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Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414473 is a reply to message #414452]

Fri, 18 December 2009 18:52

Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006

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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator

HaTe wrote

Why is that? The infantry can't do anything but get points, and hopefully lay a c4 on the tank...if you take away the points, what good are light infantry against armored tanks at all?

they're not supposed to be very good against heavy armoured tanks, otherwise what would be the point of buying weapons which ARE good against heavy armoured tanks? (rav/PIC, a tank of your own, gunner, LCG...) still, they are of some use as a last resort. engineers rushing an APC/tank can at least push it back and buy your team a bit of time, or you can fix your teammates or a vehicle... in other words, you can stop trying to get points for doing absolutely nothing, and do something useful instead because there's always, always something helpful you can be doing.

Quote:

Some people enjoy not sitting in a tank all game, so the infantry part has to come in play somewhere.

rav/pics and havocs are still very worthwhile, lcgs+gunners+snipers have their uses, hotwires and techs are crucial... you don't need to get points for absolutely no reason for infantry to be helpful.

Quote:

Getting points for an infantry unit shooting an armored tank is no need for a whole discussion....

yes it is, considering what a glaring balance issue it is.

Quote:

Or say there is a tank limit, and someone does not want to sit and repair a tank all game, getting points is still necessary for the win in many cases.

so get a rav/pic/ramjet/gunner/lcg, since they're reasonably powerful and doing damage gets you points Thumbs Up

or suck it up and heal your team's vehicles, what's your problem with doing that? it certainly helps the team.

Quote:

Or if a team only has the bar or hon left, and they need credits, against a team that has tanks...it's only fair that they get them by actually shooting the tanks.

no it's not. they're achieving absolutely nothing, why should they get credits for it?

Quote:

You try and make all opposing look like idiots by proving them wrong with quotes in my opinion, and are not helping your cause.

in a debate, proving people wrong doesn't help my case... uhhhh ok, this is another of those gems you only get from the renegade community, i think.

Quote:

Opinions only, yours is no more superior than anyone elses last time i checked.

check again. not all opinions are equal. if person A has been right about everything he's said and person B has been wrong about everything he's said, their opinions are not equal. person B isn't necessarily you.

Quote:

Testing is obviously the first logical movement.

see my reply to bluethen, it'll be a bit further down.

Quote:

I have heard several players say that if the pointsfix is added, they will not play clanwars. Do we all think that more players will start clanwarring, then those who are going to leave it, with the pointsfix added? I don't believe so, but I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong. The more players, the better. Clan war's are a big part of Renegade again, we don't want them to die down again. So test it, see if the player counts go up, go down, or stay the same (of course assuming that player counts are already dropping), and then go on from there. It's obviously the logical thing to do, I don't see many players, if any, quitting clan war's all together, if the pointsfix is determined to decrease clan war players, and removed after testing.

you don't seem to be reading any of my posts.

the pointsfix has been fully implemented at clanwars.cc for the first time, starting at the beginning of november. guess what? last month was brilliant. very active, very competitive, and very balanced - every single game went to the team that deserved it. and this was in spite of the occasional ddos attack from halo idiots.

compare this to the entire year before november when i was away... people could have played as much as they like using the point mod, doesn't look like there was much activity then.

but, your argument is SOLELY about the number of people playing - nothing about fairness, nothing about balance. that's why i don't think your argument is worth very much. anyone who knows my style of league administration knows that i value fairness and balance, and if that causes a few idiots to leave, then it's not so much a price worth paying as it is a nice bonus.

Quote:

just said that if it is put in to Renegade, then the changes better be for the better, based on ALL of Renegade players, not just ones who happen to post on this forums.

it'd have been nice if that happened with the points bug years ago, eh? see my hypothetical debate about the merits of the points bug (i.e. the complete lack of)

Quote:

Yet you attack me by saying this, proving my point that the pro-pointsfix crowd is mainly all on the forums, attacking any anti-pointsfix people

ok buddy. the anti-pointsfix crowd have used the most despicable tactics IMAGINABLE, and yet i still go out of my way to engage them in debate.

Quote:

Also, for defense, a tank is shooting at you on under, you obviously have no chance of killing it if you are say, a soldier vs a med tank @ full life. The least the soldier can do is get points for defending himself.

but he's not defending himself.

Quote:

Insulting a person over the internet give a little eboner eh? Okay then. Once again, it's a credit issue, if you do not have credits, and no ref, GUESS WHAT!? You shoot tanks with light infantry, that's how it is done

no, there is always something more useful than that you can do.

Quote:

The bold words really contradict yourself...except points and money? Isn't that what the whole issue is about, getting points and money? It is not unfair at all, as both teams can do it, and both get credits and points for doing so.

both teams can do it so it's fair... please. if both teams could base to base on islands, would you approve of that?

Quote:

It isn't a balance issue, it's just that people can't stand that other people get points and mvp's for shooting tanks with infantry, while they are doing something "worthwhile" by being in a tank.

this just proves that -a- you have no idea of the way i play and what i do and don't find annoying, and -b- you haven't read any of my posts on the subject.

it is true that i object to people getting points for absolutely no reason - well done for noticing that - but you do a lot of damage to your assertion by putting the word "just" in there.

