Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Jus wondering ..
( ) 2 Votes
| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428900 is a reply to message #428883] |
Thu, 20 May 2010 18:33   |
Sean
Messages: 822
Registered: February 2009
Karma: 0
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| T0RN wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 17:03 |
| Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 13:50 |
| Trojan wrote on Tue, 18 May 2010 14:03 |
0x90 is seriously the Osama Bin Laden of renegade.
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He secretly works for Crimson to screw up the community and then make her look like the hero?
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I resent that.
Crimson is part of the TT team (pr) or something. So if 0x90 worked for her, why don't they have the source code to the new/old rgh? Please stop making up bs please. Hurry up n ban this fag and we can be done with it for good.
Head admin at TmX (The Matrix Sniper server)
irc.thematrixserver.com
The Matrix Sniper: 188.138.84.134:4576
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428901 is a reply to message #428900] |
Thu, 20 May 2010 18:44 |
dr3w2
Messages: 485
Registered: September 2006
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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| Azazel wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 20:33 |
| T0RN wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 17:03 |
| Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 13:50 |
| Trojan wrote on Tue, 18 May 2010 14:03 |
0x90 is seriously the Osama Bin Laden of renegade.
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He secretly works for Crimson to screw up the community and then make her look like the hero?
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I resent that.
Crimson is part of the TT team (pr) or something. So if 0x90 worked for her, why don't they have the source code to the new/old rgh? Please stop making up bs please. Hurry up n ban this fag and we can be done with it for good.
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it looked like a joke to me yo.
n00bstories Server Administrator
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428903 is a reply to message #428900] |
Thu, 20 May 2010 18:46 |
dr3w2
Messages: 485
Registered: September 2006
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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| Azazel wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 20:33 |
| T0RN wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 17:03 |
| Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 13:50 |
| Trojan wrote on Tue, 18 May 2010 14:03 |
0x90 is seriously the Osama Bin Laden of renegade.
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He secretly works for Crimson to screw up the community and then make her look like the hero?
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I resent that.
Crimson is part of the TT team (pr) or something. So if 0x90 worked for her, why don't they have the source code to the new/old rgh? Please stop making up bs please. Hurry up n ban this fag and we can be done with it for good.
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Oh yeah and have you not read what people have said? Banning him doesn't do a thing. He can make a new account, browse annoymously and/or use web proxies. Not to mention he has been very, very calm, honest and polite around here. If he was dropping the links to the cheats here - definately bad. He has done nothing of the sorts and "banning" him will simply require him to EASILY get around it. There's still no harm done to renegade by him "having an account" and having "0x90" show up in a post username.
n00bstories Server Administrator
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428907 is a reply to message #428903] |
Thu, 20 May 2010 23:06 |
Pyr0man1c
Messages: 186
Registered: April 2009
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| andr3w282 wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 20:46 |
| Azazel wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 20:33 |
| T0RN wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 17:03 |
| Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 13:50 |
| Trojan wrote on Tue, 18 May 2010 14:03 |
0x90 is seriously the Osama Bin Laden of renegade.
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He secretly works for Crimson to screw up the community and then make her look like the hero?
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I resent that.
Crimson is part of the TT team (pr) or something. So if 0x90 worked for her, why don't they have the source code to the new/old rgh? Please stop making up bs please. Hurry up n ban this fag and we can be done with it for good.
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Oh yeah and have you not read what people have said? Banning him doesn't do a thing. He can make a new account, browse annoymously and/or use web proxies. Not to mention he has been very, very calm, honest and polite around here. If he was dropping the links to the cheats here - definately bad. He has done nothing of the sorts and "banning" him will simply require him to EASILY get around it. There's still no harm done to renegade by him "having an account" and having "0x90" show up in a post username.
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It was a joke. Anyway I think azazel was talking about banning me 
"Sapere Aude- Dare to be wise"
| AmunRa |
and its all this "drama" that will one day end renegade...
