Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Design of a new, free renegade-like game
| Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434392] |
Sun, 08 August 2010 23:15  |
macimania
Messages: 6
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
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I've been working on brainstorming a game design for a multiplayer game that plays much like renegade, yet is unique enough to prevent EA from shutting it down for copyright infringement (I'm not sure how Renegade X is handling this... but I'm still looking forward to what they are producing!).
Before fully fleshing out the details, I would greatly appreciate your suggestions and feedback. It is important to me that this game is one that we all want to play. Quite frankly I'm tired of all these boring, monotonous, unoriginal, twitch FPSs out there... (CoD anyone?).
Main Focus:
The game I want to produce is one that is strongly team-oriented. One where teamwork is rewarded by being more fun than flying solo (don't worry - rank will reflect this too). One that offers the freedom and unpredictability of Renegade - permitting everyone to play with their own style, however dynamic it may be.
Game Modes:
The main game mode will be the same as Renegade: destroy the opposition's base (or get points trying). I have another couple modes in mind, but they have to be properly balanced before I know if they'll work.
Questions:
I have a few questions to ask of everyone here:
What aspects of renegade do you find to be the most fun?
What aspects must be present to preserve the renegade "experience"?
What aspects could use improvement/additions/removal?
For me, fun is the result of successful teamwork, occasional guerilla tactics, rushes, and supporting your teammates (I'm sure I'm forgetting things here). There are a couple things in the renegade experience that must be preserved. At the top of my list is a very important item: the repair gun. As important as the repair gun is, it can be a tad mundane using it as a supporting character (with no offensive characteristics). This is one aspect that I seek to improve. There are many other things as well (e.g. necessity of superweapons), but I don't want to make this post any longer than it already is.
Let me know your opinion/critique on the matter! 
Thanks!
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434395 is a reply to message #434392] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 00:00  |
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Goztow
Messages: 9738
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 14
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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I might add more, but here's two already.
* The two sides are totally different, yet 100 % balanced without paper - scissor - rock (at least for tanking)
* You can have fun games with 2v2 up to 15v15 on the same maps
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434396 is a reply to message #434392] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 00:35 |
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reborn
Messages: 3231
Registered: September 2004
Location: uk - london
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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I like the C&C mode of it; Not just join a team and kill the other infantry. But the economy, the strats and the intricies of the game.
A must include for me is C&C mode.
The addition of VoIP being integrated into the game, with a better ban system, auto-downloader for the servers and excellent maintained and supported anti-cheat system would all be welcome additions. Effective homing rockets would also be welcome; removing the need for the effect the Ramjet has on the light vehicle skin type.
I think the game might be immrpoved with more moves for the characters, like forward, backward and side-way rolls. The ability to lie down flat on the ground.
Couple more vehicles might be nice, but would have to be very well tested for balance.
How do you plan on accomplishing all this? Are you in any sort of position to actually deliver?
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434406 is a reply to message #434402] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 02:17 |
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reborn
Messages: 3231
Registered: September 2004
Location: uk - london
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| macimania wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 04:43 |
@reborn & snpr1101: I have a team of programmers, modellers, and a couple musicians
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I'd really like to believe you, but unless you introduce these people (specifically the programmers) everyone here will believe you to be lieing, or a Walter Mitty type character.
Don't get me wrong, it's a nice idea, but perhaps you've taken the day dream a little too far?
I hope I am wrong.
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434407 is a reply to message #434404] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 02:21 |
nopol10
Messages: 1043
Registered: February 2005
Location: Singapore
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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If you didn't even mention "points-fix" the problem won't even be found anywhere near this new game he is trying to make but now that you mentioned it...
About this new game, chat should be just the way it is in Renegade, on top and easily accessible, with a proper full chat history as well, unlike say Alien Swarm, which makes the chat history disappear for some reason or other.
I'm not sure if you can do anything about my next point but here it is anyway. Lag should not be a major factor in the game. In Renegade I can (read: have to) play on servers with 300 ping rather well but when I enter an UT3 or Renegade X game with the same ping I can't play as well, in fact sometimes its impossible for me to hit any opponent at all.
nopol10=Nopol=nopol(GSA)
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434408 is a reply to message #434407] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 02:43 |
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reborn
Messages: 3231
Registered: September 2004
Location: uk - london
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| nopol10 wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 05:21 |
In Renegade I can (read: have to) play on servers with 300 ping rather well but when I enter an UT3 or Renegade X game with the same ping I can't play as well, in fact sometimes its impossible for me to hit any opponent at all.
