Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Who started WW1?
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411611 is a reply to message #411578] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 13:44   |
 |
RadioactiveHell
Messages: 175
Registered: August 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX
Karma: 0
|
Recruit |
|
|
| Dover wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 11:33 |
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 08:21 |
LOL, pan slavism was cover for Russia to invade. You can't just invade a country because you want more territory, that would have looked bad in the eyes of the Russian people as well as in the eyes of Europe. ...You dont think that Russia actually cared about Bulgaria, right?
|
If this were true, then either Russia would have kept the territory it captured, or a puppet government would have been installed. Neither happened, therefore you're full of shit. After all, If all Russia was after was more territory, why would they then give away all their hard-won earnings while expecting nothing but gratitude in return?
|
Wow, I thought you actually had some idea of what you were talking about until I read this.
...Russia didnt capture any territory because they were stopped by Austria and Britain before they reached Constantinople. Because of this, Russia didn't give in during the next crisis, over the assassination of Francis Ferdinand. As I mentioned before, after the assassination, it seemed that it was just going to be a small scale war between the Austrians and the Serbs, but Russia intervened, as Nicolas II felt he had given in too many times. Russia began mobilizing for war, without declaring war, and as a result Germany, in defense of its own national security and its ally Austria, began mobilizing for war as well.
| Dover wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 11:33 |
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 08:21 |
So again, the country most directly at blame for the outbreak of WWI is Russia.
|
You must be channeling the spirit of Reagan. That's the only explanation I can come up with that would make you hate Russia so much as to ignore blatant facts.
|
...So you are saying its a blatent fact that Russia would go to war w/ the Ottoman's to help out BULGARIA for nothing in return?
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
[Updated on: Fri, 20 November 2009 13:54] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411614 is a reply to message #411611] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 13:55 |
 |
Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:44 |
...Russia didnt capture any territory because they were stopped by Austria and Britain before they reached Istanbul.
|
You're either misreading my post or intentionally ignoring it. If this were the only reason to go to war, why not keep the terratory they won (Everything up until Istanbul)?
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:44 |
Because of this, Russia didn't give in during the next crisis, over the assassination of Francis Ferdinand. As I mentioned before, after the assassination, it seemed that it was just going to be a small scale war between the Austrians and the Serbs, but Russia intervened, as Nicolas II felt he had given in too many times. Russia began mobilizing for war, without declaring war, and as a result Germany, in defense of its own national security and its ally Austria, began mobilizing for war as well.
|
Mobilizing for war is not the same thing as starting a war. Don't confuse the two.
One might make a case that Serbia started the war since it was a Serb that assassinated Ferdinand. One might argue it was Austria for antagonizing Serbia in the first place. Most likely, one would say it was Germany since they were the first of the major participants to actually declare war on another and attack. However, one cannot blame Russia for starting the war on the basis that they prepared to have one (And rightly so, since they had war declared upon them soon afterward).
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:44 |
...So you are saying its a blatent fact that Russia would go to war w/ the Ottoman's to help out BULGARIA for nothing in return?
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
|
Tell me this then, Mr. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, what did they get in return?
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411623 is a reply to message #411303] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 14:43 |
|
Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
| JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 13:39 |
Pathetic. Is this what it's come to? You're throwing a party because of a typo on my behalf? 
I obviously meant Serbia, we're talking about slavic brotherhood excusing Russia's pivotal role in WW1, remember? Nobody gives a shit about Bulgaria, so stop name-dropping it in this thread just because you've made a silly argument - make a Bulgaria thread if you have to and perhaps I'll write a pity post. You realize the Czar clearly hadn't anticipated the extent of the war he had just started, right? Let's see if this dweeb manages to rewrite history in the same way he reshaped philosophy...
|
JohnDoe tries to save face, part 2.
How do you typo Serbia into Bulgaria? The "S" and the "B" are nowhere near each other on the keyboards. Nor are the "E" and "U", nor the "L" and "R". I suppose you expect me to believe it's a coincidence you typoed the word "Bulgaria" when the four preceeding posts mention Bulgaria not Serbia? Ditch the bullshit.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411627 is a reply to message #411623] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 14:57 |
 |
JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
| Dover wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 15:43 |
| JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 13:39 |
Pathetic. Is this what it's come to? You're throwing a party because of a typo on my behalf?
