Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » The Apparent End of C&C?
Re: The Apparent End of C&C? [message #411004 is a reply to message #410963] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 14:00 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Dover
Messages: 2547 Registered: March 2006 Location: Monterey, California
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General (2 Stars) |
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GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Mon, 16 November 2009 08:36 | you have to know 5835357 invisible rules which usually make no sense and unless you can react within 1/10ths of a second you're doomed to fail. This isn't to say it's bad either, but it gets tedious after a few games.
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It's fine if you think StarCraft isn't the best game ever, but posts like this show me that you either haven't played very much of it or are being intentionally misleading.
StarCraft is the RTS equivalent of Chess. The rules are actually stupidly simple, and there are very few "special" or "invisible" rules. It's from understanding these rules and their application on a deep level that make up skill differences. To use an analogy, both a Chess Grand Master and an average Chess player both know that pawns can start out moving two spaces instead of the usual one, but the Grand Master better understands the application. This is the hallmark of great strategy games--Simple rules, deep gameplay.
Of course quick reactions are plus, but you don't need to have superhuman micro to play (Although it's an obvious advantage, just like it would be in any game). Especially in low-level play where shit like Nukes and slow-ass units like BCs and Carriers are prevalent, you have more than enough time to react. Although I'll grant you that to some extent what you're talking about applies to Zerg vs Zerg match, if only because those games are typically over so very quickly that every unit and every small advantage matters tremendously.
DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 | Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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Re: The Apparent End of C&C? [message #411162 is a reply to message #410215] |
Tue, 17 November 2009 14:04 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Jerad2142
Messages: 3807 Registered: July 2006 Location: USA
Karma: 6
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General (3 Stars) |
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Dreganius wrote on Wed, 11 November 2009 04:10 | TIME FOR DREGANIUS' MASSIVE RANT ON C&C EVERYONE!
Make sure to get some popcorn from the lobby!
DREGGY RANT!The C&C series was amazing up until the day that Westwood was eradicated by those EA fiends. Their disgusting, mutilated FREAK replacements of C&C broke my heart, and although I played C&C3 and enjoyed it, as far as story goes NO game in the series beyond Westwood's era is worthy of the C&C title, for the storyline and general 'character' of GDI and Nod, and the Allies and Soviets in those games were magnificently perfect.
Here's what it was like for me. GDI was the UN elected defenders of the world against terrorism, etc. Nod was a rag-tag group, that through Kane, the fall of the Soviet Union, and the Tiberium anomaly, rose to great power and eventually gained technological advances that confused, and outmaneuvered GDI, however they lacked the massive arsenal GDI had and thus could not afford an all-out war. GDI seemed to continuously quell Nod, but Nod kept coming back with more, like stealth technologies, then lasers, and then things like cyborgs and aircraft developed from alien (Scrin) technology. GDI fought back, and advanced too, but in a typical military fashion (and the walkers were pretty cool too, and made some relevant sense).
That, in my heart, was C&C.
Then C&C3 came in to the picture. Everything seemed to rewind backwards a little and then fast-forward along a different line. I was heavily confused when Nod had Militia, for originally they equipped their soldiers with Pulse Rifles and armor, not machine guns. The cyborgs were completely taken out of the picture. Nod also completely lost their alien technology. Then came the suicide bombers. That completely ruined it for me. "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?" echoed throughout my neighborhood when I saw Suicide Bombers in my troops list. Wow, so Nod Infantry has gone back to its Soviet-Collapse days?
As for vehicles, they've gone back to C&C 95 days. The Attack Bike and Buggy is exactly the same as 95, and Nod's main battle tank can't burrow anymore, in fact it's just like the Light Tank, but, just like the Bike and Buggy, shinier. Oh at least they have a flame tank! Now, let's go underground again and ambush the enemy. What? No subterranean movement?! COME ON!
Oh, wow, now we have a Beam Tank and an Avatar mech! Cabal move over, there's a new mech in town. The Avatar mech was about the ONLY thing I liked for Nod. The Beam Cannon was just like a shitty Nod Artillery. Stealth Tank technology seems to be intact like in 95 and Tiberian Sun, but Nod's stealth technology was rendered obsolete by 2 facts.
1: Stealth Generators could never be stealthed themselves (Pointless much?)
