| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #414831 is a reply to message #414480] |
Mon, 21 December 2009 08:25   |
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R315r4z0r
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I did not say I wasn't affected.
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I've ever since stopped it, however, since I learned about the point imbalance (which was rather recently, I might add. I never noticed the point issue until someone brought it up on these forums).
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The point I was making in what you quoted was that I never intentionally try to win by score.
They are just a by-product of playing the game the way it's meant to be played.
[Updated on: Mon, 21 December 2009 08:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #414900 is a reply to message #414831] |
Mon, 21 December 2009 21:17 |
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Spoony
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 21 December 2009 07:25 |
I did not say I wasn't affected.
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I've ever since stopped it, however, since I learned about the point imbalance (which was rather recently, I might add. I never noticed the point issue until someone brought it up on these forums).
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The point I was making in what you quoted was that I never intentionally try to win by score.
They are just a by-product of playing the game the way it's meant to be played.
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you're saying points victories were somehow not supposed to happen? there's not much evidence for that...
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415008 is a reply to message #414480] |
Tue, 22 December 2009 17:11 |
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R315r4z0r
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No, that's not what I'm saying.
Points are there for one reason: Tie braking.
The main objective in the game is to destroy the enemy team's base, not to whore the most amount of points in the time given.
The reason why I said "how it's meant to be played" was because Renegade can actually be played as a whore fest if you really wanted it to.
[Updated on: Tue, 22 December 2009 17:15] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415038 is a reply to message #414480] |
Tue, 22 December 2009 21:16 |
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archerman
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I voted option 1.
I am not a coder but I think gaining points from shooting tanks with making little damage is a side effect or something of making sniper rifles effective against flying vehicles and long range vehicles (mrls and mobile artilery).
sorry for my English
[Updated on: Tue, 22 December 2009 21:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415064 is a reply to message #415008] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 00:56 |
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Goztow
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 01:11 |
No, that's not what I'm saying.
Points are there for one reason: Tie braking.
The main objective in the game is to destroy the enemy team's base, not to whore the most amount of points in the time given.
The reason why I said "how it's meant to be played" was because Renegade can actually be played as a whore fest if you really wanted it to.
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If you relate points to damage, then it strongly encourages the main objective: destroying the base.
If a team can get points for doing no damage, then it discourages doing damage, hence discourages destroying the base.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415073 is a reply to message #415068] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 02:52 |
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Spoony
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for my part, my favourite game style is clanwars, and other than that my favourite server is the koss2. both of which are pointsfix.
people were always whingeing about how the pointsfix would kill clanwars... it was fully implemented at clanwars (for the first time fully implemented) last month and we've just had the best league month in years.
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415088 is a reply to message #415064] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 09:12 |
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R315r4z0r
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| Goztow wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 02:56 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 01:11 |
No, that's not what I'm saying.
Points are there for one reason: Tie braking.
The main objective in the game is to destroy the enemy team's base, not to whore the most amount of points in the time given.
The reason why I said "how it's meant to be played" was because Renegade can actually be played as a whore fest if you really wanted it to.
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If you relate points to damage, then it strongly encourages the main objective: destroying the base.
If a team can get points for doing no damage, then it discourages doing damage, hence discourages destroying the base.
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No it doesn't. Like I've said in my previous post, and I'm probably not the only person who plays this game who feels this way, I don't pay attention to points when I'm playing the game.
I play it for the cinematic feel of being in the battle and working with my team, not to whore redundant points off of the enemy. That's not fun, that's melodramatic retardation. If you want to do that, get some friends together and play a marathon of Asteroids or something.
The only way points offers me a reward is when I'm unsure if my attacks are hitting a target at the edge of my range. I use the points counter to see if my attacks are connecting. But other than that, they play no role in the reasoning as to why I attack the enemy base.
[Updated on: Wed, 23 December 2009 09:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415089 is a reply to message #415088] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 09:18 |
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Herr Surth
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 10:12 |
| Goztow wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 02:56 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 01:11 |
No, that's not what I'm saying.
Points are there for one reason: Tie braking.
The main objective in the game is to destroy the enemy team's base, not to whore the most amount of points in the time given.
The reason why I said "how it's meant to be played" was because Renegade can actually be played as a whore fest if you really wanted it to.
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If you relate points to damage, then it strongly encourages the main objective: destroying the base.
If a team can get points for doing no damage, then it discourages doing damage, hence discourages destroying the base.
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No it doesn't. Like I've said in my previous post, and I'm probably not the only person who plays this game who feels this way, I don't pay attention to points when I'm playing the game.
I play it for the cinematic feel of being in the battle and working with my team, not to whore redundant points off of the enemy. That's not fun, that's melodramatic retardation. If you want to do that, get some friends together and play a marathon of Asteroids or something.
The only way points offers me a reward is when I'm unsure if my attacks are hitting a target at the edge of my range. I use the points counter to see if my attacks are connecting. But other than that, they play no role in the reasoning as to why I attack the enemy base.
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lolwut
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415182 is a reply to message #415088] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 17:32 |
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Starbuzzz
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 10:12 |
| Goztow wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 02:56 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 01:11 |
No, that's not what I'm saying.
Points are there for one reason: Tie braking.
The main objective in the game is to destroy the enemy team's base, not to whore the most amount of points in the time given.
The reason why I said "how it's meant to be played" was because Renegade can actually be played as a whore fest if you really wanted it to.
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If you relate points to damage, then it strongly encourages the main objective: destroying the base.
If a team can get points for doing no damage, then it discourages doing damage, hence discourages destroying the base.
