Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Dying Ren
Dying Ren [message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 06:29 ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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rrutk
Messages: 617 Registered: June 2007
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Dying Ren - suggest server merging
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From another topic concerning massive drop of playercount with the last 6 to 12 months.
Crimson wrote on Sat, 28 November 2009 11:55 |
NS is rarely empty. I graph how many players are in the server every 5 minutes, have for years now. We empty out 2-3 times a week, tops, and it's generally for an hour or two at most. Compared to a year ago, traffic is only very slightly lower, maybe 2-3 players average.
The faildus bullshit didn't really affect us at all, in any aspect you can measure.
Rather than trying to explain why our traffic levels are a bad measure, you should first investigate whether there is any truth to that allegation.
QED.
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quod erat demonstrandum?
no.
quod erat bullshit. sorry, have to say this.
This will be the very last topic within an Renegadeforum i will ever made.
And even some of u guys will say, the hell, who is interessted in this, u should. because im not the only person thinking in that way. I play for years now, made a ren mod by myself and especially i have to mention, that ren is the ONLY game im playing. so i would judge myself as a real and true renegade fan.
but i decided, if there will no be major changes within the server situation, i will uninstall renegade soon and choose another game instead of it.
and - again - is see a lot of other players thinking the same.
The reasons are quiet simple: massive drop of fun.
Why?
1)
Insufficient players. There are from my point of view only 3 "big" servers: jelly, noobstories and exodus.
Jelly is still full, yes, but there are extremly seldom people in teamspeak and without for me its not worth playing.
Only 12 months ago n00bstories was full (50 or more players) most of the prime times, i often had to ask for a temp slot. those times are gone, it seems to be forever. Now i consider a 25-30 player game as "full". and this is not the norm. Also on weekends there are so many times with around 15. Most of the regulars from the "old times" left. I guess, angel6 is the last one remaining. Im in nearly everyday, so i guess, I know what im talking about.
2)
The split n00nstories/exodus DID affect fun of gameplay in a way, that i would like to have it never happened.
Especially, because a lot of those, who forced the split, left the community short time after the incident.
Exodus is as empty as n00bstories every time i look in.
In Exodus teamspeak I see nearly nobody in.
I have the feeling, that nearly ALL old school regulars are gone out of the community.
And, like a lot of other people, i play renegade only because of the amazing combination between Team(gameplay) and the friends in teamspeak.
If there is either teamplay nor friends remaining, i will choose another game.
And to be honest, new games with fotorealistic graphics are much more attractive after all the years.
3)
Yes, i played on exodus for some months and I realy enjoyed the gameplay (never had so intense games, teamplay and fellowship like in this time), but as a saw all friends leaving, I changed back to n00bstories. but there seems to be the same situation now. Where are all the good and regular players? gone.
The new teamspeak scripting (bringing all teamspeak players into one team) is a desirable reaction on loss of players, but because people playing within shared home LAN having the same IP are due a bug finding theirselves alone in the opposite team for me and a lot of others it has a negative effect: loosing still more fun and interesst.
So, i have only some suggestions to deal with the situation:
a)
eradicate to teamspeak bug on noobstories - really all players within teamspeak should be on one team, unless the game/teamspeak is full. but as i mentioned above, this is seldom the case.
b)
merge the renegade servers again.
especially the reneagde-divisions of exodus and n00bstories should forget all those shit and merge again, otherwise in one year there wont be any need for having it, because the players are all gone with the wind.
if u look into xwis, there are countless empty servers.
shut them all down.
its quiet enough to have about 5 servers, but those full.
Thats it, folks.
And may be good by! It was a great time. But it seems to be, that all good things must come to an end.
PS:
Forgot, another reason:
4)
We are playing the same half dozen maps for years now.
Booooooring as hell!
Would rly like to play some maps by ACK or CP2 maps again.
But Im afraid, for me TT with the auto-downloader will be out to late.
[Updated on: Sat, 05 December 2009 10:10] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413198 is a reply to message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 06:57 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Goztow
Messages: 9734 Registered: March 2005 Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars) Goztoe |
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Maybe you just expect the wrong things. You sound like someone who won't join a game with less than 20 players. If everyone thinks like you, then of course servers will be empty.
I personally prefer games between 2v2 and 10v10. Anything more is unenjoyable to me. I manage to find these games, even on my own server, which is none of the 3 you mentioned.
