Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » The Pointsfix and the Game Listings
| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406267 is a reply to message #406258] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 20:58   |
Roni
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| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 21:14 |
| Gr8mofo1 wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 20:54 |
I think we should start up the petition to remove Spoony from being the spokesperson from TT. I think we need to get EA involved in this. I will start some research and begin to contact some key personal at EA. I think the majority of people are truly tired at Spoony's attempt to try to be the voice of REnegade....
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So let's sum it up.
People complain about the pointsfix. TT goes to incredible lengths to accommodate differing opinions, and eventually gives them everything they want (but they still flame me at every opportunity).
People complain about Jelly's chokehold on the game listings (me certainly not being the first). The Jelly community says: fuck off, there's nothing you can do about it, and you should be punished for daring to criticise our monopoly.
(This is of course the second time Roni's set his mind on going crying to EA. The first time was because someone else had the power and he wanted to decide what should be done with it; the second time is because his camp had the power and someone dared to speak out against it)
I think the point has been well and truly made here. Jelly's made it plain he won't budge an inch. No need to involve EA and XWIS; the Renegade community can see the situation - and the Jelly community - for what it is. The difference between TT and Jelly could scarcely be proven more conclusively than has been proven here.
Thread locked?
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This is getting quite hilarious about now. You complain about going to EA initially because the peoples voices were not being heard about not wanting the point fix? That is your perogative and opinion but it got the ball rolling for TT to concede to give into a server side option. That is my opinion and perogative to do so.
Now you are complaining about a joke on the forum? You need to seek therapy. You have to have low self esteem! Get over your E-Drama. Take some time and get some fresh air. This is just a game.
Roni
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406268 is a reply to message #406266] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 21:06 |
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Spoony
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| PapaElbo wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 22:46 |
The only thing you have made clear is your true feelings towards the Jelly community and your anger at us for what appears to be refusing to apply the pointfix to our servers - rightly or wrongly, thats how it comes across.
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All that really needs to be done in rebuttal to this is to underline the word "wrongly", and perhaps put it in size 7 red letters too.
| PapaElbo wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 22:46 |
You must admit, you havent been at all open to discussion in this debate.
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Compared to the Jelly representatives, I actually think I have.
| PapaElbo wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 22:46 |
The only time you seemed to calm down a bit was when Jelly offerd to discuss giving you a nick for a pure server.
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Are you seriously under the impression he meant that? And even if he did, it fails to address what I was actually criticising.
| PapaElbo wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 22:46 |
The fact is, you have vehemently stated and restated your original post only evolving to include an actual threat to attack the Jelly community itself.
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!?!?
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 03:32 |
Also, what you're doing (all of you ANTIpointfix ppl) is separating the community. This could cause EA not to support this patch. That will mean that people that care will have TT patch, but all the newbies (who would probably better off with TT patch would be stuck in sucky servers without TT patch.
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Now in this thread....
| PapaElbo wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 22:46 |
I never did see any announcement from TT saying they had acquired approval from EA to patch renegade let alone manage the XWIS listings. So, which is it? Do TT have authority to apply a global patch to Renegade or is that still under negotiation?
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I infer from Crimson's posts that yes we do.
| PapaElbo wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 22:46 |
If you dont have any authority from EA then why do you feel the need to question Jelly's position in public and thereby assassinate the charater of our community by expressing your "opinions"?
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Nobody at Jelly has any permission from EA, and yet they treat me despicably, for absolutely no justification. Perhaps they're the ones you should be talking to?
| PapaElbo wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 22:46 |
Also, it was stated on this thread that the original polls on the pointsfix were split 50/50. As that is the sole source of evidence for a "world" opinion on the pointsfix, then i could claim just as clearly that the anti-pointfix group are not in the minority. The fact is, neither of us are correct due to lack of evidence.
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This is irrelevant anyway, but the number of people who've vehemently complained about the pointsfix are in a staggering minority. And yet I personally still think it's good to have it optional, even though many people on the anti-pointsfix side don't.
| kadoosh wrote |
I have a decent question for you spoony.