I obviously meant Serbia, we're talking about slavic brotherhood excusing Russia's pivotal role in WW1, remember? Nobody gives a shit about Bulgaria, so stop name-dropping it in this thread just because you've made a silly argument - make a Bulgaria thread if you have to and perhaps I'll write a pity post. You realize the Czar clearly hadn't anticipated the extent of the war he had just started, right? Let's see if this dweeb manages to rewrite history in the same way he reshaped philosophy...
|
JohnDoe tries to save face, part 2.
How do you typo Serbia into Bulgaria? The "S" and the "B" are nowhere near each other on the keyboards. Nor are the "E" and "U", nor the "L" and "R". I suppose you expect me to believe it's a coincidence you typoed the word "Bulgaria" when the four preceeding posts mention Bulgaria not Serbia? Ditch the bullshit.
|
Exactly, I typed the word Bulgaria because the four preceding posts mention Bulgaria, when we should be talking about Serbia. You're probably going to tell me that you've never mixed up people's names, right? Pathetic...you can't come up an intelligent argument, so you jerk off to typos instead. Sucks looking like a dweeb and not having the brains.
lol
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411629 is a reply to message #411627] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 15:01 |
|
Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
| JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 13:57 |
Exactly, I typed the word Bulgaria because the four preceding posts mention Bulgaria, when we should be talking about Serbia. You're probably going to tell me that you've never mixed up people's names, right? Pathetic...you can't come up an intelligent argument, so you jerk off to typos instead. Sucks looking like a dweeb and not having the brains.
|
Coninuing to attempt to save face. Appearances are that important to you, eh?
If you weren't talking about Bulgaria, then why write this:
Toggle Spoiler| JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 10:26 |
Seems like Fuzzy McDoublechin is pestering another thread with his ignorance. Last time it was philosophy, now it is history. This dummy actually believes the Russian Czar's gave a shit about fucking Bulgaria (lol) when all of a sudden he had the Ottoman Empire, Germany and Austro-Hungary fighting him abroad with the Bolsheviks attempting to topple him at home.
Why is this guy still posting? He should've realized by now that not a single person wants him around, let alone sticks up for him. SMH...this guy manages to combine bad looks, a shitty personality and poor intellect - archetype of a misfit.
|
in which you try to refute what I'm saying. That isn't consistent with you making an entirely different point about an entirely different country.
Just ditch the bullshit.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411636 is a reply to message #411614] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 15:18 |
|
RadioactiveHell
Messages: 175
Registered: August 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX
Karma: 0
|
Recruit |
|
|
| Dover wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:55 |
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:44 |
...Russia didnt capture any territory because they were stopped by Austria and Britain before they reached Istanbul.
|
You're either misreading my post or intentionally ignoring it. If this were the only reason to go to war, why not keep the terratory they won (Everything up until Istanbul)?
|
Because Russia did not want to be seen as aggressive in the eyes of Britain and Austria. Essentially, in a world where alliances meant everything, they wanted to avoid isolation.
| Dover wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:55 |
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:44 |
Because of this, Russia didn't give in during the next crisis, over the assassination of Francis Ferdinand. As I mentioned before, after the assassination, it seemed that it was just going to be a small scale war between the Austrians and the Serbs, but Russia intervened, as Nicolas II felt he had given in too many times. Russia began mobilizing for war, without declaring war, and as a result Germany, in defense of its own national security and its ally Austria, began mobilizing for war as well.
|
Mobilizing for war is not the same thing as starting a war. Don't confuse the two.
|
Uh, if I were Germany, I would be worried if the country next door, who I am not on great terms with, starts massing troops at my boarder.
| Dover wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:55 |
One might make a case that Serbia started the war since it was a Serb that assassinated Ferdinand. One might argue it was Austria for antagonizing Serbia in the first place. Most likely, one would say it was Germany since they were the first of the major participants to actually declare war on another and attack. However, one cannot blame Russia for starting the war on the basis that they prepared to have one (And rightly so, since they had war declared upon them soon afterward).
|
As I've said before, before the intervention of Russia, it seemed that it would be a small-scale war between Serbia and Austria. And yes, you can blame Russia for mobilizing for war before declaring it. Thats pretty stupid on their part, as they basically preempted Germany into declaring war.
| Dover wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:55 |
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:44 |
...So you are saying its a blatent fact that Russia would go to war w/ the Ottoman's to help out BULGARIA for nothing in return?
