Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » The Pointsfix and the Game Listings
| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405651 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:49   |
Jellybe4n
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Why are people even bothering to argue with him? Just let him do what he wants to do and contact who he wants, and beaver away behind my back doing what he wants to do, he wants his finger in as many pies as he can, and he'll do whatever he wants to get the pointsfix implemented on as mnay servers as possible. That's what this is about, the points fix and the fact we don't want it. His interest in hostnames has only popped up because he wants to get the points fix servers at the top seeing as we don't run it now. When we ran it for like 18 months he never mentioned host names when we had 5 servers up, now we have 3 which don't run the fix, it's suddenly a scandal of the highest magnitude.....
Once he's gone crying to EA and xwis and most likely Gordon Brown, I'll do what I need to do.
Until then just settle down and let him do his thing.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405652 is a reply to message #405649] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:53 |
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Spoony
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| raven wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:45 |
We've got 5 spots on the front page. The others we've loaned out. Why don't you go after nightma12 or someone who has about 10 nicks that are front page'rs? He's got a larger monopoly than Jelly does.
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Please give a complete list of all the names Jelly controls (both the ones jelly servers use, and the ones jelly decides which other servers can use them)
| raven wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:45 |
You also said in a thread on Jelly that you wanted to start a server, but you'd need an a00 nick. This doesn't have anything to do with why you're starting this topic, does it? For your own personal gain
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No, for Renegade's gain. Removing one community's undeserved, unchallengeable strangehold on the game.
It is interesting that this is finally the first time anybody says anything about my mentioning a00 names in the ladder thread. I said no new server has a hope of flourishing while you keep your monopoly. I would like to set up a TT ladder server, using the most strategic settings for Renegade (i.e. pointsfix, no start credits, no donate... in other words, the original Renegade gameplay settings!), but that is nothing whatsoever to do with "spoony's personal gain". The fact you try to claim it is is just another example of trying to belittle legitimate criticism of your dictatorship, and it makes your case weaker, not stronger.
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405654 is a reply to message #405646] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:57 |
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Prulez
Messages: 439
Registered: August 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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1) I am a Jelly Moderator and an Exodus admin.
2) I am not speaking as a representative of Jelly or it's community.
3) Everything I say is my OWN, PERSONAL view. Not Jelly's.
Now that's said, lets continue.
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:38 |
Crusade? You have an unchallengeable, undeserved monopoly on the game listings
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1) I don't have the hostnames, Jelly has.
2) unchallengeable, yes. There's noone who can get higher then a00.
3) Undeserved? No. Jelly was FIRST to register the nickname, that makes him the owner of the domain name, and that gives him the right to do with it what he wants.
Yes, he does own the highest nickname. So, that means he was smarter then other people by registering it first. Would you also rage at a company if they have a better business tactic then others?
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:38 |
Duhhh, because Jelly has registered ALL the top listings, so when you log in all you see is the Jelly servers and the servers Jelly currently favours. And, yet again, this means any new server has no hope of drawing players.
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So where is this undeserved? What has happened to the good old "First come, First serve"?
So you are against the fact that the owner of a nickname has the right to choose who to give it to.. right? Isn't this the same as saying like "I know you have the best car out there man, but it's unfair that you let your friends drive in it, but you don't let me drive in it! Oh yeah, and I totally hate the wheels you have!"
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:38 |
They say who gets all the a00 names. They say who's top on the game listings. They say: all our servers go right at the top, and our friends come next, and if you cross us we'll take the name back, and if you don't like it you can fuck off.
This is totalitarianism on a scale that dwarfs anything you can say about TT.
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All the a00 names? All the HIGH a00 names, yes. Not all.
Secondly, like I said before, Jelly owns the nicknames. Why isn't he allowed to do with them whatever the fuck he wants? (See my previous example)
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:38 |
But in this case, you'd be registering MILLIONS of domain names, which meant that anyone trying to start a website would have to get your permission or it would have no chance of succeeding.
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But because I have purchased these domain names, paid for them and was the first one to register it, that STILL does NOT change the fact that I can do with it WHATEVER THE BLOODY FUCK I WANT.
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:38 |
Of course. TT agrees with this position, and so do I. (Although, many people on the anti-pointsfix side actually DO NOT agree with this position - they violently disagreed with my right to use the pointsfix in the clanwars league, which instantly destroys their creidibility)
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Clanwars league is YOUR problem, not mine, nor Jelly's.