After 7 years, one would expect a drop in player count. It's true that there are still too many public servers, I counted around 40-50 last time I checked but many of them offer different gaming styles. Bringing the number of servers back to 5 would be very bad for diversity, bringing it back to around 15 (= first WOL page, actually) could do the trick just fine. IMO if every community limited itself to 1 or 2 servers, we'd almost have achieved this goal. But at the moment this doesn't seem to be achievable.
At the end of the day, players WILL and already DO concentrate in a limited number of servers. The empty servers should draw their conclusions and I know a number of them already have.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413209 is a reply to message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 08:12 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
a000clown
Messages: 363 Registered: May 2005 Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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My server used to consistently have players at almost all times for about 7 months straight, usually 30-40 during the day(GMT-05:00).
Around August I noticed player counts dropping dramatically and by October we were getting around 10-20 for a few short hours and less than 10 the majority of the day.
It was no longer enjoyable for me so I shut the server down.
My server was heavily modded so merging wasn't really an option since I'd likely have to compromise the features that make the server what it is.
Right now I only play scheduled events that I know will have a lot of participants who know what teamwork is, such as the "ReneGame" (NE)Fobby(GEN) and the RenX team organize.
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413211 is a reply to message #413198] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 08:34 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
Cunin
Messages: 87 Registered: April 2007
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Most of the things you said, rrutk, are true for me, except the fact that we won't merge again with n00bstories, as I don't think that anyone from us or from them would like this.
The lack of players can be explained really easy imo, less (or none) new players because renegade looks every year worse compared to newer games (not that it matter for some people like me, but it does for the majority of players around the globe), and the older players getting bored of this game, that hasn't seen anything new in ages.
I'm one of those people who like 20+ players games, and I don't enjoy smaller ones that much (though I sometimes have fun with less players too), so I understand your feelings.
You're right about player count on the various servers, NS is rarely (if ever) full compared to just 1 year ago (and generally the player count decreases every year). Other servers have a better player count (usually), like Jelly or Atomix, but they also, like every other server, (almost)empty out quickly at certain times. That's a common problem on renegade since a few years.
If you load up Resurrection you can see how total player count (between all servers listed on GSA) fluctuates between about 130 to about 280/300, which is a very small player base.
There are only a few communities/servers which has players, and I'd like to see all those always empty servers to disappear too, even though I don't think it will help much as they are always empty anyway.
I really don't think that anyone can do anything to help renegade live longer, because it's not something one can control, games simply dies sooner or later.
TT won't work either, because it can't magically attract new players, and older ones will either don't like it, don't bother or like it, but I can't see how it can take back all of the old players into ren again.
One thing the remaining communities can surely (theoretically) do, and that's what you are suggesting I guess, is to help each other to have less but more populated servers, the problem is that I can't see how. There are a lot of communities which are friendly with each other, but that doesn't mean that they will decide to give away their players, and anyway how can you do it? The new merged server will need to have a new setup, which could be an average of the settings of the previous 2 (or more), and I think that their players will not appreciate, leading to an "exodus" to another server.
Maybe we can just decide to lower the max players of all servers to something better. 40 for example, that's the max that default maps can hold for enjoyable games imo, and that way the player count will be balanced between all servers.
I can't see this happening either, as no server owner wants to give away their players, even though it would be to help renegade.
So, to sum my thought, yes renegade is dying, but no, no one can, or want to, do anything about it.
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413212 is a reply to message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 09:47 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
Tiesto
Messages: 600 Registered: June 2006
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It won't happen. NS wouldn't have us back and we don't want to be associated with them.
It think alot of people have been too busy, like most of the exodus staff have like school, work amongst othet things..
For big games, just try and get involved in community wars.
For example, in Exodus we will be having inter-community wars every friday and sunday nights
Exodus Senior Moderator
For a commwar against Exodus, pm me.
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413219 is a reply to message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 11:05 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545 Registered: August 2007
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General (2 Stars) |
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While there are some valid points here, did you really have to make yet another topic that will inevitably devolve into an NS vs Exodus ragethread? We really don't need to revisit anymore of that bitterness and idiocy.