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Quotes| v00d00 |
A question regarding RenGuard. Because it's a client/server application, what will stop the legions of people who cheat, and can crack apps, from reverse engineering it down to it's core protocol / encryption (which I'll assume it has), and duplicating it, so that they have their own client which responds to the server with all the correct info for an unpatched Renegade, but in fact is patched.
Personally, I think you should write a server-side only anti-cheat, which hooks the networking routines in Renegade. From there, using either the help of your staff who worked on creating Renegade, or from knowledge aquired while working with the network code in Renegade, create a system to monitor hit locations (did they REALLY hit, based on calculations by the anti-cheat (stopping BH)), how much damage are they claiming, vs how much damage their currently selected weapon really does, etc.
Then, add rate-of-fire checking, complete w/ lag tolerance (since lagged client will of course, upon delag, seem to fire faster, etc), and option to simply "edit" the incoming packets, to filter out the cheat (reduce damage, stop bullets, etc), or kick-ban the cheater (admins decision, based on anti cheat config).
Is it just me, or does that make more sense?
The flaw to Renegade of course, which is the core to the cheats, is that unlike most other games, Renegade lets the CLIENT decide hit locations, damage, RoF, etc. Vs others which say, "ok, the client fired their pistol along this trajectory. Did they hit something? How much damage did they do to that target if so. Report findings to clients".
My only concern, is that there will be alot more teams of people ripping apart the hard work of your small team, and undoing what you have done. Can you keep up writing fixes / completely rewriting the protocol to counter them once they have created their OWN complete anti-RenGuard client? If not, consider the server-side only method, and solve it once and for all, with the only version changes being to fix bugs, and not complete rewrites which will really piss admins off (if it takes this long for the initial, how long after the cheaters create their own client to counter it will your rewrite take to do?).
- v00d00
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| ELiT3FLyR |
ill say this again to all the TT people actually working on the patch. all you have to do is fix the bugs in the game. This is your role. dont get involved in a pointfix debate that you can never win (spoony has never managed to win one and hes a decent player) nor bother suggesting solutions for the faults in pointfix. just fix the damn bugs and you will all be remmebered as renegade heroes.
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428909 is a reply to message #428907] |
Thu, 20 May 2010 23:49 |
Sean
Messages: 822
Registered: February 2009
Karma: 0
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| Pyr0man1c wrote on Fri, 21 May 2010 01:06 |
| andr3w282 wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 20:46 |
| Azazel wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 20:33 |
| T0RN wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 17:03 |
| Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 20 May 2010 13:50 |
| Trojan wrote on Tue, 18 May 2010 14:03 |
0x90 is seriously the Osama Bin Laden of renegade.
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He secretly works for Crimson to screw up the community and then make her look like the hero?
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I resent that.
Crimson is part of the TT team (pr) or something. So if 0x90 worked for her, why don't they have the source code to the new/old rgh? Please stop making up bs please. Hurry up n ban this fag and we can be done with it for good.
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Oh yeah and have you not read what people have said? Banning him doesn't do a thing. He can make a new account, browse annoymously and/or use web proxies. Not to mention he has been very, very calm, honest and polite around here. If he was dropping the links to the cheats here - definately bad. He has done nothing of the sorts and "banning" him will simply require him to EASILY get around it. There's still no harm done to renegade by him "having an account" and having "0x90" show up in a post username.
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It was a joke. Anyway I think azazel was talking about banning me
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Well sorry..I've been hanging around Jelly irc too much dunno what a joke is anymore it seams.  and no to my knowlage you've never cheated, so why would I want you to be banned lol
I realise that he can 'browse the web anonymously' and/or create new accounts which is sad, but the facts are no attemps have even been made to ban him here. As George said, we should make him unwelcome at every corner and tell him to fuck off for good.
I was very tired when I wrote my last post anyways, doesn't excuse it tho :S
Head admin at TmX (The Matrix Sniper server)
irc.thematrixserver.com
The Matrix Sniper: 188.138.84.134:4576
[Updated on: Thu, 20 May 2010 23:58] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428910 is a reply to message #427982] |
Fri, 21 May 2010 00:02 |
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reborn
Messages: 3231
Registered: September 2004
Location: uk - london
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Clearly, so far 0x90 hasn't seemed to care what we think, otherwise he wouldn't make and release these cheats. So banning him will help encourage him to care? No.
