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Re: Catholic adoption agencies and homosexuality [message #426064 is a reply to message #426024] Sat, 17 April 2010 02:55 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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Altzan wrote on Fri, 16 April 2010 20:03

"it's only the people to whom god gave such a large gift who need to pay attention."
That's not it at all. It had to do with their situation, not theirn material wealth or reward.

again, you're deciding for yourself which parts apply to you. the bible itself does not give you a list of which bits don't apply any more.

for example, i'll still waiting to hear in which part of the new testament we hear a repudiation of the disgusting laws on rape, and an apology for inflicting such a sick system upon us and an even greater apology for all the womens' lives that have been completely ruined by its application.

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 07:44

well, there you go. the punishment for any "sin" is the same as another. for my honest criticism of christianity, i'm in for the same punishment as any mass murderer you care to name.
that's justice, is it?


He created it all, and he set the standards. There is punishment for those who don't follow.

the same feeble defence could be offered for any dictatorship with crappy laws.

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If there was a sign warning people not to stray near thin ice, it wouldn't matter who walked over it: a punk who wants to show off, a man who thinks it's safe enough, a person who doesn't think that the ice will break if he's careful - if they walk that ice, it will break.

then what will you say when you stand before god and he asks you why you didn't follow his more recent revelation to you through his prophet Mohammed?

you didn't think the ice was real? it's still gonna break!

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 07:44

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Deu 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
From what I found as I resarched this, there are disputes as to the original meaning of the phrase, 'enter into rhe congregation of the LORD'.

then there's another critique of the incompetence of the revelation.


It's a small detail. It's obvious that the phrase has to do with the culture in some way, it doesn't mean that bastards aren't going to heaven.

it's not clear at all that this is not what it means. obviously you aren't sure what it does mean.

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 07:44

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Fossils created? No, the living beings they used to be...
If life slowly spread over Earth and not just suddenly appeared, there wouldn't be fossils just mass-appearing in groups. They'd be showing up in small but increasing numbers.

i've never heard anybody suggest that the population (in animal terms) of the earth at 4000 BC was very small.


Isn't that the point?

uh no, it's the opposite of the point.

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 07:44

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Spoony wrote on Mon, 12 April 2010 10:13

so it's the same as the mafia protection, then. we're being "saved" by the guy who put us in the danger in the first place.

We're always 'in the danger' as it is from the start, then, because there are no other options other than accept or refuse...

...and who put us into that situation?


I already answered that.

sure, but you didn't seem to hear what you were saying.

the mafia protection analogy still holds.

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 07:44

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in this case, you're blaming him for not 'saving' people from punishment who've done nothing in return.

'saving' seems to be a euphemism for 'deciding not to inflict horrific punishment after all'


If you don't do 'A', then 'B' will occur. If you do, 'C' will occur.
Why blame the system for allowing 'B'? Why should the system care if you don't think it's proper?

why should the system not be an unchallengeable dictatorship?
why should the system not have such appalling laws?

well, these are very old questions. i'm by no means the first to ask them. asking them is basically the beginning of the road to freedom, and freedom starts when religion ends.

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 07:44

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Spoony wrote on Mon, 12 April 2010 10:13

the second question was simply to remind you that god is not telling us about the punishment. men wrote the bible.

Well, as I have already stated, I don't believe that.

you already acknowledged that the bible was written by men. and who's spreading the bible around? who's spreading the word of god? men. it's no different to islam.


I acknowleged it was written by men, but not that man was its author.

ah, "inspired by god"... shame there's absolutely no good reason to think that's true.

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 07:44

i hear all the time that god is intervening in world affairs... every time a natural disaster happens, for example. there's no "christians in my area" about this; we get it from christians all over the world all the time. you're the first christian i've ever heard suggest that god does not interfere in current events.


That's really strange. Practically nobody around here suggests that.
That Baptist Group I mentioned was the first I've heard in awhile.

*shrug*

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 07:44

half of the people i've asked this said evidence is not applicable


Depends on the evidence... some aspects of historical data can be, but some things in the past have virtually no trace remaining in today's time.

actually, the usual justification is what you say in a minute: "it can't be proven, duhhh"

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 07:44

the other half tried to prove it and failed.


That's the problem, it can't be proven... otherwise, virtually everyone would be Christians. Even God knew that wasn't going to happen. (Follow the strait and narrow path, there will be few who walk it.)

it's very easy to notice that the only reason christians keep saying this is because the "evidence" is so laughably feeble. if they did have proof of christianity, they'd raise the roof and everybody knows it.

the "evidence doesn't apply here, duhhh" (aka 'faith') is the biggest con trick mankind ever played on itself, it's extremely easy to see through but it's astonishing how many people have fallen for it.

and if god chose to set up a system that will reward "faith" (i.e. believing things for which you have no reason to believe, and abandoning your own morality) and will punish anyone who exercises their scepticism or moral objections, then there's another reason to think he's an evil piece of shit, and why it's so comforting that there's no reason at all to think any of it is true.

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Spoony wrote on Wed, 14 April 2010 07:44

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Spoony wrote on Mon, 12 April 2010 10:13

if you're making no distinction as to the actual likelihood of the claim, i'm not sure on what grounds you say one god is real and all the others aren't.

My grounds is my belief, I'm not trying to declare it as absolute fact.

you don't really believe it, then?


I just said I did...

i don't find that very convincing. if you don't think it's a fact i don't see how you can say you believe it.


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