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| StealthEye wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 01:50 |
Although they are both called 'ping', you're probably not comparing the same things. Renegade's ping includes processing on both the sending and receiving end, this can easily add a few dozen milliseconds to the ping. Other games likely use raw ICMP pings or something, which may show smaller values.
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434409 is a reply to message #434406] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 03:03 |
macimania
Messages: 6
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
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For all I know, we might be biting off a piece that is bigger than we can chew -- but we're going to do our best. Don't expect a game to be created overnight.
My own experience in programming lies primarily in writing math and physics simulations. I've started reading up a little more on mesh optimization and generation (there is a lot to know), and I've been pondering means of producing more efficient and realistic looking textures while using a minimal amount of computational resources. Math is my strength here.
My close friend has been programming for years, and has experience with several languages. His experience is fairly diverse, and has worked the past couple summers as a programmer in one of the departments at the University we attend.
There are also another couple individuals with experience in C++ who I know through my brother.
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434413 is a reply to message #434407] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 03:58 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| nopol10 wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 05:21 |
I'm not sure if you can do anything about my next point but here it is anyway. Lag should not be a major factor in the game. In Renegade I can (read: have to) play on servers with 300 ping rather well but when I enter an UT3 or Renegade X game with the same ping I can't play as well, in fact sometimes its impossible for me to hit any opponent at all.
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Do you want to know why? It's because the Unreal Engine 3 handles lag differently than Renegade. You see, in Renegade, you're position and firing data (client info) is uploaded to the server where all the players then download it and read it. Lag in this case would make your actions delayed or things like that.
However, in UE3, lag translates into bullet delay. You see, when you're lagging in UT3, the shots you make aren't detected when you actually hit the target. (There is obviously more to it than that, but that's the main effect it gives you)
IMO, it's extremely annoying. It makes playing awesome games like Renegade X a lot less fun then they could be. How am I supposed to enjoy it when my bullets pass right through enemy infantry?
[Updated on: Mon, 09 August 2010 03:59] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434425 is a reply to message #434392] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 12:24 |
macimania
Messages: 6
Registered: August 2010
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I fully understand that the time required to design and create a game is ridiculous -- but to me, it will certainly be worth my time as a university student. While 95% of students will be procrastinating and dedicating their free time to Facebook, I would rather take on a challenge, and engage in the learning experience that is game development.
Too many games out there focus on the importance of the individual. I want to produce a game that can convert lone wolves into team players [insert cynicism here]. Renegade is a game that is more fun to play through cooperation as a team, which is why I want the input of renegade players in order to produce a game that can accomplish this. The more opinions I have to work from in terms of what works and what doesn't, the easier it will be (albeit still not easy) to simulate, both in my mind and on paper, the game that I want to design.
The cynicism of several of you here is not entirely unfounded for the reasons already pointed out, but I would still like to try. At the very least, this thread could be a valuable resource to somebody out there. I still expect more criticism, but I would also appreciate more opinions as well (it is good to hear both).
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434440 is a reply to message #434392] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 15:22 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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A lot of you are dicks.
I say, go for it man- it'll be tough, but make sure you understand the core of Renegade's gameplay first before working on this.
To answer your questions:
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What aspects of renegade do you find to be the most fun?
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The whole idea that battles are more than just "herpa derpa runan and shootan". You have to actually think, coordinate, and strategize to win. Not to mention, it doesn't prioritize realism over fun. Which is awesome, and is how a video game should be.
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What aspects must be present to preserve the renegade "experience"?
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First of all, the C&C mode. This is imperative to keep- C&C mode MADE Renegade what it was. Yeah, Renegade would be a lot more fun if it had different modes packed with it, but C&C mode was the core gameplay and made it unique. If it was just DM, even with vehicles, it would NOT be interesting.
So, keep the bases, the idea that bases have a PURPOSE, and that to get rid of the enemy base you have to DESTROY it (none of this bullshit of just standing in their base to take it over)
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What aspects could use improvement/additions/removal?