2: So many units could now reveal stealthed units, (instead of one Sensor Relay that actually needed to be strategically placed to work with utmost efficiency) so now you could send 3 Pitbulls in with your rush of 10 Predators and call it a day. The fact that Nod harvesters were now invisible was a nice feature. Too bad Stealth technology was now completely fucked to obsolete shit.
GDI took several steps backwards too. They reverted to their walkers completely but for Juggernauts. Why? Surely the walkers were working fine beforehand otherwise they wouldn't be mass-produced in Tiberian Sun, so don't go for a "Prototype" argument. Secondly, EA slapped railguns on a heap of things, because they're so blue and shiny and go boom when you shoot them at things, which completely messes up the balance when Nod's infantry are now a load of pathetic civvies armed with uzi's and AK's (again) when you think about it realistically. Even the APC was nerfed (although they gave it a gun), it used to be amphibious! That made for some serious strategic strikes to work well. Since they replaced GDI's awesome walkers with shitty tanks, EA HAD to give them something new, something of an upgrade... Right..? Nope. Not a damn thing.
Then came the Scrin. They were just weird. I mean, I had no idea how the fuck to play them, but apparently everyone spammed ships and won.
Now, let's move to Red Alert. The reason I liked Red Alert is because it toyed with the timeline a bit, and asked what would happen if these Einstein wasn't dead, if Nikola Tesla sold his inventions to the Russian Military (Side note, Edison is a massive hipster faggot, as Dover would say, for stealing Tesla's inventions), etc etc. This slightly varied timeline was awesome. Then, again, EA flexed their massive fag-muscle and cocked everything up.
Red Alert 2 only received a slight dose from the fag-muscle. Psychic domination, weather machines, radiation launchers, etc. That stuff wasn't bad, although it was getting kinda iffy at that stage. And then, EA looked into Pandora's Underwear drawer and shit hit the mother-fucking fan.
"OK GUYZ LETS GIV RUSHENZ ATK BAERZ INSTED OF DOGZ LULZ! O AND DEN WE CAN GIEV BOTES TREDZ AND SHIT! OH OH OH LETS PUT JAPAN IN AS A RASE OV SUPATEKNOADVANSD PEEPL WIF SYKIK SKOOLGURLZ AND MEK-STUFF LIEK OFF GUNDEMZ N STUFF LOLOLOLOL!"
I rest my case. Apparently, EA even stated that RA3 was not to be taken as a serious game, and that it was a completely silly idea, aka "IDIFTL".
Is it just me, or is EA run by a bunch of 4Chan dicks and /b/ fags? It would make a LOT of sense if this were true.
For anyone with the balls to read that entire post, kudos to you. Have a Klondike bar.
EDIT: Keep in mind that this rant is my personal point of view.
Rant over, QFT.
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Spot on EXCEPT that you left out the tiberium growth aspect. CnC -> Tib sun -> Firestorm all showed tiberium mutating in a way that in each progressing game it became more diverse, created more interesting mutations, and had more interesting affects on the environment. Then CnC3 came along and took a shit on that idea. TIBERIUM GROWS FROM TREES?!!? WE THINK NOT, NOW IT COMES OUT OF CONVENIENTLY PLACED HOLES IN THE GROUND, WHY THE ENTIRE CRUST HASN'T CAVED IN WHO KNOWS. And don't forget that "weed" vanished off the face of the earth, as did any neat plant life or growth that firestorm introduced. Ion storms are gone as well for some reason. And suddenly Nod's interest in using tib as a weapon is gone. Also, if walkers were seen as a bad prototype was does nod jump all over the idea in cnc 3?
Ah well, as for EA shutting CnC down, I can't say I'm surprised, its EA. Although, its about flipping time they shut maxis down, their games have been heading down hill ever sense sim city 2004. Sims 3 seemed like a clone of sims 2 to me, although I only played it for like 4 seconds before I remember how much I disliked 2 and quit playing.
Visit Jerad's deer sweat shop
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Re: The Apparent End of C&C? [message #411593 is a reply to message #411581] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 11:55 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605 Registered: March 2006
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General (2 Stars) |
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Oblivion165 wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:22 | I think the only way to save C&C would to put it on the Company of Heroes Engine and let the Renegade (SAGE/RAGE) engine die. I hate the new Toon' look of the games since Red Alert 2 and the direction it's been taken ever since then.