Quote:

But isn't getting points for your team still "worthwhile" if the game ends by time limit?

if someone on your team base-to-based, would you approve of that? they're getting points for the team, right? that's all that matters?

Quote:

You have never played with me, assuming i suck just on my renegade beliefs is rather...judgmental, no? I happen to be a pretty good player, thanks.

doesn't mean you can't be horribly wrong... just look at simpee.

Quote:

Apparently, if they win, they are better, no matter how they do so.

this is only the case if the game is fair. the points bug is not fair. i earlier asked if winning is all that matters to you... seems like it is.

Quote:

A game bug you say? I'm pretty sure if this was indeed a "bug" it'd be fixed WELL before this, or do you think that everyone has overlooked this? In that case, you are mistaken.

it's been conclusively proven that it's an unintended bug. CONCLUSIVELY proven.

Quote:

Who says you have to do it all game? Is there a rule I'm missing? If you can't get by light infantry with heavy tanks to win the game, then you don't deserve to win.

that's a horrible argument. games are often quite close pointswise, and one or two players getting points for absolutely no reason with autorifles/ramjets is perfectly capable of swinging the win; it happens all the time.

Quote:

Get off his wood, along with all the other high authorities on the forums, it's pathetic mate.

like i said to simpee... he agrees with me because he thinks i'm right, end of story. the only thing that's pathetic is when people like you try to look for ulterior motives to explain what he says.

Quote:

I tried Spoony's way, it is effective, is it not?

no, you just used a lot of quotes. if you were really trying "spoony's way" you'd start by reading what i said and then responding to each point i make, and you clearly haven't done that.

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[Message index]

		Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Goztow on Tue, 08 December 2009 13:47
		Re: beta test TT patch By: HaTe on Tue, 08 December 2009 15:21
		Re: beta test TT patch By: HaTe on Wed, 09 December 2009 15:25
		Re: beta test TT patch By: cmatt42 on Wed, 09 December 2009 00:16
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Goztow on Wed, 09 December 2009 02:21
		Re: beta test TT patch By: ELiT3FLyR on Wed, 09 December 2009 15:01
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Sat, 12 December 2009 00:46
		Re: beta test TT patch By: KobraOps on Wed, 16 December 2009 13:59
		Re: beta test TT patch By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 16 December 2009 15:24
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Wed, 16 December 2009 15:33
		Re: beta test TT patch By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Wed, 16 December 2009 17:29
		Re: beta test TT patch By: HaTe on Wed, 16 December 2009 17:44
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:33
		Re: beta test TT patch By: HaTe on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:56
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Wed, 16 December 2009 20:09
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Sean on Fri, 18 December 2009 03:55
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 04:28
		Re: beta test TT patch By: EvilWhiteDragon on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:12
		Re: beta test TT patch By: ChewML on Fri, 18 December 2009 09:15
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 10:19
		Re: beta test TT patch By: KobraOps on Thu, 17 December 2009 13:20
		Re: beta test TT patch By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 17 December 2009 13:59
		Re: beta test TT patch By: EvilWhiteDragon on Thu, 17 December 2009 14:08
		Re: beta test TT patch By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 17 December 2009 14:29
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Wiener on Wed, 09 December 2009 15:25
		Re: beta test TT patch By: CarrierII on Wed, 09 December 2009 15:27
		Re: beta test TT patch By: HaTe on Wed, 09 December 2009 17:04
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Gen_Blacky on Fri, 11 December 2009 07:56
		Re: beta test TT patch By: YazooGang on Fri, 11 December 2009 17:12
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Goztow on Thu, 10 December 2009 00:34
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Goztow on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:41
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Sean on Sat, 12 December 2009 16:22
		Re: beta test TT patch By: RadioactiveHell on Mon, 14 December 2009 00:25
		Re: beta test TT patch By: Tiesto on Mon, 14 December 2009 08:31
		Re: beta test TT patch By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Wed, 16 December 2009 23:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Goztow on Thu, 17 December 2009 05:50
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 17 December 2009 07:13
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: reborn on Thu, 17 December 2009 08:15
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 17 December 2009 11:50
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:54
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:57
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:09
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:05
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: liquidv2 on Thu, 17 December 2009 16:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 17 December 2009 16:49
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: BlueThen on Thu, 17 December 2009 16:55
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 17 December 2009 20:01
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: luv2pb on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:25
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 17 December 2009 12:54
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: KobraOps on Thu, 17 December 2009 13:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:01
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Tunaman on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:19
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Goztow on Fri, 18 December 2009 00:59
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:23
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: raven on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 17 December 2009 15:40
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: KobraOps on Thu, 17 December 2009 17:46
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 17 December 2009 17:56
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: KobraOps on Thu, 17 December 2009 18:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Thu, 17 December 2009 18:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: KobraOps on Thu, 17 December 2009 19:24
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 17 December 2009 22:35
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 17 December 2009 19:49
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 17 December 2009 20:09
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Fri, 18 December 2009 01:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 03:49
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:11
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Goztow on Fri, 18 December 2009 02:40
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Goztow on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:26
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GoldDrag on Fri, 18 December 2009 04:15
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:02
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:27
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Hitman on Fri, 18 December 2009 10:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 13:54
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 18 December 2009 14:19
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: BlueThen on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:05
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:40
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 16:38
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:52
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:45
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: BlueThen on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:53
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 15:57
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Crimson on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:17
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: BlueThen on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:40
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:44
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 19:05
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: BlueThen on Fri, 18 December 2009 20:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 18 December 2009 17:45
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 18 December 2009 17:54
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:56
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 18 December 2009 19:03
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 18 December 2009 18:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: kadoosh on Fri, 18 December 2009 21:12
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 18 December 2009 21:26
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: kadoosh on Fri, 18 December 2009 21:47
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Goztow on Sat, 19 December 2009 01:39
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Tunaman on Sat, 19 December 2009 01:57
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sat, 19 December 2009 05:46
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Crimson on Sat, 19 December 2009 02:08
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sat, 19 December 2009 04:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sat, 19 December 2009 13:39
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:09
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: CarrierII on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: CarrierII on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sat, 19 December 2009 10:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:14
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: CarrierII on Sat, 19 December 2009 14:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Sat, 19 December 2009 14:39
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: CarrierII on Sat, 19 December 2009 14:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Hitman on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:00
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Hitman on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:45
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sat, 19 December 2009 13:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sat, 19 December 2009 20:01
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Sat, 19 December 2009 20:48
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sat, 19 December 2009 22:11
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 December 2009 05:05
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ChewML on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:19
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 05:26
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 05:32
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 05:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 05:49
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 06:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 06:15
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 06:36
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 December 2009 06:48
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 06:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 07:05
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 07:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 08:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 08:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 09:31
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 09:52
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:23
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:48
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:52
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:42
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:43
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:33
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 22:15
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:42
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Hitman on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:44
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:48
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Spoony on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:14
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Sun, 20 December 2009 10:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:02
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: Hitman on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:10
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Sun, 20 December 2009 11:32
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Sun, 20 December 2009 12:43
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 13:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: kadoosh on Sun, 20 December 2009 15:55
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 20 December 2009 16:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 16:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 December 2009 16:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: HaTe on Sun, 20 December 2009 18:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Sun, 20 December 2009 20:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Crimson on Mon, 21 December 2009 01:13
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Mon, 21 December 2009 03:01
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Mon, 21 December 2009 04:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Mon, 21 December 2009 05:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Mon, 21 December 2009 07:40
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Jamie or NuneGa on Mon, 21 December 2009 12:59
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Mon, 21 December 2009 22:14
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Mon, 21 December 2009 13:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Goztow on Mon, 21 December 2009 13:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Mon, 21 December 2009 14:03
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Mon, 21 December 2009 21:21
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: liquidv2 on Tue, 22 December 2009 00:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 11:11
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Tue, 22 December 2009 12:16
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 12:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Tue, 22 December 2009 12:52
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 14:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Tue, 22 December 2009 15:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 15:36
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Tue, 22 December 2009 15:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Ethenal on Tue, 22 December 2009 14:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Tue, 22 December 2009 15:20
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Tue, 22 December 2009 15:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Crimson on Tue, 22 December 2009 19:17
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 23:46
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Wed, 23 December 2009 00:12
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:43
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:03
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:09
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:30
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:15
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:18
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Wed, 23 December 2009 04:45
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Starbuzzz on Thu, 24 December 2009 11:48
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 12:18
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 24 December 2009 12:35
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 12:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 24 December 2009 13:23
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Tue, 22 December 2009 21:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: zeratul on Tue, 22 December 2009 21:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Tue, 22 December 2009 21:19
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Tue, 22 December 2009 23:39
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 24 December 2009 13:20
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Thu, 24 December 2009 14:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:10
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: CarrierII on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: EvilWhiteDragon on Fri, 25 December 2009 03:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 04:51
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Fri, 25 December 2009 05:47
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 15:41
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:20
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:52
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: HaTe on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:07
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:13
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 24 December 2009 16:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:10
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: JohnDoe on Fri, 25 December 2009 04:28
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 18:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Thu, 24 December 2009 20:50
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 25 December 2009 08:14
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Fri, 25 December 2009 08:27
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 25 December 2009 08:24
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: TD on Fri, 25 December 2009 08:34
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 25 December 2009 09:13
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: SPIKDUM on Fri, 25 December 2009 09:20
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: HaTe on Fri, 25 December 2009 09:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 10:39
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: SPIKDUM on Fri, 25 December 2009 11:22
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 11:35
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 11:45
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Goztow on Fri, 25 December 2009 09:32
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:25
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:29
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:33
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:37
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:31
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:33
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:38
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:44
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:46
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:50
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Spoony on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:53
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:54
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:55
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:57
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:58
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 13:59
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:01
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: resistor1 on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:03
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ChewML on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:04
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Herr Surth on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:06
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: ELiT3FLyR on Fri, 25 December 2009 14:13
		Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( By: Goztow on Fri, 25 December 2009 15:19

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