Involving him in our community, and trying to make a connection with him. That actually may make him think twice about fucking the community over? Yes.
I understand the principle behind wanting him banned. I truely do understand it, but I fear it would be a case of "cutting our nose off, to spite our face".
Maybe my opinion is wrong, but there are very few options available, removing One of them may only serve the purpose of satisfying a principle, making a moral stand, but in reality just shoots us in the foot.
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428946 is a reply to message #428910] |
Fri, 21 May 2010 13:09 |
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IAmFenix
Messages: 447
Registered: October 2007
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| reborn wrote on Fri, 21 May 2010 02:02 |
Clearly, so far 0x90 hasn't seemed to care what we think, otherwise he wouldn't make and release these cheats. So banning him will help encourage him to care? No.
Involving him in our community, and trying to make a connection with him. That actually may make him think twice about fucking the community over? Yes.
I understand the principle behind wanting him banned. I truely do understand it, but I fear it would be a case of "cutting our nose off, to spite our face".
Maybe my opinion is wrong, but there are very few options available, removing One of them may only serve the purpose of satisfying a principle, making a moral stand, but in reality just shoots us in the foot.
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I agree with reborn here, it would do worse to ban 0x90.
He helps out where he can, and doesn't put links up for rgh.
Overall, he's acting very benign, and the attacks against him can be seen a justified from their own light, but I don't think that logic would work.
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428965 is a reply to message #427982] |
Fri, 21 May 2010 20:04 |
raven
Messages: 595
Registered: January 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Karma: 0
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If any of you actually took the time to have a chat with him rather than immediately cast him out and chastise him you would see that he is a well mannered, extremely nice individual who is willing to help at any chance he gets
-Jelly Administrator
-Exodus Administrator
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428979 is a reply to message #428977] |
Sat, 22 May 2010 03:05 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Spoony wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 11:39 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 04:06 |
| raven wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 05:04 |
If any of you actually took the time to have a chat with him rather than immediately cast him out and chastise him you would see that he is a well mannered, extremely nice individual who is willing to help at any chance he gets
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True, but that doesn't count for a lot of people apparently.
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it seems more of the case that the fact he's done such an unbelievable amount of damage to this game doesn't matter to you, nor does the fact he's openly stated his intention to carry on doing these things.
another thing that doesn't seem to count for you seems to be the track record of honesty and diligence from those of us who used to run communities that your new "trustworthy ally" has done his best to kill.
btw raven, see reborn's earlier analysis of 0x90's attitude. and as for what 0x90 finds "satisfying", it wouldn't surprise me at all if the most satisfying thing for him right now would be watching people like EWD utterly humiliate themselves by defending him at all costs, even if the price is by attacking their allies.
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I have never seen you as my ally.
Also you ignored what I said. Just quoting the pieces you can flame on.
Oh and I do care about the damage he has done, but I also know that he can do much more damage. Easily.
For that reason, I don't want to disassociate him now. Until we have fixed these huge gaping hopes in Renegade security we can only be thankful that he has done so little regarding cheats and hacks. AKA, you don't know what you're talking about regarding renegade cheats.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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[Updated on: Sat, 22 May 2010 03:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428984 is a reply to message #428979] |
Sat, 22 May 2010 03:28 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 05:05 |
I have never seen you as my ally.
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then it's hard to tell whether you're lying again because it would be too difficult to face the extraordinary level of corruption you've displayed in this thread, or whether you never had a fucking clue to begin with.
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Also you ignored what I said. Just quoting the pieces you can flame on.
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*just quoted the most ridiculous and insulting part of your post that needed rebuttal
as to the other part of your post, this line of "reasoning":
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Also, towards the person that bashed TT somewhere in this thread: you, and exactly you and your kind of people are the type that make working on cheats much more satisfying than Anti-cheat.