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No it doesn't. Like I've said in my previous post, and I'm probably not the only person who plays this game who feels this way, I don't pay attention to points when I'm playing the game.
I play it for the cinematic feel of being in the battle and working with my team, not to whore redundant points off of the enemy. That's not fun, that's melodramatic retardation. If you want to do that, get some friends together and play a marathon of Asteroids or something.
The only way points offers me a reward is when I'm unsure if my attacks are hitting a target at the edge of my range. I use the points counter to see if my attacks are connecting. But other than that, they play no role in the reasoning as to why I attack the enemy base.
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Perhaps you are a casual player, R3? Sure sounds like it with this post.
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415204 is a reply to message #415200] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 20:20 |
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Spoony
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what would be your opinion of someone who said the following:
"points don't matter, and neither does basekill. i just keep trying to ped nuke all the time because that's how the game is meant to be played"
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415213 is a reply to message #414480] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 21:17 |
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R315r4z0r
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You're misunderstanding my position. I don't give a crap what other people do. It's what I do that I keep an eye on.
If I think it's unfair or "cheating" then I wont do it. That's just how I am. You wont see me in any of those crazy modded servers because of that fact. But you wont see me intervening with other people's ways of playing in such instances.
If you guys want to implement a global fix then fine, by all means. However if you decide to forget about the entire thing, that's fine too. It makes no difference to me either way because I'm going to play the game the same way either way.
*face palm to the person who asks why I'm even involved in the conversation in the first place.*
[Updated on: Wed, 23 December 2009 21:22] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415215 is a reply to message #415210] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 21:30 |
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Spoony
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 22:06 |
Well, it would be the same as it is now.
The game's main objective is to destroy the enemy team's base while protecting your own (it says that on the loading screen.)
The secondary means to win a game is to score higher than your opponent in the matches time limit or to plant a beacon on the enemy's pedestal.
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actually, a ped nuke is on the same level as basekill since it trumps the points situation.
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You have to look at it from the developer's point of view, not the twisted (I don't mean that negatively) clanwar perspective.
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I think my "perspectives" have always held up pretty well.
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The reason why the game was made was to show what C&C is like in the first person perspective. C&C mode (or AOW) in Renegade was conceived with the idea of attempting to capture the RTS's feel in FPS form.
Using that, you can deduce that the main objectives is to destroy the enemy base.. that's what the battle's plot is. It's a secondary means to win a game to win by score or to win by pedestal placement.
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If that's how you came to "deduce" it then there's something wrong with the method, since you arrived at the conclusion that ped nuke is equivalent to a points victory, both trumped by basekill. it's quite clearly the case that a ped nuke is equivalent to basekill, both trumping a points victory.
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But let me clarify something that you guys seem to be confused with. I've never said that I was for or against the pointsfix. I've even said not to pay much attention to what I had to say because I don't play clanwars.
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i didn't suggest otherwise.
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I don't feel as if you should do something just because I said so. My opinion isn't god, I just thought it be constructive to hear as many different points of view as possible on the subject so you can meet everyone in the middle.
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"meeting everyone in the middle" is a common threat to these kind of debates, i find.
and if you do think that basekill is crucial and points are worthless, then the pointsfix should still suit you simply because of the economy situation and the fact you are much less likely to win games by playing defensively... after all, with the original renegade points system, crippling the enemy's economy is actually a valid option, destroying their WF is actually an advantage, etc.
what's more, when the points are added up at the end if bases are still standing, then with the original renegade points system, the points are a direct indicator of which team did more damage - in other words, which team came closer to the goal of basekill. when you let people get points for absolutely no reason, that clearly is not the case.
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[Updated on: Wed, 23 December 2009 21:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415216 is a reply to message #414480] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 21:32 |
Tunaman
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From the perspective he's portraying the worse thing would be for him to win because of 10 ramjets sniping harvs, whilst he's trying to kill the base. I bet he'd probably care if someone was cheating and killed his tanks in ONE SHOOT though. 
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415217 is a reply to message #414480] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 21:37 |
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R315r4z0r
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| Chew wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 23:27 |
Wow... you don't care what other people do to win, as long as you don't do it? I have a hard time believing that if you said you are more competitive.
So you wouldn't care if you lost because the other team sent 10 ramjets to snipe your harv and tanks? Not exactly likely to happen, but all the shots fired at green health vehicles can add up in a non-pointfix game.
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No, I'd care. But not for the reason you'd care.
I'd be upset over the fact that I couldn't steamroll over a team of ramjets. The points they earn is of no consequence to me.
I honestly do not care if I win or lose by points except for in rare instances where my team is on the verge of enemy base destruction when the time runs out and the other team wins by score. (Care not as in 'punch the monitor' care, but care as in '"aww man" then get on with my life' kind of care)
But if the time runs out and no structures on either team are destroyed, it isn't as much of an impact on me as losing via base destruction.
Like I said before, I play for the cinematic feel, not for the statistical game. I'm competitive in that I wont want to lose the battle, not in that I don't want to lose the game.
[Updated on: Wed, 23 December 2009 21:39] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pointfix poll. Bug or Balance? [message #415218 is a reply to message #415215] |
Wed, 23 December 2009 21:43 |
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Spoony
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| Spoony wrote on Wed, 23 December 2009 23:30 |
what's more, when the points are added up at the end if bases are still standing, then with the original renegade points system, the points are a direct indicator of which team did more damage - in other words, which team came closer to the goal of basekill. when you let people get points for absolutely no reason, that clearly is not the case.
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you can concede this point, surely?
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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