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
|
Tell me this then, Mr. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, what did they get in return?
|
We've been over this before. The Russian's wanted access to the Straits, and thats why they helped the Bulgarian's defeat the Turks. The only reason they wernt able to seize the Straits is because of the intervention of Britain and Austria.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411638 is a reply to message #411636] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 15:24 |
|
Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:18 |
Because Russia did not want to be seen as aggressive in the eyes of Britain and Austria. Essentially, in a world where alliances meant everything, they wanted to avoid isolation.
|
If that were the case, why launch the war without international support in the first place? It's one or the other. You can't have it both ways.
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:18 |
Uh, if I were Germany, I would be worried if the country next door, who I am not on great terms with, starts massing troops at my boarder.
|
And a proper response would be to mobilize as well and prepare for some kind of defensive action. An improper response would be to preemptively declare war and attack first, yet that's just what Germany did.
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:18 |
Thats pretty stupid on their part, as they basically preempted Germany into declaring war.
|
No they didn't. Nobody forced Germany's hand. They could have kept their troops on their side of the border in defense and everything would have been cool. You're just trying to find some kind of way to incriminate Russia because of some impotent rage you have toward the country.
| SoQRadio wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:18 |
We've been over this before. The Russian's wanted access to the Straits, and thats why they helped the Bulgarian's defeat the Turks. The only reason they wernt able to seize the Straits is because of the intervention of Britain and Austria.
|
You're saying what they WANTED to get. I'm asking what they DID get. The war was a success on Russia's part, and I find it hard to believe that the only thing that would keep them from accomplishing their goals is a foreseeable predictable political situation that they no doubt prepared for.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
|
[Updated on: Fri, 20 November 2009 15:25] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411692 is a reply to message #411629] |
Sat, 21 November 2009 02:18 |
|
JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
| Dover wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:01 |
| JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 13:57 |
Exactly, I typed the word Bulgaria because the four preceding posts mention Bulgaria, when we should be talking about Serbia. You're probably going to tell me that you've never mixed up people's names, right? Pathetic...you can't come up an intelligent argument, so you jerk off to typos instead. Sucks looking like a dweeb and not having the brains.
|
Coninuing to attempt to save face. Appearances are that important to you, eh?
If you weren't talking about Bulgaria, then why write this:
Toggle Spoiler| JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 10:26 |
Seems like Fuzzy McDoublechin is pestering another thread with his ignorance. Last time it was philosophy, now it is history. This dummy actually believes the Russian Czar's gave a shit about fucking Bulgaria (lol) when all of a sudden he had the Ottoman Empire, Germany and Austro-Hungary fighting him abroad with the Bolsheviks attempting to topple him at home.
Why is this guy still posting? He should've realized by now that not a single person wants him around, let alone sticks up for him. SMH...this guy manages to combine bad looks, a shitty personality and poor intellect - archetype of a misfit.
|
in which you try to refute what I'm saying. That isn't consistent with you making an entirely different point about an entirely different country.
Just ditch the bullshit.
|
Why write it? Just replace the word 'Bulgaria' with the word 'Serbia' and you get a coherent argument relevant to the WW1 discussion (unlike your excursus on Bulgaria). This is about as consistent as it gets, reminds me of how the only person dweeby enough to stick up for you on this forum is an inbred archer from Tennessee.
lol
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411696 is a reply to message #411692] |
Sat, 21 November 2009 02:48 |
|
Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 01:18 |
Why write it? Just replace the word 'Bulgaria' with the word 'Serbia' and you get a coherent argument relevant to the WW1 discussion (unlike your excursus on Bulgaria).
|
If this is what you meant to say, it begs the question of why you didn't say it back before I pointed out your failure? The bullshit, ditch it.