You know damn good and well whenever you post something on Jelly's forums you will be flamed. You stand for one of the things they hate, the point fix being the one I'm seeing more than anything else. Yet you continue to post there, or about them. Do you have the right to express an opinion? Hell yes and I will defend your right to this to the death.
The question is, Knowing this why do you subject yourself to it? Why do you intentionally walk into a place where you know your ideas are hated and try to express them?
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I've actually been asking the same question. I wonder: given the utterly contemptible way they've been treating me for months, despite the fact I've done absolutely nothing wrong, why do I keep looking out for their interests? Perhaps if the hand you're feeding keeps biting you you should stop feeding it, in which case I shouldn't look out for the interests of the anti-pointsfix crowd and make sure the pointsfix isn't compulsory for them.
But no. Getting the job done's important. I see the TT role much like I saw my clanwars admin post; you're absolutely guaranteed to draw flak from idiots, but no matter how pathetically they behave, you're still to do the job for everyone else's benefit.
| masterkna wrote |
is this not exactly what you are doing? deciding that someone else should not have something you don't have?
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11 pages on and there's still confusion over what I'm doing? I don't know how much clearer I can put it.
Someone must have this authority, and if someone does, it would be better in the hands of a group who are approved by EA and who are accountable to the community as a whole (we proved we are... Jelly representatives continually prove they do not consider themselves so)
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406269 is a reply to message #406267] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 21:12 |
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Spoony
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| Roni wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 22:58 |
This is getting quite hilarious about now. You complain about going to EA initially because the peoples voices were not being heard about not wanting the point fix? That is your perogative and opinion but it got the ball rolling for TT to concede to give into a server side option. That is my opinion and perogative to do so.
Now you are complaining about a joke on the forum? You need to seek therapy. You have to have low self esteem! Get over your E-Drama. Take some time and get some fresh air. This is just a game.
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Well, you say it's just a game, but judging by the extraordinary amount of vitriol displayed by most of the Jelly community right about now - including you - one wonders just how many people realise that. You only need to look objectively at Jelly forums right now to see that I'm almost the only sane person there.
Has it ever occurred to you that there isn't actually anything wrong with me disagreeing with you on something? I mean, if you and I hold differing views and if that means I am at fault (as most of Jelly certainly sees), doesn't it mean you are too?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Thu, 08 October 2009 21:17] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406271 is a reply to message #406269] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 21:17 |
Roni
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For Tireless Rebutter there is no such thing as a trivial dispute. He regards all challenges as barbarians at the gates. His unflagging tenacity in making his points numbs and eventually wears down the opposition. Confident that his arguments are sound, Tireless Rebutter can't understand why he is universally loathed.
[Updated on: Thu, 08 October 2009 21:24] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406272 is a reply to message #406271] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 21:22 |
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Spoony
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By the way, a thought's just occurred to me. I should've argued my case in the same way the anti-pointsfix crowd argued theirs.
"i don't think jelly should have all the top names"
jelly: "why?"
"i don't have to tell you. it's very rude of you to ask. you should respect my opinion, and no amount of contradictory evidence or logic can change it"
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406274 is a reply to message #406273] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 21:30 |
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Spoony
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I didn't say that was the case... just put forth the argument that this authority is better managed by a group that has actually earned EA's blessing on something important to Renegade AND has already proven a high level of accountability, instead of a community who by their own admissions doesn't consider themselves accountable to anyone, and reacts violently to criticism.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406276 is a reply to message #406268] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 22:25 |
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papaelbo
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| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 23:06 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 22:46 |
The fact is, you have vehemently stated and restated your original post only evolving to include an actual threat to attack the Jelly community itself.
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!?!?
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This means you havent even considered you are wrong (or at least, it doesnt look like it!). Your responses are reply and repeat, reply and repeat.
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 23:06 |
Nobody at Jelly has any permission from EA, and yet they treat me despicably, for absolutely no justification. Perhaps they're the ones you should be talking to?
