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Re: Secular democracy [message #417999 is a reply to message #417997]

Tue, 19 January 2010 10:49

Starbuzzz
Messages: 1637
Registered: June 2008

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surth? / surth! wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 08:45

Starbuzzz wrote on Mon, 18 January 2010 22:17

Complacency in this matter will only be exploited by the Islamic extremists who are hell-bent on "conquest" of Europe by Islam. Perhaps that's why I am a bit supportive of and applaud the recent Swiss vote to ban minarets from being built in Switzerland. Its a baby step in the right direction. Sometimes you just have to show who's boss...even if it tarnishes the image.

Thats not being secular, thats denying people their freedom of religion. the ban on minarets was wrong, and obviously so.

You are very correct there. By banning minarets, I agree that we are denying their freedom of religion and it shouldn't happen in a true secular society. But imo there is a bigger issue...

I am saying it is too early to push for a secular society...when religion is still strong. Religion seeks to only divide people and always wants more power. Always. Their quest for power will only stop/slow the progress towards a secular environment.

If they want to build minarets then fine yes. But let's remember that this is the same group of people that cannot understand freedom of speech and expression and throw a violent protest everytime a cartoon is drawn; no one should be making any compromises to satisfy them and put up with their requirements. I am just trying to point out that in the secularists eager bid to create a equal environment for everybody they are ending up creating a society that is divided into many tribes which in turn are afraid of offending each other/extra sensitive to each other. That imho is not a secular society.

We have all the secular freedoms listed down...but everyone must recognize these freedoms and respect them in a secular society and respect the right of everyone to use these freedoms within this secular society. So when someone draws a cartoon of a religious figure, there shouldn't be protesting in the streets and death threats to the cartoonist or attempts to kill the cartoonist (this happens all the time). All what this does is hurt the society's chances of being purely secular. We are ending up with a weak society.

So when you give them even more "localized" power (like sharia courts), then we are only making this gap bigger. We are only further strengthing the various tribes inside a society and the secularists end up in a deeper hole than they were in before.

I will put it in another way; for example because there are Muslims and Christians in a biology classroom, the teacher has to be extra sensitive to not offend them (and their creationist tales) while doing his/her job. This shouldn't be the case.

Every group within a society should be tolerant of each other; not just 1 group sucking up, appeasing, and trying to please and accomodate another vicious group. That imo is not secularism.

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8746/buzzsigfinal.jpg

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[Message index]

		Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sat, 16 January 2010 19:43
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sat, 16 January 2010 22:36
		Re: Secular democracy By: Altzan on Sat, 16 January 2010 22:45
		Re: Secular democracy By: NukeIt15 on Sun, 17 January 2010 00:24
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sun, 17 January 2010 08:03
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Sun, 17 January 2010 08:51
		Re: Secular democracy By: Sean on Sun, 17 January 2010 15:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:07
		Re: Secular democracy By: nikki6ixx on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:16
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:41
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Mon, 18 January 2010 09:09
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Sun, 17 January 2010 11:47
		Re: Secular democracy By: liquidv2 on Sun, 17 January 2010 18:26
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 17 January 2010 18:27
		Re: Secular democracy By: liquidv2 on Sun, 17 January 2010 18:50
		Re: Secular democracy By: Canadacdn on Sun, 17 January 2010 21:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sun, 17 January 2010 23:25
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Mon, 18 January 2010 04:18
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Mon, 18 January 2010 21:17
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Tue, 19 January 2010 07:18
		Re: Secular democracy By: Herr Surth on Tue, 19 January 2010 07:45
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 19 January 2010 10:49
		Re: Secular democracy By: nikki6ixx on Tue, 19 January 2010 11:06
		Re: Secular democracy By: ChewML on Tue, 19 January 2010 15:47
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Tue, 19 January 2010 18:25
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 19 January 2010 19:37
		Re: Secular democracy By: ChewML on Tue, 19 January 2010 21:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Tue, 19 January 2010 15:00
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Tue, 19 January 2010 16:10
		Re: Secular democracy By: Herr Surth on Wed, 20 January 2010 07:42
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Wed, 20 January 2010 09:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: Herr Surth on Wed, 20 January 2010 09:07
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Mon, 18 January 2010 06:35
		Re: Secular democracy By: ChewML on Mon, 18 January 2010 08:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Mon, 18 January 2010 20:11
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Tue, 19 January 2010 16:35
		Re: Secular democracy By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 19 January 2010 18:05
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 07:20
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Wed, 20 January 2010 08:39
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 13:52
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Tue, 19 January 2010 05:26
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Wed, 20 January 2010 13:54
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:11
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:24
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:27
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:34
		Re: Secular democracy By: archerman on Wed, 20 January 2010 14:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Wed, 20 January 2010 17:18
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Thu, 21 January 2010 02:37
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Thu, 21 January 2010 03:48
		Re: Secular democracy By: JohnDoe on Thu, 21 January 2010 06:12
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Thu, 21 January 2010 06:39
		Re: Secular democracy By: slosha on Fri, 22 January 2010 11:33
		Re: Secular democracy By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 22 January 2010 11:53
		Re: Secular democracy By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 22 January 2010 12:49
		Re: Secular democracy By: slosha on Fri, 22 January 2010 13:22
		Re: Secular democracy By: Dover on Sat, 23 January 2010 01:30
		Re: Secular democracy By: CarrierII on Fri, 22 January 2010 12:04
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Fri, 22 January 2010 12:35
		Re: Secular democracy By: SPIKDUM on Fri, 22 January 2010 15:02
		Re: Secular democracy By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 23 January 2010 10:44
		Re: Secular democracy By: Spoony on Sat, 23 January 2010 11:44

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