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SBH [message #406462] Sat, 10 October 2009 06:19 Go to next message
Poskov
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The stealth VS bots in Renegade needs to be adressed.
Base defences and bots are un-effected by stealth,
as in, you are always seen even if you are stealthed.

Most obvious when you are a SBH in multiplayer practice and encounter the AGT or GDI soldiers.
Re: SBH [message #406463 is a reply to message #406462] Sat, 10 October 2009 06:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nightma12 is currently offline  Nightma12
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well done at missing the point in the patch.
Re: SBH [message #406464 is a reply to message #406462] Sat, 10 October 2009 06:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Poskov
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Well, AI MP maps will be unbalanced towards GDI as their bots will alert players to the location of SBH, so yeah...

Plus in TD I don't remember AGT being able to see stealth tanks, and it makes stealth more useful against bases.

[Updated on: Sat, 10 October 2009 06:42]

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Re: SBH [message #406465 is a reply to message #406462] Sat, 10 October 2009 06:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nightma12 is currently offline  Nightma12
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AI shooting at cloaked SBH... i would agree with, but its not really a #1 priority

stealth avoiding the AGT would be overpowered
Re: SBH [message #406512 is a reply to message #406462] Sat, 10 October 2009 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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that would be horrible

liquidv2
Re: SBH [message #406518 is a reply to message #406462] Sat, 10 October 2009 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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I wouldn't mind a script that makes it so certain AI can't see stealthed characters until they unstealth or are at X distance (x being able to be specified by the unit that would be seeing the stealthed person).

AGT seeing stealth is fine though, if they couldn't, Nod would be terribly overpowered.


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Re: SBH [message #406548 is a reply to message #406462] Sun, 11 October 2009 02:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Poskov
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Well, there should be a script made then,
which if attached to SBH and the stealth tank,
would specify what distances defences and bots must be at, for them to be able to see stealthed units;
useful for people who make game packages etc.
Re: SBH [message #406630 is a reply to message #406462] Sun, 11 October 2009 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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Friggin forums, I had a post typed up that was pretty awesome, then it doesn't post it. Whatever, I'll re-write it sorta.

Anyway, how I think it should be done, is that the range at which bots could see stealth should be set on the bot character rather than creating a global value that the SBH sets. This way you can have more customization (I mean, something like this would only have use in mods anyway...), but still have everything be global if you really want.

Also, by default, AI would technically always be able to see SBH's. Adding this ideal script would actually limit their view rather than enabling them to always see them. It might be annoying to put the script on EVERY character you'd be using if you want this effect, but it'd be worth it.

But anyways, the distance they should be able to see the SBH's should be 75% or so of the global value that actually applies to players (set in LE). This value can be reduced or increased via a multiplier rather than set value.

The direction they should be able to see the SBH's in should be 90 degrees or 180 degrees in front of them. I'd say 90 degrees, though. This would bypass the field of vision stat set per character (which you can make 360 for AI, which allows them to have eyes in the back of their head...), so that the AI can seem a bit more "human like" I suppose. Maybe have that be able to be set, too, though (for things such as AGT and etc if you want to set it for that).

Honestly, if all that was done for a script to limit AI's visibility to stealth, I'd seriously make an entire Nod campaign.


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[Updated on: Sun, 11 October 2009 21:26]

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Re: SBH [message #406647 is a reply to message #406462] Mon, 12 October 2009 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Poskov
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Dude, that is way too complicated and too much work to do, (seriously, a script to every bot? Utterly ridiculous)
I'd go with my idea. Simpler and easier to do + less work.

Also, the degrees where the bot see the stealth should use the one the bot uses by default, and why does every bot need a script for each? What, does every bot have a different stealth sight range? Not really useful.

I got a better idea, there should be a global setting for the AI
with 3 fields. 1 for buildings, 1 for vehicles and 1 for infantry. Practical, useful and simple.

[Updated on: Mon, 12 October 2009 03:16]

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Re: SBH [message #406659 is a reply to message #406647] Mon, 12 October 2009 04:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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Poskov wrote on Mon, 12 October 2009 05:12

Dude, that is way too complicated and too much work to do, (seriously, a script to every bot? Utterly ridiculous)
I'd go with my idea. Simpler and easier to do + less work.

Also, the degrees where the bot see the stealth should use the one the bot uses by default, and why does every bot need a script for each? What, does every bot have a different stealth sight range? Not really useful.

I got a better idea, there should be a global setting for the AI
with 3 fields. 1 for buildings, 1 for vehicles and 1 for infantry. Practical, useful and simple.

Do you know how scripts like those usually work? You just attach it to each individual bot. Not saying one script for every ren character, but just a script that would apply to the bots and therefore would have to be attached to them.

Infact, if I'm not mistaken, it'd be easier to code it like this. Attaching a script to a character that applies to OTHER characters but only specific ones (bots) would make it overly difficult to code... and just plain silly considering you'd more than likely need to attach a "flag" script to the bots anyway if you don't want the script to apply to every single character.

Even if it wasn't easier, I'm pretty sure they'd be roughly the same difficulty to make. In which case, it's better to have the customizeable part and not the "flag script" on the bots rather than the SBH.


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Re: SBH [message #406704 is a reply to message #406462] Mon, 12 October 2009 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
StealthEye is currently offline  StealthEye
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I don't think TT will implement this. It don't see why it can't be done as a custom script in scripts.dll however, although you will need to understand C++.

BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
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Re: SBH [message #406735 is a reply to message #406462] Tue, 13 October 2009 03:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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If you're not going to implent it, then could TT make the script as a bonus for people to use?
Re: SBH [message #406771 is a reply to message #406462] Tue, 13 October 2009 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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they have far more important things they could be working on that would help more people than something that probably less than 1% of renegade players would ever use

liquidv2
Re: SBH [message #406772 is a reply to message #406771] Tue, 13 October 2009 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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liquidv2 wrote on Tue, 13 October 2009 18:01

they have far more important things they could be working on that would help more people than something that probably less than 1% of renegade players would ever use

Yeah, because when the map transfer feature comes out, no one would ever, EVER play modded maps. I mean, what kind of lameass community would EVER play a game that has a ton of modded maps? Clearly, that's for faggots. No game like that has EVER survived, nope.


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Re: SBH [message #406774 is a reply to message #406462] Tue, 13 October 2009 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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i'm unsure if this guy even plays online; he mentioned multiplayer practice

you're twisting what i said suit man; be honest


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Re: SBH [message #406779 is a reply to message #406774] Tue, 13 October 2009 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 14 October 2009 00:21

i'm unsure if this guy even plays online; he mentioned multiplayer practice

you're twisting what i said suit man; be honest


If my intentions were to twist what you said, I'd have changed the quote :V

But it wouldn't matter if it's for multiplayer practice or not- it could have some awesome uses for single player or co-op maps or bot maps in general. I guarantee you that if someone made a script for all that shit, atleast I would make a few maps making good use of it. With the map transfer stuff, fanmaps would be ALOT more popular anyway (atleast more than they are now), so yeah, it wouldn't just be 1% of the ren community, lol.


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Re: SBH [message #406780 is a reply to message #406735] Tue, 13 October 2009 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
StealthEye is currently offline  StealthEye
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Poskov wrote on Tue, 13 October 2009 12:14

If you're not going to implent it, then could TT make the script as a bonus for people to use?
Hm? A "bonus for people to use" would still need an implementation to be made, which I said we wouldn't do. Although something like this might be nice, we're focusing on more important features right now.


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Re: SBH [message #406781 is a reply to message #406780] Tue, 13 October 2009 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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StealthEye wrote on Tue, 13 October 2009 17:45

Poskov wrote on Tue, 13 October 2009 12:14

If you're not going to implent it, then could TT make the script as a bonus for people to use?
Hm? A "bonus for people to use" would still need an implementation to be made, which I said we wouldn't do. Although something like this might be nice, we're focusing on more important features right now.

Naturally. However, it's something to consider after the initial TT patch is released and all the major stuff is fixed, no?


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Re: SBH [message #406789 is a reply to message #406462] Tue, 13 October 2009 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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explain how you got to this based on what i said

Quote:

With the map transfer stuff, fanmaps would be ALOT more popular anyway (atleast more than they are now), so yeah, it wouldn't just be 1% of the ren community, lol.


i'm against using any and all mods or fanmaps because i think this one just so happens to be stupid...ok!1!!111

i personally can't wait for the automap downloader because mappack servers will be amazing with a decent number of players ingame

Big Ups


liquidv2
Re: SBH [message #406800 is a reply to message #406789] Tue, 13 October 2009 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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liquidv2 wrote on Tue, 13 October 2009 19:18

explain how you got to this based on what i said

Quote:

With the map transfer stuff, fanmaps would be ALOT more popular anyway (atleast more than they are now), so yeah, it wouldn't just be 1% of the ren community, lol.


i'm against using any and all mods or fanmaps because i think this one just so happens to be stupid...ok!1!!111

i personally can't wait for the automap downloader because mappack servers will be amazing with a decent number of players ingame

Big Ups


It would majorly affect modded maps and mods in general... therefore, with the auto map downloader, it would affect a hell of a lot more than just 1%.

I for one would like to see more fucking awesome co-ops.


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Re: SBH [message #406877 is a reply to message #406462] Wed, 14 October 2009 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ELiT3FLyR is currently offline  ELiT3FLyR
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yea, and i would like to see a patch within the next 4 years.

is it not possible to release the important stuff and then do a 2nd patch for stuff like this?
Re: SBH [message #406882 is a reply to message #406462] Wed, 14 October 2009 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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they have everything in the patch coded together or woven together in a way that it can only work as one (or something like that, based on what i understood from their explanation)

so they can't release the map downloader or the anticheats early because everything is stuck together; people suggested it a year ago and that's what they said then


liquidv2
Re: SBH [message #406904 is a reply to message #406877] Wed, 14 October 2009 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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ELiT3FLyR wrote on Wed, 14 October 2009 17:27

yea, and i would like to see a patch within the next 4 years.

is it not possible to release the important stuff and then do a 2nd patch for stuff like this?


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GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Tue, 13 October 2009 17:45


Naturally. However, it's something to consider after the initial TT patch is released and all the major stuff is fixed, no?


and to liquidv2, that's most likely because it would take more effort to separate those things than it would to simply finish the rest of the patch. However, a script would hardly be much of a problem to release afterwards...
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Re: SBH [message #406936 is a reply to message #406462] Thu, 15 October 2009 02:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Poskov
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Can we get back on topic?

I'm not sure what you mean by can't implent;

just asking for a script(s) and I don't see how that can't be done, no offense, but JFW made like a thousand JFW_ scripts alone in 3.4.4, so this should be added to that collection as a bonus...
Re: SBH [message #406945 is a reply to message #406462] Thu, 15 October 2009 04:17 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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Not "should", "could". It could be done in this patch, it can be done later aswell, but I'm not going to promise anything atm. Only thing I said is not to expect it to be part of TT's first release and it's too early to say what happens after that.

BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
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[Updated on: Thu, 15 October 2009 04:18]

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