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You dont do yourself any favours by having random debates on our forums about clanwars issues or the pointsfix (or both at the same time!). You know most people at Jelly have no interest in discussing clanwars or the pointfix but i assume you cant resist. Simply leaving those issues alone would have seen you right - you are a good player and from what i hear, a good mod too who was very much appreciated - but you keep stirring about pointsfix and people have grown tired of it.
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 23:06 |
And yet I personally still think it's good to have it optional, even though many people on the anti-pointsfix side don't.
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Reply and repeat.
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 23:06 |
Someone must have this authority, and if someone does, it would be better in the hands of a group who are approved by EA and who are accountable to the community as a whole (we proved we are... Jelly representatives continually prove they do not consider themselves so)
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Again, what authority? You are making it up in your head. Its not a gentlemans club. Jelly was there first to register those nicks and thats all. The fact he allows other communities access to those nicks over others does not constitute Jelly claiming an authority.
EA and XWIS have not had a problem with this and Jelly didnt need to prove anything to you or anyone else in this thread. I think at the end of the day, thats the point we are all trying to make.
You have no authority to question or even suggest in any official capacity that Jelly should have his nicks removed. I would guess you have the knowlege on how to go about it. Although threatening to do so is disrespectful to our community and the hard work the people there have put into those servers and the community over the years.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406281 is a reply to message #405549] |
Thu, 08 October 2009 23:30 |
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Goztow
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It's a pity that due to all the replies from and to spoony, noone took time to read and reply to my posts  . I only made like 5 or so in this whole topic.
Kudos to Raven for having this discussion with us in a civilized manner, BTW.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Thu, 08 October 2009 23:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406288 is a reply to message #406273] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 02:24 |
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Crimson
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| Ethenal wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 21:28 |
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 23:06 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 22:46 |
I never did see any announcement from TT saying they had acquired approval from EA to patch renegade let alone manage the XWIS listings. So, which is it? Do TT have authority to apply a global patch to Renegade or is that still under negotiation?
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I infer from Crimson's posts that yes we do.
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I do believe you're correct that TT has permission to patch Renegade... but do they have permission to manage the XWIS listings? Um, no.
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Actually, BHS has the authority to manage Renegade on XWIS and has had it ever since WOL was shut down. Olaf has made it clear several times that BHS (now TT) decides policy, so long as it's not conflicting with their own rules and of course, the safety and security of their servers.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406300 is a reply to message #406276] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 05:50 |
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Spoony
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| Ethenal wrote |
Except that's not what you said at all, you said that you "inferred from Crimson's posts" that TT has both permission to patch Renegade AND to manage the XWIS listings.
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No, I just said the patching. This is the question I was answering at the time:
"Do TT have authority to apply a global patch to Renegade or is that still under negotiation?"
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 00:25 |
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 23:06 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 22:46 |
The fact is, you have vehemently stated and restated your original post only evolving to include an actual threat to attack the Jelly community itself.
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!?!?
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This means you havent even considered you are wrong (or at least, it doesnt look like it!). Your responses are reply and repeat, reply and repeat.
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wtf lol... first you say: you're threatening to attack the jelly community. I reply in the most appropriate way, a simple expression of astonished disbelief - and you say "you haven't even considered you were wrong"?
try thinking in a straight line, perhaps?
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 00:25 |
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 23:06 |
Nobody at Jelly has any permission from EA, and yet they treat me despicably, for absolutely no justification. Perhaps they're the ones you should be talking to?
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You dont do yourself any favours by having random debates on our forums about clanwars issues or the pointsfix (or both at the same time!). You know most people at Jelly have no interest in discussing clanwars or the pointfix but i assume you cant resist. Simply leaving those issues alone would have seen you right - you are a good player and from what i hear, a good mod too who was very much appreciated - but you keep stirring about pointsfix and people have grown tired of it.
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So you don't deny that the way the Jelly community has been treating me for months IS indeed despicable, but like raven and tellsson before you (both of whom originally denied this) you say: but it's justified.