And I don't talk about Siberia because I'm not that familiar with Siberia. I am that familiar with Bulgaria, and how it's a perfect example of pan-Slavism--That's the issue I discuss when bringing Bulgaria up, proof that Russia isn't the greedy monster that McCarthyfags would like to have you believe. If you feel Serbia is a better example, than thanks for providing me with more proof for my point.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 01:18 |
This is about as consistent as it gets, reminds me of how the only person dweeby enough to stick up for you on this forum is an inbred archer from Tennessee.
|
It's unsurprising that the person with an obsession with appearances would see forums as some kind of popularity contest.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
|
[Updated on: Sat, 21 November 2009 02:52] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411704 is a reply to message #411696] |
Sat, 21 November 2009 06:29 |
|
JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
| Dover wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 03:48 |
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 01:18 |
Why write it? Just replace the word 'Bulgaria' with the word 'Serbia' and you get a coherent argument relevant to the WW1 discussion (unlike your excursus on Bulgaria).
|
If this is what you meant to say, it begs the question of why you didn't say it back before I pointed out your failure? The bullshit, ditch it.
And I don't talk about Siberia because I'm not that familiar with Siberia. I am that familiar with Bulgaria, and how it's a perfect example of pan-Slavism--That's the issue I discuss when bringing Bulgaria up, proof that Russia isn't the greedy monster that McCarthyfags would like to have you believe. If you feel Serbia is a better example, than thanks for providing me with more proof for my point.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 01:18 |
This is about as consistent as it gets, reminds me of how the only person dweeby enough to stick up for you on this forum is an inbred archer from Tennessee.
|
It's unsurprising that the person with an obsession with appearances would see forums as some kind of popularity contest.
|
Why would I notice a typo before the dweeb points it out? Yes, you've clearly got my elaborate ploy all figured out..  
McCarthy probably thought quite highly of the Czar, so that whole angle seems irrelevant - no need to name-drop Bulgaria any longer. Pan-Slavism really doesn't matter here, whether the Czar wanted to support his Slavic brothers or keep Austro-Hungary from taking that territory, he approved of the mobilization that triggered WW1. Realistically, those two and many other factors played a role, to assume anything else is causal oversimplification. Singling out Germany is laughable and shows a poor understanding of history - if one really feels the need to oversimplify the issue, then he should rather blame Russia and Austro-Hungary.
lol
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411706 is a reply to message #411704] |
Sat, 21 November 2009 07:12 |
|
Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 05:29 |
Why would I notice a typo before the dweeb points it out? Yes, you've clearly got my elaborate ploy all figured out..
|
It isn't a typo. If it was, you wouldn't have worded it in the way you would have. You're busted. Give it up. Ditch the bullshit.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 05:29 |
McCarthy probably thought quite highly of the Czar, so that whole angle seems irrelevant - no need to name-drop Bulgaria any longer. Pan-Slavism really doesn't matter here, whether the Czar wanted to support his Slavic brothers or keep Austro-Hungary from taking that territory, he approved of the mobilization that triggered WW1. Realistically, those two and many other factors played a role, to assume anything else is causal oversimplification. Singling out Germany is laughable and shows a poor understanding of history - if one really feels the need to oversimplify the issue, then he should rather blame Russia and Austro-Hungary.
|
You're basically proving my point for me. I haven't singled out Germany, if you bothered to read this:
Toggle Spoiler| Dover wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:55 |
One might make a case that Serbia started the war since it was a Serb that assassinated Ferdinand. One might argue it was Austria for antagonizing Serbia in the first place. Most likely, one would say it was Germany since they were the first of the major participants to actually declare war on another and attack. However, one cannot blame Russia for starting the war on the basis that they prepared to have one (And rightly so, since they had war declared upon them soon afterward).
|
, I list potential causes in the form of actions by three other countries as well. What kind of simplification is that? You're proving my point for me.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411707 is a reply to message #411706] |
Sat, 21 November 2009 07:52 |
|
JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
| Dover wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 08:12 |
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 05:29 |
Why would I notice a typo before the dweeb points it out? Yes, you've clearly got my elaborate ploy all figured out..
|
It isn't a typo. If it was, you wouldn't have worded it in the way you would have. You're busted. Give it up. Ditch the bullshit.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 05:29 |
McCarthy probably thought quite highly of the Czar, so that whole angle seems irrelevant - no need to name-drop Bulgaria any longer. Pan-Slavism really doesn't matter here, whether the Czar wanted to support his Slavic brothers or keep Austro-Hungary from taking that territory, he approved of the mobilization that triggered WW1. Realistically, those two and many other factors played a role, to assume anything else is causal oversimplification. Singling out Germany is laughable and shows a poor understanding of history - if one really feels the need to oversimplify the issue, then he should rather blame Russia and Austro-Hungary.