Think how bad ass the next Red Alert would of been with realistic graphics on a modern engine. IE:
Now add Tesla Coils and your all set.
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I actually like C&C4's look. C&C3 was shit as I couldn't fucking tell what unit was what (they did the graphics horribly there... I don't mean they had low res textures or low poly models, I mean they hardly put effort into diversifying the units to make them easier to recognize). RA3 was, yeah, a little too cartoony sometimes, but it was still better than C&C3 IMO.
I actually find it kind of funny, 99% of the C&C community bitches and moans and complains about how gameplay takes priority over graphics... yet 99% bitch about how "OMG CARTOONY AND LAME" RA3 looks. What the fuck?
Toggle SpoilerScrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 | Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!
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Re: The Apparent End of C&C? [message #411598 is a reply to message #411585] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 13:06 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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The Party
Messages: 546 Registered: February 2009 Location: Chapel Hill, NC
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Colonel |
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JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:31 | Crysis looks better
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You have a lot of freedom in that game, you can pick what and where you want to go.
Also which piss-ant mod deleted my other post in this thread?
War is Peace.
Ignorance is Strength.
Freedom is Slavery.
[Updated on: Fri, 20 November 2009 13:07] Report message to a moderator
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Re: The Apparent End of C&C? [message #411599 is a reply to message #411593] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 13:09 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Dover
Messages: 2547 Registered: March 2006 Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 10:55 | I actually find it kind of funny, 99% of the C&C community bitches and moans and complains about how gameplay takes priority over graphics... yet 99% bitch about how "OMG CARTOONY AND LAME" RA3 looks. What the fuck?
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Why? The gameplay sucks too. If it wasn't for the C&C logo and vaguely related storyline, Everything after TS would be generic shovelware.
DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 | Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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Re: The Apparent End of C&C? [message #411620 is a reply to message #411599] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 14:37 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605 Registered: March 2006
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General (2 Stars) |
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Dover wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:09 |
GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 10:55 | I actually find it kind of funny, 99% of the C&C community bitches and moans and complains about how gameplay takes priority over graphics... yet 99% bitch about how "OMG CARTOONY AND LAME" RA3 looks. What the fuck?
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Why? The gameplay sucks too. If it wasn't for the C&C logo and vaguely related storyline, Everything after TS would be generic shovelware.
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It was a little more balanced than C&C3's crock of bullshit. Admittedly I haven't quite played it yet, maybe I need to, and maybe it really IS crap... but from what I can see, it seems like a lot of people don't like it BECAUSE it's actually fairly balanced and isn't a HURRRR I KILL U IN 5 SECONDS LOL EARLY GAME
Toggle SpoilerScrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 | Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!
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Re: The Apparent End of C&C? [message #411628 is a reply to message #411598] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 15:00 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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JohnDoe
Messages: 1416 Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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The G-Man wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:06 |
JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:31 | Crysis looks better
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You have a lot of freedom in that game, you can pick what and where you want to go.
Also which piss-ant mod deleted my other post in this thread?
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Crysis has powered suits and stuff.
lol
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Re: The Apparent End of C&C? [message #411645 is a reply to message #410160] |
Fri, 20 November 2009 15:47 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Goztow
Messages: 9735 Registered: March 2005 Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars) Goztoe |
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I played over 500 online games of C&C3 in the first 8 months of its release. The gameplay was good. The balance wasn't perfect but was sufficient. The games were quick, which was a good thing. Overall C&C3 ws a very OK C&C game in my critical mind.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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Re: The Apparent End of C&C? [message #411771 is a reply to message #411756] |
Sat, 21 November 2009 16:26 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) |
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JohnDoe
Messages: 1416 Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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The G-Man wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 16:10 |
JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:00 |
The G-Man wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:06 |
JohnDoe wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 12:31 | Crysis looks better
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You have a lot of freedom in that game, you can pick what and where you want to go.
Also which piss-ant mod deleted my other post in this thread?
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Crysis has powered suits and stuff.
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They are actually Nano Suits, gosh! Get it right.
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Does Marcellus Wallace look like a bitch?
lol
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