You cite two "crimes": 1. me talking about the pointsfix. 2. me talking about "clanwars issues".
well, neither of these actually puts me at fault. starting with the pointsfix. the very most i've ever done on the jelly forums is say why i think it's a good idea, making my reasons very clear. that's all. it was never my decision whether to actually use the pointsfix on the jelly servers. back when jelly was a better man than he is now, he actually tried to convince everyone of that point.... "there's no point flaming spoony all the time, it's not his choice, it's mine". but oh no, i LIKE the pointsfix, which is a terrible crime?
2. clanwars issues. are you really sure you want to mention this, considering how damaging it is to the jelly community? for people who aren't familiar with what happened: i posted a thread on jelly talking about some of my ideas for the public-server ladder.
it was heavily criticised by a jelly moderator, Clearshot (who is a fairly long-time player on the clanwars league). he said: nobody should bother with this ladder because spoony is extremely corrupt, he did all these horrible abuses of power when he ran the clanwars league and he'll do the same with this one.
he gave a great many examples, such as:
"spoony, as admin, let his clanmate Soul get away with pointpushing"
"spoony later let his clanwate whiskey get away with pointpushing"
"spoony suspended me (i.e. clearshot) for something he wasn't even involved with"
"spoony punished clans for offences that weren't even against the rules at the time"
and so on and so on. he made about a dozen of these accusations. they all had one thing in common: they were completely made up. not only that, but they were depressingly easy to disprove. for example, most of his accusations of me abusing admin power refer to periods in clanwars history before i even became the admin at all.
anyone with a brain could see clearshot was lying through his teeth... i even asked jelly himself to point out that i was telling the truth. he wouldn't. why, i wonder? let's allow a jelly moderator to lie to the community again and again and again just to make the new ladder look bad, because if anyone tells the truth it might paint spoony in a positive light, and we can't have that.
but hey, according to you, I'm "doing myself no favours" by defending myself against these ridiculous lies?
this may be a good time to repeat the question i asked before. so far only raven's had the balls to answer it. isn't it very interesting that i am treated with astonishing public levels of contempt on the jelly forums, whereas i haven't seen a single public post flaming - for example - msgtpain? but then, prulez said it best: you complain about the things you care about, don't you...
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 00:25 |
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 23:06 |
And yet I personally still think it's good to have it optional, even though many people on the anti-pointsfix side don't.
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Reply and repeat.
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this thing really does need repeating! clearly nobody can grasp the solid fact that if you wanna use the pointsfix in your own community, i don't care. really, i don't. but many people in the jelly community have proven they DON'T want me to choose to use the pointsfix in mine.
this really is an extraordinary fact that completely cripples the credibility of everybody involved; why do you think roni found it so embarrassing that he immediately changed the subject?
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 00:25 |
Jelly didnt need to prove anything to you or anyone else in this thread. I think at the end of the day, thats the point we are all trying to make.
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yes, it is, isn't it? the best argument you've come up with is "we don't have to explain ourselves to anyone". which is, of course, the problem to begin with...
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Fri, 09 October 2009 05:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406303 is a reply to message #405549] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 05:56 |
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Herr Surth
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this is pointless talk to jelly privately this is pointless talk to jelly privately this is pointless talk to jelly privately this is pointless talk to jelly privately this is pointless talk to jelly privately this is pointless talk to jelly privately this is pointless talk to jelly privately talk to him in a more emotional and less logical way talk to him in a more emotional and less logical way talk to him in a more emotional and less logical way
[Updated on: Fri, 09 October 2009 05:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406313 is a reply to message #406300] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 07:40 |
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papaelbo
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Ah ha ha! I got the Spoony treatment. Please, i was awake at 4am for that post. But in any case:
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
try thinking in a straight line, perhaps?
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Perhaps i would keep a straight line of thought if you didnt keep referring to random incidents that happened years ago, linking seemingly unrelated issues and drawing your own conclusions which attack the good standing and character of the community which i am a part of.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
So you don't deny that the way the Jelly community has been treating me for months IS indeed despicable.....
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I wasnt aware i needed to deny it. You have more than enough people responding to you about this.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
you say: but it's justified.