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:38 |
No, it's not case closed, because Jelly keeps its monopoly over the game listings.
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And he has the right to keep that.
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:38 |
I'm not saying TT is about to say: "ok, we're gonna pull a jelly here, pointsfix is compulsory and if you don't like it you can fuck off". I'm saying that IF WE DID, you would see how wrong it was.
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You have the right to do that, but you have to keep in mind you have to keep the full community support. By doing that, you're not getting that.
Jelly does not have to do anything. Jelly owns it, Jelly was the first, and Jelly has the full right to do with it what the bloody shit he wants.
| nikki6ixx wrote on Fri, 08 May 2009 19:47 |
Every so often, I get this positive feeling that humanity can somehow, possibly attain pure awesomeness, and enlightenment, and that there is light at the end of the road for us all. However, I only need to go to the latest HUD thread at RenForums to remind me of how dumb I was for thinking such stupid things.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405656 is a reply to message #405651] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 11:59 |
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Spoony
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| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 19:49 |
Why are people even bothering to argue with him?
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I'm certainly racking my brains, you and your admins make your case weaker with every post.
| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 19:49 |
Just let him do what he wants to do and contact who he wants, and beaver away behind my back doing what he wants to do, he wants his finger in as many pies as he can, and he'll do whatever he wants to get the pointsfix implemented on as mnay servers as possible. That's what this is about, the points fix and the fact we don't want it. His interest in hostnames has only popped up because he wants to get the points fix servers at the top seeing as we don't run it now. When we ran it for like 18 months he never mentioned host names when we had 5 servers up, now we have 3 which don't run the fix, it's suddenly a scandal of the highest magnitude.....
Once he's gone crying to EA and xwis and most likely Gordon Brown, I'll do what I need to do.
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Y'know, jelly, there have been plenty of people on the anti-pointsfix side who've completely gone wrong over this whole thing, and decided that I'm the great satan when I've done absolutely nothing wrong to them. I didn't think you'd go this way too, I really didn't.
But here's the simple fact of it: what I'm saying about your monopoly on the game listings is completely legitimate to say. When you and your admins try to belittle what is being said instead of actually defending your position, you make your case weaker, not stronger. You show everybody that you are not qualified to handle this power. You're throwing all these conspiracy theories about, concerning why I'm suddenly talking about this now? Gee, I dunno, maybe because I've been away from this game for a year to look after a relative with cancer. It's nothing to do with the pointsfix.
I've done nothing wrong to you here, and when you come back to your senses I'll still consider you my friend, chris.
Will
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405658 is a reply to message #405654] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:08 |
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Spoony
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| Prulez wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:57 |
1) I am a Jelly Moderator and an Exodus admin.
2) I am not speaking as a representative of Jelly or it's community.
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number two seems to be wishful thinking.
| Prulez wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:57 |
3) Undeserved? No. Jelly was FIRST to register the nickname, that makes him the owner of the domain name, and that gives him the right to do with it what he wants.
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so we come back once again to my original point.
let's say EA said: "first person to reply to this thread gets authority to patch renegade!" and crimson got there first.
this would mean TT could say: pointsfix is now compulsory, and there's nothing could you do about it.
in jelly's words: "all i will say is you can fuck off". in your words: "that gives her the right to do with it what he wants"
seriously imagine what i just said. if TT did this, don't you think everyone on jelly would be setting themselves on fire in rage?
| Prulez wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:57 |
But because I have purchased these domain names, paid for them and was the first one to register it, that STILL does NOT change the fact that I can do with it WHATEVER THE BLOODY FUCK I WANT.
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for the purposes of our example, you'd be getting them for free.
| Prulez wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:57 |
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 20:38 |
Of course. TT agrees with this position, and so do I. (Although, many people on the anti-pointsfix side actually DO NOT agree with this position - they violently disagreed with my right to use the pointsfix in the clanwars league, which instantly destroys their creidibility)
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Clanwars league is YOUR problem, not mine, nor Jelly's.
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i think you don't follow me.
