at hand. Whilst probably being counter-productive to the thread - Is it even worth it? Is it not enough to play with what we have and remember our 8 years of renegade with fond memories.
Note that I do not mean to come across as critical, I am merely curious.
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Every server has players but they don't want to play alone so they don't play. N00bstories could easily absorb 90% of the dysfunctional servers - not that I am saying that is what we want or would even be the best course. It isn't about the name or the staff members. If they had a place to play again then in theory they would. There is some truth to empty servers are empty for a reason but that isn't nearly the whole story.
For some reason server owners see that as defeat or an admission of failure. When in fact it is simply being a good owner and adapting to the times to give the players you do have an honest game. I'm not really sure at this point how some of these servers are even staying up. Who the hell pays that kind of money every month for a server to sit there idle? It's stupid too because the only two communities that are in a position to continue to sustain in Renegade are us and Jelly anyways.
What servers should do is stick to what they are good at and absorb the rest in that category. An example is us and Jelly. They kick our ass at marathon but we dominate them at AOW. So we should focus on AOW on and they should focus on marathon only. But as Jelly is so happy to admit he doesn't care about Renegade.
It really doesn't matter though because the people in place to do something about it are more interested in drama than the good of Renegade. No one actually gives a shit about this game so long as they can cause some drama or boost their ego.
N00bstories Director Of Operations
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435346 is a reply to message #435340] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 13:46 |
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reborn
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| luv2pb wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 15:22 |
What servers should do is stick to what they are good at and absorb the rest in that category. An example is us and Jelly. They kick our ass at marathon but we dominate them at AOW. So we should focus on AOW on and they should focus on marathon only. But as Jelly is so happy to admit he doesn't care about Renegade.
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It's the "absorb" part that doesn't sit well with most. Losing their own identity. But yu're right, it's their own ego getting in the way.
| luv2pb wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 15:22 |
It really doesn't matter though because the people in place to do something about it are more interested in drama than the good of Renegade. No one actually gives a shit about this game so long as they can cause some drama or boost their ego.
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In large, you're probably right. However, not everone is the same.
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435361 is a reply to message #435346] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 18:49 |
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Crimson
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| reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 13:46 |
| luv2pb wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 15:22 |
What servers should do is stick to what they are good at and absorb the rest in that category. An example is us and Jelly. They kick our ass at marathon but we dominate them at AOW. So we should focus on AOW on and they should focus on marathon only. But as Jelly is so happy to admit he doesn't care about Renegade.
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It's the "absorb" part that doesn't sit well with most. Losing their own identity. But yu're right, it's their own ego getting in the way.
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Yeah, that's definitely an ego thing. If you're more concerned about losing your identity instead of giving your players a place to play, then you deserve to have an empty server.
If any server owner decides they don't want to waste money anymore and want to merge into n00bstories, I'm more than willing to have the conversation. Even if you do lose some of your players to other servers because the destination server isn't quite what they like, then you're still accomplishing the goal.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435363 is a reply to message #435361] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 19:14 |
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HaTe
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Time killed Renegade, and unless we can go back in time, it will not be great again. Better graphics in games are out, better gameplay, and everything. It seems that for the most part the people who still play Renegade play it either because they have friends that they love to play the game with, and would otherwise not play with them; or they love the game in general, and are addicted to it; or are too poor to get a better game. The communities are what keep Renegade alive, not the general Renegade population. Communities working for their community, and making sure it succeeds is the best way for Renegade to stay alive. The players who play all day and sit in one server for 5+ minutes waiting for someone to join are the ones helping Renegade more than the ones discussing and planning on improving the game quite honestly. To be honest, I think that the number of players in Renegade at a time will increase when TT releases, but not because it will attract new people - but just because the new maps will make people want to keep playing, and will have them playing more. Playing and playing more is how we keep it alive. Getting it great is really a stupid suggestion honestly, because if it's not great to you at this point, then you likely don't play too much, and in turn are one of the ones killing it more than helping it. The truth hurts :/
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ - Edmund Burke
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435364 is a reply to message #435346] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 19:14 |
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luv2pb
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| reborn wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 15:46 |
| luv2pb wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 15:22 |
What servers should do is stick to what they are good at and absorb the rest in that category. An example is us and Jelly. They kick our ass at marathon but we dominate them at AOW. So we should focus on AOW on and they should focus on marathon only. But as Jelly is so happy to admit he doesn't care about Renegade.
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It's the "absorb" part that doesn't sit well with most. Losing their own identity. But yu're right, it's their own ego getting in the way.
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I know Crim used it but I don't like the word "merge" in this instance. It implies a partnership or joined ownership. That isn't what would happen because the servers were talking about have nothing to offer.
N00bstories Director Of Operations
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| Re: How do we get Renegade great again? [message #435376 is a reply to message #435363] |
Mon, 23 August 2010 23:52 |
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snpr1101
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| HaTe wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 21:14 |
Time killed Renegade, and unless we can go back in time, it will not be great again. Better graphics in games are out, better gameplay, and everything. It seems that for the most part the people who still play Renegade play it either because they have friends that they love to play the game with, and would otherwise not play with them; or they love the game in general, and are addicted to it; or are too poor to get a better game. The communities are what keep Renegade alive, not the general Renegade population. Communities working for their community, and making sure it succeeds is the best way for Renegade to stay alive. The players who play all day and sit in one server for 5+ minutes waiting for someone to join are the ones helping Renegade more than the ones discussing and planning on improving the game quite honestly. To be honest, I think that the number of players in Renegade at a time will increase when TT releases, but not because it will attract new people - but just because the new maps will make people want to keep playing, and will have them playing more. Playing and playing more is how we keep it alive. Getting it great is really a stupid suggestion honestly, because if it's not great to you at this point, then you likely don't play too much, and in turn are one of the ones killing it more than helping it. The truth hurts :/
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I guess Renegade is like one of those sweet old vintage cars. It may not be as fuel efficient as the cars of today. It may not go as fast as the cars of today. But when you admire it's classic style and take it for a drive, you can't help but admire it and the unique niche it occupies despite the contemporary surrounds.
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