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I said you bring it on yourself becasue you know the attitudes of most people at Jelly. I didnt say it was justified. This is another problem of yours Spoony. You twist words and invent these stories and present them as fact. Then use them over and over.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
well, neither of these actually puts me at fault.
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Of course! You are never at fault. This is what i meant about whether you ever considered the fact you are wrong. Also, your diatribe was reply and repeat. All been said before 100 times over and really not necessary. I barely know Clearshot and have never been part of a clan but i still know about this drama becasue you repeat it ad'nauseam every chance you get.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
isn't it very interesting that i am treated with astonishing public levels of contempt on the jelly forums, whereas i haven't seen a single public post flaming - for example - msgtpain?
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Who is treating you with contempt and why is the level astonishing? I am responding calmly and respectfully to your posts. What you are saying here when you break it all down is that you would rather the Jelly community flame and show astonishing levels of contempt to mgstpain. I suppose we all love a good roasting, as long as we are not the ones taking it.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
clearly nobody can grasp the solid fact that if you wanna use the pointsfix in your own community, i don't care. really, i don't.
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I think everyone has got it by now. It was Jonwil that got it wrong which caused the confusion which was quickly rectified. Thats all.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
but many people in the jelly community have proven they DON'T want me to choose to use the pointsfix in mine.
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I dont think i have seen anyone trying to stop you using the pointsfix in your server. Unless you mean clanwars again and in which case, that was a community decision. I personally couldnt care less what you decide to do in your servers. I only care about your threats to steal Jelly's server nicks for your own purposes and the bad mouthing of my community on these forums.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
the best argument you've come up with is "we don't have to explain ourselves to anyone". which is, of course, the problem to begin with...
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How about.....there is no crime that Jelly has to answer for. No proof or evidence against him other than opinion and hearsay. And, there is no established authority for Jelly to answer to.
The only thing thats gives this thread any credence in my view is your membership of TT. Crimson says that TT have control of XWIS so in effect, you could go ahead an do it right now anyway. So, why dont you?
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406314 is a reply to message #406307] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 07:47 |
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Spoony
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| Blue169 wrote |
Spoony you talk about Jelly being "undeserving" of the nicknames who do you honestly think actually deserves them? You? Crimson?
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TT.
Again, compare TT to Jelly.
People criticise TT about the pointsfix; TT goes to incredible lengths to debate the subject, suggests all sorts of compromises, and eventually just gives the community everything they want.
People criticise Jelly about their monopoly on the a00 names: everyone from jelly says "fuck off, there's nothing you can do about it, we don't have to explain ourselves to you"
^^ that really tells you all you need to know.
one group has EA and XWIS's blessing to manage renegade affairs, and has already proven its approachability, reasonableness, willingness to compromise, and willingness to accommodate differing opinions within the community. the other group seized the power and continually proves they don't consider themselves answerable to anybody, and reacts violently to any criticism at all.
| Blue169 wrote |
Seriously though, why should it matter that Jelly has a big playerbase isn't that the point of hosting a server...? To actually get players joining it?
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if you want to refute my statements, go ahead. but please only refute things i've actually said, eh?
| Blue169 wrote |
Now you come to the Jelly forums basically demonizing us all and then bitch about how we don't agree with you is there something about with that sentence?
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Yes, there is something wrong with that sentence; it's completely upside down. I didn't demonise anybody; the jelly community demonised me simply for expressing an opinion about the chokehold they have on the game listings. I've been treated appallingly by the Jelly community long before now, for nothing worse than having a different opinion.
| Blue169 wrote |
Chances are by now you are thinking to yourself, "Who the fuck is this n00b? Why is he telling me off? He doesn't know me!"
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No, but I am thinking you don't know the situation.
| Blue169 wrote |
If It's consolation I've read many of your posts, topics or whatever on both forums and I just see that you live for trying to win Arguments and you always attempt to dig up dirt on people at an attempt to Invalidate what they think.