TT's position is that each community can choose for itself whether to use the pointsfix. right? i agree with this. most of jelly say they agree with this.
but when i actually tried using the pointsfix at clanwars, i was told that i WASN'T allowed to do that. it was sabotaged by a campaign of lies, manipulation and rigging polls, all done by a bunch of cheaters. and yet everyone who's looked at this situation has supported the cheaters who subverted the admin's decision, instead of supporting the admin himself.
now, if you side with the cheaters instead of me, then don't go saying you agree with each community deciding for itself whether to use the pointsfix, because it just isn't true. if you really thought that, you'd be on my side all the way.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405659 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:10 |
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Spoony
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| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:02 |
Renegade - the movie.
Staring:
spoony as Hitler
the anti pointfix crowd as the jews and gypsies
the renegade forums and TT as the guillable public
jelly as rohm, an old friend spoony must kill off to achieve final domination.
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that's interesting, because right now i'm the one arguing AGAINST a undeserved totalitarian dictatorship, whereas the anti-pointsfix crowd and the jelly community (not much of a difference) are violently defending it.
as for me killing jelly off, well, you were never that bright so i can't claim to be surprised you've got it exactly upside down yet again. me criticising jelly's monopoly on the game listings is no less valid than jelly criticising TT if they wanted to make the pointsfix compulsory.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405660 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:12 |
raven
Messages: 595
Registered: January 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Quote: |
Please give a complete list of all the names Jelly controls (both the ones jelly servers use, and the ones jelly decides which other servers can use them)
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a00
a000
a0000
a00000
a000000
a0000000
a00000002
a00000003
as far as I'm aware.
-Jelly Administrator
-Exodus Administrator
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405662 is a reply to message #405660] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:17 |
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Spoony
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Half the entire top screen, then?
Before this thread was started, I'd have said the jelly community deserves one on the top screen, no problem. After reading the replies from jelly the the other admins, after seeing the absolutely pathetic way they've responded to legitimate criticism of the power they wield over this game, I'm honestly not convinced anymore.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405664 is a reply to message #405656] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:18 |
Jellybe4n
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Registered: August 2004
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:59 |
| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 19:49 |
Why are people even bothering to argue with him?
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I'm certainly racking my brains, you and your admins make your case weaker with every post.
| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 19:49 |
Just let him do what he wants to do and contact who he wants, and beaver away behind my back doing what he wants to do, he wants his finger in as many pies as he can, and he'll do whatever he wants to get the pointsfix implemented on as mnay servers as possible. That's what this is about, the points fix and the fact we don't want it. His interest in hostnames has only popped up because he wants to get the points fix servers at the top seeing as we don't run it now. When we ran it for like 18 months he never mentioned host names when we had 5 servers up, now we have 3 which don't run the fix, it's suddenly a scandal of the highest magnitude.....
Once he's gone crying to EA and xwis and most likely Gordon Brown, I'll do what I need to do.
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Y'know, jelly, there have been plenty of people on the anti-pointsfix side who've completely gone wrong over this whole thing, and decided that I'm the great satan when I've done absolutely nothing wrong to them. I didn't think you'd go this way too, I really didn't.
But here's the simple fact of it: what I'm saying about your monopoly on the game listings is completely legitimate to say. When you and your admins try to belittle what is being said instead of actually defending your position, you make your case weaker, not stronger. You show everybody that you are not qualified to handle this power. You're throwing all these conspiracy theories about, concerning why I'm suddenly talking about this now? Gee, I dunno, maybe because I've been away from this game for a year to look after a relative with cancer. It's nothing to do with the pointsfix.
I've done nothing wrong to you here, and when you come back to your senses I'll still consider you my friend, chris.
Will
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I registered them, we use them, we host good servers, people enjoy playing there. I've never made money from them even though I've had stupid offers to do so. We don't kick and ban people for stupid stuff.
You seem to forget I tried the points fix for 18 months against some serious hostility, I wanted it to stay, I liked it, I still do. Thing is "my community" < -- key phrase here so take note, they didn't want it, they made it crystal clear they didn't want it. So to avoid being a dictator as you call me, I removed the fix at the request of the people who play in my server.
We've done plenty to keep renegade active, we host good servers that are well moderated, we've played over 20 community matches over 5 years nearly against other communities, we organise internal tournaments between servers, we've had 1v1 tournaments open to anyone, 2v2 tournaments open to anyone.