|
You're basically proving my point for me. I haven't singled out Germany, if you bothered to read this:
Toggle Spoiler| Dover wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:55 |
One might make a case that Serbia started the war since it was a Serb that assassinated Ferdinand. One might argue it was Austria for antagonizing Serbia in the first place. Most likely, one would say it was Germany since they were the first of the major participants to actually declare war on another and attack. However, one cannot blame Russia for starting the war on the basis that they prepared to have one (And rightly so, since they had war declared upon them soon afterward).
|
, I list potential causes in the form of actions by three other countries as well. What kind of simplification is that? You're proving my point for me.
|
How exactly did I word it? Like I said, just replace 'Bulgaria' with 'Serbia' and it makes perfect sense...hardly reason for you to stay up until 5 AM .
1. You're taking all the blame off Russia, which was the first great power to mobilize it's forces against another.
2. You're instead putting most of the blame on Germany for reacting to this mobilization with a formal declaration of war.
3. You're holding Yugoslavia (you're saying Serbia, but I can't be bothered to freak out on someone for mixing up country names) as a whole accountable because a Serb killed Franz Ferdinand.
Bottom line, your reasoning is almost as ignorant as declaring the field of inductive reasoning obsolete...
lol
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411711 is a reply to message #411707] |
Sat, 21 November 2009 08:39 |
|
Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 06:52 |
How exactly did I word it? Like I said, just replace 'Bulgaria' with 'Serbia' and it makes perfect sense...hardly reason for you to stay up until 5 AM .
|
Only it wouldn't have made perfect sense because nobody is talking about Serbia, and if you do nothing but replace "Bulgaria" with "Serbia, you look like some kind of weirdo faggot who's having a conversation with himself.
As for the 5 AM, I have an interesting sleep schedule. Your e-peen must be huge if you think it has anything to do with you.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 06:52 |
1. You're taking all the blame off Russia, which was the first great power to mobilize it's forces against another.
|
Not all the blame, but I do disagree with SoQRadio's assertion that Russia is most to blame. You and him both make the lazy intelectual mistake of confusing "Mobilize" with "Attack".
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 06:52 |
2. You're instead putting most of the blame on Germany for reacting to this mobilization with a formal declaration of war.
|
Yes. That elevates things. A formal declaration of war is far more aggressive than simply "mobilizing". For example, the US "mobilizes" against nations all the time, most recently in some clusterfuck with some North Korean ships or something. Yet you don't see any World Wars starting there yet, do you?
Beyond simply declaring war, they were also the first to attack and invade. From a purely military standpoint there's nothing wrong with that, and there's even some advantage to be had, but politically it doesn't look good, and earns you a majority blame.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 06:52 |
3. You're holding Yugoslavia (you're saying Serbia, but I can't be bothered to freak out on someone for mixing up country names) as a whole accountable because a Serb killed Franz Ferdinand.
|
Yeah. This happens all the time, like Afghanistan being held responsible for the 9/11 attacks, or the "nation" of Palestine being held responsible for the 1972 Munich massacre. This is the way blame for terrorist attacks (Like the assassination of Ferdinand) works.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411736 is a reply to message #411711] |
Sat, 21 November 2009 12:16 |
|
JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
| Dover wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 09:39 |
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 06:52 |
How exactly did I word it? Like I said, just replace 'Bulgaria' with 'Serbia' and it makes perfect sense...hardly reason for you to stay up until 5 AM .
|
Only it wouldn't have made perfect sense because nobody is talking about Serbia, and if you do nothing but replace "Bulgaria" with "Serbia, you look like some kind of weirdo faggot who's having a conversation with himself.
As for the 5 AM, I have an interesting sleep schedule. Your e-peen must be huge if you think it has anything to do with you.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 06:52 |
1. You're taking all the blame off Russia, which was the first great power to mobilize it's forces against another.
|
Not all the blame, but I do disagree with SoQRadio's assertion that Russia is most to blame. You and him both make the lazy intelectual mistake of confusing "Mobilize" with "Attack".