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Then you haven't read them very carefully. Go look at Jelly; the community is absolutely full of people who just live to flame the hell out of me, despite the fact they have absolutely nothing to be upset at me for. I, on the other hand, just debate the actual issues relating to Renegade.
| Blue169 wrote |
Anyways, you're certainly right Jelly has a monopoly there is no denying that but they run a good server and deserve any and all of the players that join their servers and help support it.
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You can talk all you like about how great the Jelly servers are; it simply doesn't answer the question.
| Blue169 wrote |
But what really pisses me off is that after all this, you still try to degrade all the work they have done just because of a few lousy nicknames.
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Then what's your opinion of the Jelly community continually lying about my track record at Clanwars to try to make me look bad, and the rest of the jelly community letting them get away with it (and demonising me for successfully defending myself?) The only reason they tried doing that is because they desperately wanted to argue against the pointsfix on the ladder and this is the best they could do. What's your two cents on that?
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406319 is a reply to message #406313] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 08:05 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
try thinking in a straight line, perhaps?
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Perhaps i would keep a straight line of thought if
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You can tell a sentence is gonna be bullshit when this is how it starts.
"OK, I was talking complete bollocks, but it's your fault because..."
But still, let's examine your reasons.
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
you didnt keep referring to random incidents that happened years ago
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Specifically?
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
drawing your own conclusions which attack the good standing and character of the community which i am a part of.
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Specifically?
Besides, plenty of the Jelly community do this to me all the time, they've done it several times in this thread, and they usually get caught lying in the attempt. You don't seem to mind that.
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
you say: but it's justified.
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I said you bring it on yourself becasue you know the attitudes of most people at Jelly. I didnt say it was justified. This is another problem of yours Spoony. You twist words and invent these stories and present them as fact. Then use them over and over.
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Oh, so you admit it's NOT justified then?
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
well, neither of these actually puts me at fault.
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Of course! You are never at fault. This is what i meant about whether you ever considered the fact you are wrong.
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What an absurdly hypocritical contradiction.
You give two reasons why I should be treated with contempt by the Jelly community - I point out that neither of these actually constitutes me doing something wrong, and your reply is "OH YEAH YOUR NEVER WRONG ARE YOU?!?"
Speak for yourself.
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
I barely know Clearshot and have never been part of a clan but i still know about this drama becasue you repeat it ad'nauseam every chance you get.
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Ah, so the problem ISN'T that a jelly moderator lied to the community again and again and again to make me look bad, and the rest of the community let him get away with it (in some cases actually lying to help him get away with it)... the problem is I caught him redhanded and pointing out how utterly pathetic it was?
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
Who is treating you with contempt and why is the level astonishing?
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Are you blind?
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
What you are saying here when you break it all down is that you would rather the Jelly community flame and show astonishing levels of contempt to mgstpain. I suppose we all love a good roasting, as long as we are not the ones taking it.
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No, I didn't say I would particularly enjoy a lynch-mob aimed at msgtpain.
I said I'm rather surprised at the Jelly community's apparently total indifference to a moderator cheating while being a moderator, and continually lying to everyone to cover himself while doing so. But when they see someone with different opinions on the pointsfix, or someone daring to speak out about their control of the gamelistings, grab a stick and get in line, eh?
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
clearly nobody can grasp the solid fact that if you wanna use the pointsfix in your own community, i don't care. really, i don't.
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I think everyone has got it by now.
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That's not the impression I get.
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
but many people in the jelly community have proven they DON'T want me to choose to use the pointsfix in mine.
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I dont think i have seen anyone trying to stop you using the pointsfix in your server. Unless you mean clanwars again and in which case, that was a community decision.
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Read what I said to Roni. He couldn't think of a response and was too humiliated to try... see if you can do better.
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
I personally couldnt care less what you decide to do in your servers. I only care about your threats to steal Jelly's server nicks for your own purposes and the bad mouthing of my community on these forums.
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I personally couldn't care less about how Jelly servers are run, or even how the forums were run (it really doesn't bother me that the community's full of bullies who treat people like shit when you've done nothing wrong to them). I only care about their strangehold on the game listings and their fanatical inability to even maturely debate the issue at all.