Yet despite all this I'm still the bad guy. If that's what you think Spoony there is not one thing i can say to you to change what you think, and what you're trying to get everyone else to think about me. That is why I said you can fuck off, because I'm comfortable with how I've conducted myself in the game, and if you don't like it, you can do as you please.
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 12:19] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405665 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:19 |
raven
Messages: 595
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Here's the thing, we don't need to answer to you.
That's it for me. I'm tired of debating something that won't even matter when TT is pushed.
-Jelly Administrator
-Exodus Administrator
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405666 is a reply to message #405658] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:21 |
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Prulez
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 21:08 |
| Prulez wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 13:57 |
1) I am a Jelly Moderator and an Exodus admin.
2) I am not speaking as a representative of Jelly or it's community.
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number two seems to be wishful thinking.
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I am very sorry that I am able to have my own opinion.
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 21:08 |
so we come back once again to my original point.
let's say EA said: "first person to reply to this thread gets authority to patch renegade!" and crimson got there first.
this would mean TT could say: pointsfix is now compulsory, and there's nothing could you do about it.
in jelly's words: "all i will say is you can fuck off". in your words: "that gives her the right to do with it what he wants"
seriously imagine what i just said. if TT did this, don't you think everyone on jelly would be setting themselves on fire in rage?
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Except that you are again comparing cows with horses.
We are talking about nicknames here. It has been common practice on forums, irc, games, etc, that whoever registers a nickname first, owns it! The forum (lets just take the forum as an example!) however, can choose to restrict it by allowing 1 account per e-mail address. XWIS does this by allowing 9 nicknames per serial.
Now, when you are saying it's unfair and so on, lets say I have the excellent idea to begin my own beer company (server)! I buy the tools to create my beer (dedicated server) and i begin brewing. Though, my veer is hardly being sold. This could be because of the supermarkets (XWIS listings) hardly showing my beer. Would you rage at those supermarkets aswell because you're beginning something that already is LOADED with other, already used products?
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 21:08 |
for the purposes of our example, you'd be getting them for free.
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Does it change the fact though that he was still the first, and he can STILL do what he wants with it?
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 21:08 |
i think you don't follow me.
TT's position is that each community can choose for itself whether to use the pointsfix. right? i agree with this. most of jelly say they agree with this.
but when i actually tried using the pointsfix at clanwars, i was told that i WASN'T allowed to do that. it was sabotaged by a campaign of lies, manipulation and rigging polls, all done by a bunch of cheaters. and yet everyone who's looked at this situation has supported the cheaters who subverted the admin's decision, instead of supporting the admin himself.
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So, then rage at them, ban them, whatever. You're pulling in something completely unrelated to the discussion at hand here. What the fuck does your bloody cw.cc league has to do with Jelly's high hostnames?
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 21:08 |
now, if you side with the cheaters instead of me, then don't go saying you agree with each community deciding for itself whether to use the pointsfix, because it just isn't true. if you really thought that, you'd be on my side all the way.
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Sure I agree with each community being able to choose what they want. That does not automatically mean that I will also rig polls etc. as you have claimed. Are you really thinking that every single person who is not completely in favor of your holy grail (Read: Pointsfix) is a cheater, liar, etc?
| nikki6ixx wrote on Fri, 08 May 2009 19:47 |
Every so often, I get this positive feeling that humanity can somehow, possibly attain pure awesomeness, and enlightenment, and that there is light at the end of the road for us all. However, I only need to go to the latest HUD thread at RenForums to remind me of how dumb I was for thinking such stupid things.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405670 is a reply to message #405664] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:25 |
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Spoony
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| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:18 |
You seem to forget tried the points fix for 18 months, I wanted it to stay, I liked it, I still do. Thing is "my community" < -- key phrase here so take note, they didn't want it, they made it crystal clear they didn't want it. So to avoid being a dictator as you call me, I removed the fix at the request of the people who play in my server.
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I don't care whether you removed the pointsfix. You seem to want to reduce everything I've said to "spoony is only saying this because the pointsfix isn't there". Go look at my reaction to your announcement that the pointsfix was being removed; it was very courteous, i.e. nothing like the way your community always treats me.
| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:18 |
We've done plenty to keep renegade active, we host good servers that are well moderated, we've played over 20 community matches over 5 years nearly against other communities, we organise internal tournaments between servers, we've had 1v1 tournaments open to anyone, 2v2 tournaments open to anyone.