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 06:52 |
2. You're instead putting most of the blame on Germany for reacting to this mobilization with a formal declaration of war.
|
Yes. That elevates things. A formal declaration of war is far more aggressive than simply "mobilizing". For example, the US "mobilizes" against nations all the time, most recently in some clusterfuck with some North Korean ships or something. Yet you don't see any World Wars starting there yet, do you?
Beyond simply declaring war, they were also the first to attack and invade. From a purely military standpoint there's nothing wrong with that, and there's even some advantage to be had, but politically it doesn't look good, and earns you a majority blame.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 06:52 |
3. You're holding Yugoslavia (you're saying Serbia, but I can't be bothered to freak out on someone for mixing up country names) as a whole accountable because a Serb killed Franz Ferdinand.
|
Yeah. This happens all the time, like Afghanistan being held responsible for the 9/11 attacks, or the "nation" of Palestine being held responsible for the 1972 Munich massacre. This is the way blame for terrorist attacks (Like the assassination of Ferdinand) works.
|
I don't think I have to point out the irony of someone with you appearance and 'sleeping schedule' calling me a weirdo.
It seems you forgot how this argument started (a few posts before my now infamous typo made you flip out):
| SoQRadio wrote on Thu, 19 November 2009 17:23 |
Actually Russia was most directly responsible for WWI. Until Russia acted, it looked like it was going to be a small-scale war between the Austrians and the Serbs (over the assassination of Francis Ferdinand). Russia wanted control of the straits and didnt want to lose its influence in the Balkans, and acted in defense of the Serbs. Russia started mobilizing for war early, and thus forced Germany to declare war, for the sake of its own national security as well as for the sake of its ally, Austria.
|
You replied with an analogy of how Russia came to the rescue of another slavic nation (Bulgaria). This dummy actually forgot what he was arguing about...jeez
1&2 Lazy intellectual mistake, huh? That's rich coming from you, clearly not aware of the great powers being at the brink or war even before Franz Ferdinand was shot. Mobilizing meant that war was now inevitable, comparing this with a current scenario instead of looking at the historical context is exactly that, a lazy intellectual mistake.
3 The Taliban regime was actively supporting Al Queda, while Franz Ferdinand's assassin was a rogue freedom fighter, but that's besides the point - it doesn't matter who Austro-Hungary blamed when evaluating history. Hitler blamed Poland for attacking Germany first, so do you agree with that as well?
lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411752 is a reply to message #411736] |
Sat, 21 November 2009 14:20 |
|
Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
It seems you forgot how this argument started (a few posts before my now infamous typo made you flip out):
| SoQRadio wrote on Thu, 19 November 2009 17:23 |
Actually Russia was most directly responsible for WWI. Until Russia acted, it looked like it was going to be a small-scale war between the Austrians and the Serbs (over the assassination of Francis Ferdinand). Russia wanted control of the straits and didnt want to lose its influence in the Balkans, and acted in defense of the Serbs. Russia started mobilizing for war early, and thus forced Germany to declare war, for the sake of its own national security as well as for the sake of its ally, Austria.
|
You replied with an analogy of how Russia came to the rescue of another slavic nation (Bulgaria). This dummy actually forgot what he was arguing about...jeez
|
I remember perfectly, and the example I gave is perfectly valid. I still don't get what your problem with it is.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
clearly not aware of the great powers being at the brink or war even before Franz Ferdinand was shot.
|
You're making that same lazy intellectual mistake again. "At the brink of war" is not the same thing as "at war". That hallowed threshold was crossed by Germany.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
Mobilizing meant that war was now inevitable, comparing this with a current scenario instead of looking at the historical context is exactly that, a lazy intellectual mistake.
|
Bullshit. If you can mobilize without going to war in modern times (Especially in the age of weapons of mass destruction), then there's no reason not to be able to do so then. The will not to go to war simply wasn't there, and the great powers have nobody to blame for that but themselves.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
3 The Taliban regime was actively supporting Al Queda, while Franz Ferdinand's assassin was a rogue freedom fighter,
|
Incorrect. He was part of an organization calling itself the Black Hand (Which Westwood took for the Black Hand in the C&C series). There were five other would-be assassins along the same route Ferdinand was taking. That doesn't speak to your theory of a rouge freedom fighter.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
but that's besides the point - it doesn't matter who Austro-Hungary blamed when evaluating history.