Still...
"I only care about your threats to steal Jelly's server nicks for your own purposes"
Untrue.
"and the bad mouthing of my community on these forums"
Not only untrue but grossly hypocritical.
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
How about.....there is no crime that Jelly has to answer for.
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I didn't suggest that there was. I was criticising all the power his community has and suggested it would be better in more responsible hands. That's all. They've tried to sidestep this completely legitimate opinion in essentially two ways:
1. "you should have talked about this privately"
2. "you're only doing this because we took the pointsfix off"
point 1 is merely ridiculous, point 2 is downright insulting. and, of course, it contradicts all the facts.
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
And, there is no established authority for Jelly to answer to.
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There's TT... but more to the point, there's the community.
TT considers itself answerable to the community. We proved that with the pointsfix. Jelly has made no secret at all of the fact they DON'T consider themselves answerable to the community.
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
Crimson says that TT have control of XWIS so in effect, you could go ahead an do it right now anyway. So, why dont you?
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Precisely because we're better than the Jelly community.
I, personally, am quite satisfied with this thread's outcome. If anybody was in any doubt that the Jelly community is completely unqualified to manage this responsibility, they only need to look at this thread. They can then look at TT's track record, which is far superior in every conceivable sense.
You say I'm attacking jelly here? Don't need to, it's done a very good job of attacking itself.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406323 is a reply to message #405549] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 08:15 |
masterkna
Messages: 69
Registered: October 2008
Location: The Abyss, NY
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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the fact that you think your judgment is better than anyone elses
and believe you have any right to say that the owner of the nick names isn't responsible enough to own them is what scares me
 | GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 |
Then again, banning anyone for anything automatically makes you a biased prick who shouldn't be a moderator.
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lol
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406324 is a reply to message #406323] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 08:20 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| masterkna wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 17:15 |
the fact that you think your judgment is better than anyone elses
and believe you have any right to say that the owner of the nick names isn't responsible enough to own them is what scares me
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The owner of the nicknames is eventually xwis. At best, Jelly is leasing the nicknames.
And if he thought that Jelly and nightma were doing a great job with the nicknames and that noone else could have a better judgement than them, then he simply wouldn't post, would he? I'm not sure what's so surprising about that in the first place...
I'm sure that if TT hypothetically would get usage of these nicknames, there would be some sort of committee to decide what happens with them. Spoony might or might not be a small part of this committee. Saying spoony wants to steal the nicknames from jelly because he thinks he personally has better judgement is a false image.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406325 is a reply to message #406324] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 08:26 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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actually since you ask, yes I do think I have better judgement than the jelly community (i CERTAINLY think TT as a whole does), but that's not the point. the point is more to do with accountability. if TT did take officially take on this responsibility, we'd run it with the same approachability and transparency that we managed the pointsfix debate, for example. by contrast, many people from the jelly community including jelly himself have basically just said: we don't have to explain ourselves to anyone.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406326 is a reply to message #405549] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 08:26 |
masterkna
Messages: 69
Registered: October 2008
Location: The Abyss, NY
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thats not what i was getting at. spoony calls him out on it because he doesnt think his judgment is good enough to hold power over those nicknames. yeah they are at the top of the listing, but does that really matter anymore? most people join a server because they like the settings, trial and error. there aren't that many new people coming to renegade anymore, so most servers have their regulars plus a new face here or there looking for a change. in my personal belief, you register a name, its yours, xwis only owns their server that the name logs into.
| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 |
Then again, banning anyone for anything automatically makes you a biased prick who shouldn't be a moderator.
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lol
[Updated on: Fri, 09 October 2009 08:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406330 is a reply to message #405549] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 08:52 |
stoned
Messages: 6
Registered: October 2009
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| Spoony |
People criticise TT about the pointsfix; TT goes to incredible lengths to debate the subject, suggests all sorts of compromises, and eventually just gives the community everything they want.
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elaborate (mainly on the compromises and giving the community everything they want)
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