Renegade:
Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 | The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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[Updated on: Sat, 05 December 2009 11:05] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413222 is a reply to message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 11:12 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
TNaismith
Messages: 86 Registered: May 2006 Location: Canada
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Hello,
I'm here to speak on behalf of what I consider to be the Coop Community of Renegade. I'm formerly a community member from Renz0r-Gaming, which has merged with Exodus about 2-3 months ago. Also a member of [MC] Clan (Mission Coop Clan), my passion and interest in Renegade is playing on the Coop Servers. I don't play AOW, Marathon, or DeathMatch, and I find little reason to do so considering all the competitive egos, name-calling, insulting, and negative put-downs that happen many times between players.
As a Coop player, and member of [MC], I've had a lot of fun playing on the Exodus Coop Server as well as on the other Coop servers in the community. However, the merge with Exodus from Renz0r has already placed what small Coop Community there is into a delicate balance amidst all the other activity going on at Exodus. The last thing I want to see is another merge into another well known community that might bury the Coop Community among the masses of people who play AOW.
As for the server merging, I hope you didn't mean for the Coop Servers to merge as well. There are really only three major Coop Servers I know of; Exodus, MP-Gaming, and St0rm. Exodus' Coop Server is already under heavy modification activity by the Renz0r crew in the Exodus Community, more specifically by the clan-leader of [MC], Zorid. He alone has made significant updates to the Coop Server that has made the server a continued place to have fun. As of the merge from Renz0r to Exodus, I have never seen higher numbers of players on the Coop server than before either. From my perspective in the Coop side of the Renegade community -- things are very much alive here. The [MC] Clan has had several new members, the Coop server has seen an increase in players, and Exodus has a relatively new addition to the community in terms of forum members and activity. I know that Zorid is also working on some future projects that will be eventually installed onto the server, and I also know Zunnie from MP-Gaming is also working on new improvements for Coop.
The AOW community may be inactive to some of you, but that doesn't mean merging all the communities together will work. If Exodus merged again, I am almost confident that whatever foundations for a Coop Community there would collapse as well.
Maybe the Coop Community over at Exodus isn't a good reason to not merge, but still, I think we have just as much right to exist as any other Renegade community. Exodus is our home, and to see it merge again would cause a lot of problems for the Coop Community.
Also, I have to say that I think St0rm-Gaming deserves some say here as well. They may not want to merge, but I think their AOW server is quite popular on it's own, and their community is also strong. Maybe I'm wrong here too, but I think a lot of players continue coming back to play on the St0rm AOW servers all the time.
~ TNaismith
[MC] Clan Member
Resident Coop Gamer Enthusiast
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413224 is a reply to message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 11:28 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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ChewML
Messages: 918 Registered: June 2008
Karma: 0
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I don't expect TT to magically save Renegade, but it sure would be nice. The best thing for Renegade would be for EA to release another bundle package like TFD. I personally don't know how much TFD boosted Ren's population, but I know that is how I discovered it.
As for NS and Exodus merging, not a chance in hell. Anyone that tells you NS is doing so much better since the split, is either lying so they don't admit they fucked up, or is just plain retarded/blind. I don't care what graphs or charts they can pull out their ass.
I am also one who likes bigger games, so I niether play at NS or Exodus, I have been sticking to Jelly.
Now if there were going to be a merger I would recommend Exodus and Jelly, as they already have a lot of staff members in common, and together they would have the best player base, staff, and overall gameplay no questions asked imo.
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413229 is a reply to message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 13:25 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
FlaminGunz
Messages: 171 Registered: November 2007
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tbh from what little u see rrutk. i dont think you get the whole picture
Exodus is a smaller server in terms of player count, but alot of players like the small intense games offered. Its the way i like to play renegade, rather than have 20ppl a side all shooting around (most being noobs )
i like the way it is and wouldnt want to change tbh. it would be nice to have a few more players playing renegade but TT isnt gonna fix the impact of time. I love renegade as its timeless, however many people want to move on, it will always happen.
rr if you want an accurate picture of exodus, actually play some games in there and get on TS. There are several people that use TS regularly, me being one of them. All things considered i have not expereinced a better gameplay feel that with the friends at Exodus
so servers will not merge, it wont happen. and for you to call on a merge between 2 communities that have split, without even playing on one much is slightly naive.