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... has already ripped to shreds
and this bit:
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Since the AC has a much larger attack plane it's much harder to secure it against cheats. Besides that we're always behind, we can only respond to new cheats once they are released.
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seems barely even worth a rebuttal in the first place
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Oh and I do care about the damage he has done, but I also know that he can do much more damage. Easily. For that reason, I don't want to disassociate him now. Until we have fixed these huge gaping hopes in Renegade security we can only be thankful that he has done so little regarding cheats and hacks.
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do yourself a favour, don't pretend you care about the damage he's done. you've already tried to use some of the damage he's done as an argument against those he did it to.
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AKA, you don't know what you're talking about regarding renegade cheats.
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that's OK, you don't know what you're talking about in terms of honesty, diligence or loyalty, which is a much more damning indictment.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428985 is a reply to message #428984] |
Sat, 22 May 2010 03:38 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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| Spoony wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 12:28 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 05:05 |
I have never seen you as my ally.
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then it's hard to tell whether you're lying again because it would be too difficult to face the extraordinary level of corruption you've displayed in this thread, or whether you never had a fucking clue to begin with.
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I never really liked you, I just saw you as a neccesary evil, as you where the leader of CW.cc and thus a logical choice in whom to consult on clan play.
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*cut* no arguemnts here, so nothing to reply to.*
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Oh and I do care about the damage he has done, but I also know that he can do much more damage. Easily. For that reason, I don't want to disassociate him now. Until we have fixed these huge gaping hopes in Renegade security we can only be thankful that he has done so little regarding cheats and hacks.
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do yourself a favour, don't pretend you care about the damage he's done. you've already tried to use some of the damage he's done as an argument against those he did it to.
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No I though up BIATCH because I like cheats damaging renegade and my own renegade server. Makes sense much?
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AKA, you don't know what you're talking about regarding renegade cheats.
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that's OK, you don't know what you're talking about in terms of honesty, diligence or loyalty, which is a much more damning indictment.
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I know who I might not be honest/loyal to, but that's just because I choose that. I am loyal to onces that are willing to engage in a fair discussion, and are willing to look for a compromise. This is something I've never seen you doing.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428986 is a reply to message #427982] |
Sat, 22 May 2010 03:51 |
Reaver11
Messages: 888
Registered: April 2007
Karma: 1
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Every game has someone creating cheats for it.
You can see it as the natural way for things to hapen.
(not saying I like it but it happens)
Also knowing Renegade for quiet some while now there are probably far worse things that could be created then *The Cheat that should not be named*. (Things like the old UDP bug)
No offence intended to EWD or Spoony, but shouldn't you two take your discussion elsewhere?
Since I really doubt that this discussion does any good for Renegade atm.
So my conclusion:
Enjoy the game for as long as it may last!
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428987 is a reply to message #428985] |
Sat, 22 May 2010 04:03 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 05:38 |
I never really liked you, I just saw you as a neccesary evil, as you where the leader of CW.cc and thus a logical choice in whom to consult on clan play.
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who cares whether you liked me?
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*cut* no arguemnts here, so nothing to reply to.*
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Oh and I do care about the damage he has done, but I also know that he can do much more damage. Easily. For that reason, I don't want to disassociate him now. Until we have fixed these huge gaping hopes in Renegade security we can only be thankful that he has done so little regarding cheats and hacks.
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do yourself a favour, don't pretend you care about the damage he's done. you've already tried to use some of the damage he's done as an argument against those he did it to.
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No I though up BIATCH because I like cheats damaging renegade and my own renegade server. Makes sense much?
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sense is, indeed, sorely lacking from your position.
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AKA, you don't know what you're talking about regarding renegade cheats.
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that's OK, you don't know what you're talking about in terms of honesty, diligence or loyalty, which is a much more damning indictment.
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I know who I might not be honest/loyal to, but that's just because I choose that. I am loyal to onces that are willing to engage in a fair discussion, and are willing to look for a compromise. This is something I've never seen you doing.
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you've said this sort of thing before...