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Yeah, so? Why does this invalidate my criticism of your monopoly? I guess if I wanted to say: "pointsfix is being made compulsory now" and anybody spoke out against it, i could dismiss their criticism by saying "but i hosted a clan ladder for years!"
| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:18 |
Yet despite all this I'm still the bad guy. If that's what you think Spoony there is not one thing i can say to you to change what you think, and what you're trying to get everyone else to think about me. That is why I said you can fuck off, because I'm comfortable with how I've conducted myself in the game, and if you don't like it, you can do as you please.
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I am sure you will come to your senses. I did not set out to make you the "bad guy". I did not publicly attack you. I simply posted completely legitimate criticism of the monopoly you have on the game listings. You reacted by basically saying: fuck off, there's nothing you can do about it.
Compare this to the incredible lengths I have gone to accommodate people who don't agree with me on the pointsfix; we've basically given them everything they wanted. You can't see the difference between my position and yours?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405671 is a reply to message #405596] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:26 |
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Dover
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| tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:59 |
i talked about the pointsystem only.
glitches and bugs wich got patched are ok, but a pointsystem is somehow different, or??
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No. The old point system was bugged. Getting 20 points for dealing 5 damage is a bug. It was not intended, and even if it was intended then my respect for Westwood is suddenly gone and I don't care what they intended.
It's a bug. It's going to be fixed. This is why it's properly called a "Pointfix", since it's the equivalent of a patch (And would be if there was anyone around to patch it). That's also the reason why anyone who calls it a "Pointsmod" is a huge dicktree.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405672 is a reply to message #405668] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:27 |
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Spoony
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| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:22 |
Tell you what, I'll host 2 x 40 player servers, one points fix and one standard, will that make you happy in your pants?
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I'm a little confused here, are you finally budging an inch (although remember, TT gave you everything you asked for) or are you just trying to get me to say yes so you can go HA!!!...
it seems like you're still missing the point. here is the point.
people say: if we want to use the points bug, we should be able to, we shouldn't need TT's or spoony's permission.
ok, fine. i accept that.
but if anyone wants a new server and they want it to have a hope of getting any players, they do need YOUR permission, and neither you nor any of your staff have said anything that justifies this. indeed anybody who challenges this situation gets treated with contempt!
by stark contrast, when people criticised TT over the pointsfix, we went to incredible lengths to accommodate them. we tried several compromises, all of which were rejected. eventually we just decided to give them everything they wanted.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 12:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405673 is a reply to message #405670] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:32 |
Jellybe4n
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 15:25 |
| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:18 |
You seem to forget tried the points fix for 18 months, I wanted it to stay, I liked it, I still do. Thing is "my community" < -- key phrase here so take note, they didn't want it, they made it crystal clear they didn't want it. So to avoid being a dictator as you call me, I removed the fix at the request of the people who play in my server.
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I don't care whether you removed the pointsfix. You seem to want to reduce everything I've said to "spoony is only saying this because the pointsfix isn't there". Go look at my reaction to your announcement that the pointsfix was being removed; it was very courteous, i.e. nothing like the way your community always treats me.
| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:18 |
We've done plenty to keep renegade active, we host good servers that are well moderated, we've played over 20 community matches over 5 years nearly against other communities, we organise internal tournaments between servers, we've had 1v1 tournaments open to anyone, 2v2 tournaments open to anyone.
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Yeah, so? Why does this invalidate my criticism of your monopoly? I guess if I wanted to say: "pointsfix is being made compulsory now" and anybody spoke out against it, i could dismiss their criticism by saying "but i hosted a clan ladder for years!"
| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:18 |
Yet despite all this I'm still the bad guy. If that's what you think Spoony there is not one thing i can say to you to change what you think, and what you're trying to get everyone else to think about me. That is why I said you can fuck off, because I'm comfortable with how I've conducted myself in the game, and if you don't like it, you can do as you please.
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I am sure you will come to your senses. I did not set out to make you the "bad guy". I did not publicly attack you. I simply posted completely legitimate criticism of the monopoly you have on the game listings. You reacted by basically saying: fuck off, there's nothing you can do about it.
Compare this to the incredible lengths I have gone to accommodate people who don't agree with me on the pointsfix; we've basically given them everything they wanted. You can't see the difference between my position and yours?