Player count will not get better, we just have to manage with what we have and so far i am still liking it. altho if we could get a few more players that would be sweet
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413232 is a reply to message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 14:06 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Goztow
Messages: 9734 Registered: March 2005 Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars) Goztoe |
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Also note that communities merging but keeping all previous servers or even adding some is quite useless in the discussion you're trying to have here.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413244 is a reply to message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 16:25 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
Sccrscorer
Messages: 67 Registered: December 2006
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yea im not alone in saying smaller games ftfw. I like having more control over the team I am on and its difficult when you get 10 people running around with shotgunners. At least if its 2 people running around with shotgunners you can still kill buildings by yourself
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413248 is a reply to message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 16:57 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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luv2pb
Messages: 1488 Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) Not everything is as it appears Untouchable |
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rrutk, a number of your "facts" are very wrong. But considering you are not an official representative of any community nor part of the big picture I will ignore them. I also don't really feel like getting into another rrutk created bitch fest. I would ask that you not post "facts" about n00bstories until you can get them right though. I give you credit for the effort and the attmept at something constructive.
This is short and sweet really. N00bstories is doing better than ever. Jelly has no reason to work with us nor do we have a desire or would benefit from such a thing. They do their thing and we do our thing. Any time faildus wants to come back we would welcome most with open arms. There are no hard feelings - you were promised something you did not receive. We have already welcomed plenty back (yourself and xxlenore among them).
Unless Crimson wants to add something this is all N00bstories has to say on the matter.
N00bstories Director Of Operations
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413251 is a reply to message #413248] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 17:22 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429 Registered: February 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) ADMINISTRATOR |
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luv2pb wrote on Sat, 05 December 2009 16:57 | rrutk, a number of your "facts" are very wrong. But considering you are not an official representative of any community nor part of the big picture I will ignore them. I also don't really feel like getting into another rrutk created bitch fest. I would ask that you not post "facts" about n00bstories until you can get them right though. I give you credit for the effort and the attmept at something constructive.
This is short and sweet really. N00bstories is doing better than ever. Jelly has no reason to work with us nor do we have a desire or would benefit from such a thing. They do their thing and we do our thing. Any time faildus wants to come back we would welcome most with open arms. There are no hard feelings - you were promised something you did not receive. We have already welcomed plenty back (yourself and xxlenore among them).
Unless Crimson wants to add something this is all N00bstories has to say on the matter.
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As I said before, I have a script that logs the player counts on all servers connected to RenGuard every minute. I did not create numbers out of my ass, as you so eloquently put it. The average daily player counts are only 3-5 players less than the year before. It's a 7 year old game and there will be attrition, no matter how much you don't want it to happen.
As to the TeamSpeak bug, it's just a sequencing error on my part. I'll make it a priority to fix it this week.
And, as luv2pb said, we have already welcomed several former exodus members back with open arms and no hard feelings and we will continue to do so as long as they keep coming back.
I'm the bawss.
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413253 is a reply to message #413251] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 18:13 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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rrutk
Messages: 617 Registered: June 2007
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Crimson wrote on Sat, 05 December 2009 18:22 | As to the TeamSpeak bug, it's just a sequencing error on my part. I'll make it a priority to fix it this week.
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thx.
and for the playercount:
ok, today its rly full and enjoyable (except the TS bug).
a positive surprise.
but may be there is an difference between statistics and "felt playercount". one full game will mathematically raise up the average of a lot of empty games.
@luv2pb:
this is neither a new bitch fest nor I post wrong "facts" about n00bstories. All i posted are my personal observations from the last months. I was in daily, as u can see within the ladder details. May be i miss the times, where there server is full.
also the topic is about ren servers and playercount in general.
as others confirm a general player-loss, it seems to be that im not so wrong.
but nevermind.
those are right saying, that every game will die some day.
and there isnt a lot to do against it.
[Updated on: Sat, 05 December 2009 18:17] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Dying Ren [message #413258 is a reply to message #413190] |
Sat, 05 December 2009 19:25 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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luv2pb
Messages: 1488 Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) Not everything is as it appears Untouchable |
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Chew wrote on Sat, 05 December 2009 19:16 | Luv2pb has his opinion that NS has gotten better everyday, but that is not a fact. Many people feel that NS is not as good as it used to be. They lost nearly half their staff, and they have replaced some of them with questionable choices.
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Numbers are not fact? Since when? Though I do hold the opinion we are better than ever I have the numbers to back it up. Your observations are very flawed.
Just to be clear there would be no merger. We would simply take those who saw the error in their ways and wanted to be part of a solid community again back ... with a few exceptions.
This thread is going to break down into stupid fast - I'm out. kbai
PS Dover, though I appreciate your support please at least make an attempt to be constructive. Thank you.
N00bstories Director Of Operations
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