|
I would say it matters more than some nerd on the internet blaming Russia.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
Hitler blamed Poland for attacking Germany first, so do you agree with that as well?
|
Godwin's law. Disucssion over.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Does loki cheat in clanwars/funwars? [message #411770 is a reply to message #411752] |
Sat, 21 November 2009 16:21 |
|
JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
| Dover wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 15:20 |
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
It seems you forgot how this argument started (a few posts before my now infamous typo made you flip out):
| SoQRadio wrote on Thu, 19 November 2009 17:23 |
Actually Russia was most directly responsible for WWI. Until Russia acted, it looked like it was going to be a small-scale war between the Austrians and the Serbs (over the assassination of Francis Ferdinand). Russia wanted control of the straits and didnt want to lose its influence in the Balkans, and acted in defense of the Serbs. Russia started mobilizing for war early, and thus forced Germany to declare war, for the sake of its own national security as well as for the sake of its ally, Austria.
|
You replied with an analogy of how Russia came to the rescue of another slavic nation (Bulgaria). This dummy actually forgot what he was arguing about...jeez
|
I remember perfectly, and the example I gave is perfectly valid. I still don't get what your problem with it is.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
clearly not aware of the great powers being at the brink or war even before Franz Ferdinand was shot.
|
You're making that same lazy intellectual mistake again. "At the brink of war" is not the same thing as "at war". That hallowed threshold was crossed by Germany.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
Mobilizing meant that war was now inevitable, comparing this with a current scenario instead of looking at the historical context is exactly that, a lazy intellectual mistake.
|
Bullshit. If you can mobilize without going to war in modern times (Especially in the age of weapons of mass destruction), then there's no reason not to be able to do so then. The will not to go to war simply wasn't there, and the great powers have nobody to blame for that but themselves.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
3 The Taliban regime was actively supporting Al Queda, while Franz Ferdinand's assassin was a rogue freedom fighter,
|
Incorrect. He was part of an organization calling itself the Black Hand (Which Westwood took for the Black Hand in the C&C series). There were five other would-be assassins along the same route Ferdinand was taking. That doesn't speak to your theory of a rouge freedom fighter.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
but that's besides the point - it doesn't matter who Austro-Hungary blamed when evaluating history.
|
I would say it matters more than some nerd on the internet blaming Russia.
| JohnDoe wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 11:16 |
Hitler blamed Poland for attacking Germany first, so do you agree with that as well?
|
Godwin's law. Disucssion over.
|
- I already explained why the analogy is irrelevant.
- You're rewriting history, just like you rewrote philosophy. The idiocy of invoking a universal law for the consequences of military mobilization should be apparent to anyone sporting a jawline.
- Rogue as in not in any form connected to the King of Serbia or his government.
- Saying 'Godwin's law' doesn't make your argument any less stupid. You'll reply, don't worry.
I'm posting at 5 AM and calling people nerds.
lol
|
|
|
|
| Re: Who started WW1? [message #411780 is a reply to message #411303] |
Sat, 21 November 2009 18:57 |
 |
R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars) |
|
|
My school taught WWII in great detail. Not so much WWI, however.
But, because of my lack of interest in either topic, I've totally lost all knowledge given to me in those lessons.
Also, I'm of a German heritage and I dislike Germany. I mean the name makes me feel sick. "Germ"any. :V
[Updated on: Sat, 21 November 2009 18:57] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Who started WW1? [message #411903 is a reply to message #411303] |
Sun, 22 November 2009 20:06 |
 |
Ryan3k
Messages: 363
Registered: September 2004
Location: USA
Karma: 0
|
Commander |
|
|
the only reason austria attacked is because germany gave them a blank check to act and guaranteed their support
you can really make an argument blaming anyone short of hitler for world war 1
A Path Beyond
|
|
|
|
| Re: Who started WW1? [message #411921 is a reply to message #411903] |
Mon, 23 November 2009 01:59 |
|
JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
| Ryan3k wrote on Sun, 22 November 2009 21:06 |
the only reason austria attacked is because germany gave them a blank check to act and guaranteed their support
you can really make an argument blaming anyone short of hitler for world war 1
|
Good point, but bullying Serbia was a regional issue - the fatal step that turned it into a World War was Russia's move on Germany.
lol
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Thu Nov 28 14:23:42 MST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01284 seconds
|
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