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You never came to me directly about your issues, did you? why is that?
You came out out all guns blazing on a public forum looking for support.
You're clever enough to know thay when you come out on a public forum calling me a dicatator it's a pretty derisory comment, so don't play the mr nice guy card on me, you knew perfectly well what your approach was going to be.. I'm a pretty straight forward dude, you know me in person so you should know that, yet you couldn't come to me direct? what is with that? You'd have been suprised at the response I expect.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405674 is a reply to message #405673] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:35 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:32 |
You never came to me directly about your issues, did you? why is that?
You came out out all guns blazing on a public forum looking for support.
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Why say this publicly? I would've thought that was obvious. Because this is an important issue and it ought to be talked about openly, not by shady dealings behind closed doors like it's always been about up till now.
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405675 is a reply to message #405672] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:35 |
Jellybe4n
Messages: 409
Registered: August 2004
Karma: 0
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 15:27 |
| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:22 |
Tell you what, I'll host 2 x 40 player servers, one points fix and one standard, will that make you happy in your pants?
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I'm a little confused here, are you finally budging an inch (although remember, TT gave you everything you asked for) or are you just trying to get me to say yes so you can go HA!!!...
it seems like you're still missing the point. here is the point.
people say: if we want to use the points bug, we should be able to, we shouldn't need TT's or spoony's permission.
ok, fine. i accept that.
but if anyone wants a new server and they want it to have a hope of getting any players, they do need YOUR permission, and neither you nor any of your staff have said anything that justifies this. indeed anybody who challenges this situation gets treated with contempt!
by stark contrast, when people criticised TT over the pointsfix, we went to incredible lengths to accommodate them. we tried several compromises, all of which were rejected. eventually we just decided to give them everything they wanted.
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No, read my last post, it is something I've been thinking for a while. I like the fix, I never wanted it off. I did it to please the community. I've said numerous times to people I like the fix.
If you'd come to me I would have told you about my thoughts on 2 x servers and ran that by you. But no, you came out here looking for a public flogging..
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405676 is a reply to message #405674] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:37 |
Jellybe4n
Messages: 409
Registered: August 2004
Karma: 0
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 15:35 |
| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:32 |
You never came to me directly about your issues, did you? why is that?
You came out out all guns blazing on a public forum looking for support.
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Why say this publicly? I would've thought that was obvious. Because this is an important issue and it ought to be talked about openly, not by shady dealings behind closed doors like it's always been about up till now.
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There's nothing shady about coming to me directly...
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405677 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:43 |
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We do not appear to be noting the point of the topic, we're devolving into pointsfix related arguments, and this has nothing to do with that.
This might be clearer if I had made the post, as I have no TT involvement, or "pointsfix-pushing" history etc etc etc.
The question is: Why does Jelly (Yes, I know that he registered them first, let me finish) get to control the top half of the server listing? That puts the power of who gets the bulk of the newer players into their servers into Jelly's hands, new players make or break new communities. Why is Jelly responsible for that? (I feel I should point out I play at Jelly, and have done for some time, I was even on the temp list for a while)
It's quite simple, why does the fact that Jelly was first to register the nicknames give him the right to decide who gets the bulk of new player influx. I wouldn't be asking if he registered the top two or three, he's got 7? 8? Jelly doesn't host that many servers, that appears, to me, disproportional.
With NO mention of pointsfix please answer the question:
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Why does Jelly get to decide which (new) communities get the newer players?
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(My reasons for coming to the conclusion that newer players join the one of the first servers they see are too obvious to be typed out)
Edit at Jelly himself, I think Spoony finds it "shady" that any deals relating to which servers get more exposure are carried out in private. Given that coming to you directly does not put the conversation into a public forum such as this one is what is irking Spoony, I would think.
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 12:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405678 is a reply to message #405675] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 12:47 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
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Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
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| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:35 |
No, read my last post, it is something I've been thinking for a while. I like the fix, I never wanted it off. I did it to please the community. I've said numerous times to people I like the fix.
If you'd come to me I would have told you about my thoughts on 2 x servers and ran that by you. But no, you came out here looking for a public flogging..