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EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Tue, 18 May 2010 01:31
Yes I've chosen who I think is a more trustworthy ally. The one that listens to your arguments. (Hint: it's indeed not you.)
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my reply at the time:
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there you have it, ladies and gentlemen... EWD thinks 0x90 is "a more trustworthy ally" than spoony is. what more needs to be said about you than that?
i listen to your arguments too, by the way. i listened to them and i'm appalled by them. but "you aren't listening to me" is the kind of dumb thing people who're losing arguments always say. but hey, let's say that wasn't the case, let's say i "wasn't listening to you" despite this thread proving conclusively the opposite. even if that was the case, it would still say all we need to know about you if you thought this made 0x90 more "trustworthy" than me.
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^^ applicable to your more recent version too.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Sat, 22 May 2010 04:03] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428989 is a reply to message #427982] |
Sat, 22 May 2010 04:21 |
0x90
Messages: 142
Registered: September 2006
Location: Germany
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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if in the end of this topic you guys agree that I should not be banned, I'd be happy to answer all of the TT teams questions regarding rgh.
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428990 is a reply to message #428989] |
Sat, 22 May 2010 04:31 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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scum like you should be banned from the internet altogether, but don't worry, you won't actually be banned from this forum.
i'll just repeat what i've said before: if you want to undo the unbelievable amount of damage you've done to this game and this community, make a flawless anti-cheat. i personally suspect you aren't good enough of a coder to do that, which is why you'd rather take up the much smaller challenge of making cheats instead.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428993 is a reply to message #428990] |
Sat, 22 May 2010 04:44 |
0x90
Messages: 142
Registered: September 2006
Location: Germany
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Spoony wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 13:31 |
scum like you should be banned from the internet altogether, but don't worry, you won't actually be banned from this forum.
i'll just repeat what i've said before: if you want to undo the unbelievable amount of damage you've done to this game and this community, make a flawless anti-cheat. i personally suspect you aren't good enough of a coder to do that, which is why you'd rather take up the much smaller challenge of making cheats instead.
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hey spoony, yeah youre right. im a bad person and really not good enough to make an anticheat, so what? i already said MONTHS ago that i clearly chose the easier task. "chetz" is always the easier thing to do.
and i really dont get why you are hating that much. you never even talked to me or something
but do as you wish...
best wishes,
0x90
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428996 is a reply to message #428995] |
Sat, 22 May 2010 05:03 |
0x90
Messages: 142
Registered: September 2006
Location: Germany
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Spoony wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 14:02 |
| 0x90 wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 13:44 |
and i really dont get why you are hating that much. you never even talked to me or something
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if you've read my posts on the subject and you still don't understand why i hold you in such contempt, you're even thicker than I previously surmised.
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i'd just really like if you would stop flaming and hating.
do you think that would be possible?
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| Re: Jus wondering .. [message #428998 is a reply to message #428996] |
Sat, 22 May 2010 05:23 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| 0x90 wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 07:03 |
| Spoony wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 14:02 |
| 0x90 wrote on Sat, 22 May 2010 13:44 |
and i really dont get why you are hating that much. you never even talked to me or something
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if you've read my posts on the subject and you still don't understand why i hold you in such contempt, you're even thicker than I previously surmised.
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i'd just really like if you would stop flaming and hating.
do you think that would be possible?
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i've already explained that several times, and made it so simple even a gormless turd like you oughtn't to have too much trouble with it.
you have done an extraordinary amount of damage to this game. a great many people quite rightly think you're a sorry little bitch because of it, and some of us (nowhere near enough, in my view) don't mind saying this to you. maybe you won't get the ban you deserve a hundred times over, maybe this forum won't take an official stand against you, maybe some people will even go to great lengths to defend you, but that's another question.
as to what would make people like me stop thinking and saying what a wretched little cunt you are, you could start with a public and sincere apology for all the damage you've done to this game and this community, and then you can ask permission from us to let you help us fix it.
until then, you deserve much more "flaming and hating" than you're getting.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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