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Infantry battles are really very simple in Renegade, and it's a little saddening. I'd love to see stuff like rolling, recoil, melee combat, sprinting, and etc.
I'd also love to see infantry classes be less of a "Same thing, but better and more expensive".
Lastly, MAKE SNIPERS ACTUALLY WORK LIKE SNIPERS. This irritated me the most about Renegade- snipers were just infantry with long range. They were hardly snipers.
If I think of anything more, I'll let you know. Best of luck to ya.
EDIT: I agree on the point of engineers, it's disappointing how little of a reward they get for supporting their team, but just giving them points and such can mess with the balance. Think of a way to make it worthwhile to be a support character- Team Fortress 2 did it really well with the medic.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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[Updated on: Mon, 09 August 2010 15:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434443 is a reply to message #434408] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 17:01 |
nopol10
Messages: 1043
Registered: February 2005
Location: Singapore
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| reborn wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 17:43 |
| nopol10 wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 05:21 |
In Renegade I can (read: have to) play on servers with 300 ping rather well but when I enter an UT3 or Renegade X game with the same ping I can't play as well, in fact sometimes its impossible for me to hit any opponent at all.
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| StealthEye wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 01:50 |
Although they are both called 'ping', you're probably not comparing the same things. Renegade's ping includes processing on both the sending and receiving end, this can easily add a few dozen milliseconds to the ping. Other games likely use raw ICMP pings or something, which may show smaller values.
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Ah I see, but I am still forced to play UT3 against bots because of how it handles lag etc as R315r4z0r pointed out and since macimania said he'll probably be using the UDK for this, I'm concerned that that will put me off it if it ever got made.
nopol10=Nopol=nopol(GSA)
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434444 is a reply to message #434413] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 17:48 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 12:58 |
| nopol10 wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 05:21 |
I'm not sure if you can do anything about my next point but here it is anyway. Lag should not be a major factor in the game. In Renegade I can (read: have to) play on servers with 300 ping rather well but when I enter an UT3 or Renegade X game with the same ping I can't play as well, in fact sometimes its impossible for me to hit any opponent at all.
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Do you want to know why? It's because the Unreal Engine 3 handles lag differently than Renegade. You see, in Renegade, you're position and firing data (client info) is uploaded to the server where all the players then download it and read it. Lag in this case would make your actions delayed or things like that.
However, in UE3, lag translates into bullet delay. You see, when you're lagging in UT3, the shots you make aren't detected when you actually hit the target. (There is obviously more to it than that, but that's the main effect it gives you)
IMO, it's extremely annoying. It makes playing awesome games like Renegade X a lot less fun then they could be. How am I supposed to enjoy it when my bullets pass right through enemy infantry?
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On the other hand, renegade's lag free system is a major anti-cheat fuck-up.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Design of a new, free renegade-like game [message #434450 is a reply to message #434392] |
Mon, 09 August 2010 22:21 |
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[NE]Fobby[GEN]
Messages: 1377
Registered: July 2004
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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It's all about the difference between client-side hit detection and server-side hit detection. A lot of older games had client-side, and newer games have server-side. There are exceptions.
Server-side hit detection:
+ Excellent way to thwart client cheats
- Hits must be registered with the server; a laggy server = shots are made an X amount of time after pulling the trigger, depending on the ping.
Client-side hit detection:
+ All shots register instantly
- Client cheats are easy to make, use, and are difficult to get rid of completely.
Back on topic
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Like a lot of others are mentioned, to me, the best part about Renegade is the base systems. I think a lot of us are bored of Deathmatch, Capture the Flag, and all of those other overdone gamemodes. C&C mode allows dynamic gameplay to take place. The teams that work together are rewarded; the ones that don't watch their buildings are punished and crippled. I love how each building has a roughly equally devastating, but different effect on the team.
I wish you the best of luck on your project. The UDK is a fantastic engine and you'll have fun modding it. If your team needs anything, talk to us, our team (Renegade X) can help you out in any way we can.
Unreal Tournament 3 Total Conversion to C&C: Renegade
Check out Renegade X Today!
Mod Wars Veteran
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