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You remember my thread called "thoughts on the ladder".
from my first post:
i also think that at some point there will be a server with the 'pure' strategic settings, perhaps TT will host it as the 'official' server for ladder play, or perhaps i'll do it independently (think SpoonySrv). basically so there is always somewhere for people to play for ladder, disregarding any current community bias and whatnot, and to prevent one community having a stranglehold on the ladder. (i'd need an a00 nick for that though. i'm sure i don't need to point out the futility of starting a new server without one.)
i have actually wondered who to talk to about helping me run this, didn't i ask you?
if you do wanna sort this out together, that would be great. it would be something of a compromise between our positions, but it wouldn't invalidate anything i've said about the listings... (and remember, TT basically gave the anti-pointsfix crowd EVERYTHING they wanted)
| Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:35 |
There's nothing shady about coming to me directly...
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Interesting you think that. I wonder if I did say this to you privately and you said yes, what everyone else who wants an a00 name would think about the situation, knowing that you and I are renebuddies and friends in real life. You don't think people would see it as cronyism? They'd just see it as me trying to secure some benefit from myself out of a flawed system, instead of fixing the problem like TT probably ought to be doing.
zell, read the thread, please, every single post especially mine, then come back and give your opinions when you actually know what we're talking about
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 12:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405681 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 13:01 |
ZeLL
Messages: 32
Registered: February 2004
Location: England
Karma: 0
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why because i stand up for what i believe made this game great? i have told spoony plenty of times i enjoy renegade how it has always been the way it is still played i have tried to pointsfix and i did not enjoy it so much i told him this and he said its ok u have ur opinion and then he turns around and starts attacking the jelly community and jelly himself for having control of the a00 names?
all this because jelly got the names first and spoony all of a sudden has every right to do w.e he wants with this game
if all ur going to do is call me a moron without telling me what u disagree with u can just stfu and stay out of the topic and consider urself a moron
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405686 is a reply to message #405681] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 13:09 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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| ZeLL wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 15:01 |
why because i stand up for what i believe made this game great? i have told spoony plenty of times i enjoy renegade how it has always been the way it is still played i have tried to pointsfix and i did not enjoy it so much i told him this and he said its ok u have ur opinion
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...so far so good
| ZeLL wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 15:01 |
and then he turns around and starts attacking the jelly community and jelly himself for having control of the a00 names?
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...no. i'm not attacking the jelly community. i'm not attacking jelly himself. what i am doing is criticising the power they have but don't deserve.
| ZeLL wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 15:01 |
all this because jelly got the names first and spoony all of a sudden has every right to do w.e he wants with this game
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NO, NOT SPOONY.
clearly somebody must have control over the names. if it isn't someone it'll be someone else. if someone has to have this authority, i am simply saying it is better in TT's hands (the group entrusted by EA and XWIS to patch the game) than in one individual community like jelly. this is nothing to do with me personally.
back to your first post.
| ZeLL wrote |
i cant believe u say this shit about jelly and its community when jelly has alrdy said it its given everybody a place to play for years now jelly has even backed u up on the pointsfix and because he would like his community happy he chose to take it off he has been very open to helping you improve renegade and he has tried a few things to make renegade more enjoyable( such as the armour mods and the points fix)
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you start off so well... and then...
| ZeLL wrote |
why should everybody in renegade play the game the way u want it?
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...you crash and burn.
it's obvious you haven't read a single post of mine on the subject of the pointsfix.
| Roni wrote |
Spoony,
Here is the cure for your itch. I already offered up my AOOOOOOOO nick for 10,000 usd or I can rent it to you or TT to host a server for 250 USD monthly with a down payment of 5000 usd. You can be right up there with Jelly and go head to head with this community if you want. You would be 5 names from the top. How about that!! This will help you break up Jelly's so called monopoly. If you are truly serious about getting a name up top for TT to advertise itself then I suggest you dig into your pocketbook and put your money where your mouth is...
Roni
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This is probably the time to compare Jelly/a00 to TT/pointsfix again.
So when you thought TT wanted to force the pointsfix on everybody, and you said that shouldn't happen... how about if we replied saying: "how much is it worth to you?"
But no, we went to incredible lengths to accommodate your opinion despite your immaturity, we suggested plenty of compromises all of which you rejected, and eventually we just gave you everything you wanted.
I'm gonna keep repeating this as often as I have to, i.e. every single time someone from Jelly or one of their beneficiaries acts like I'm out of line criticising their game listing monopoly.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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