Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » The Pointsfix and the Game Listings
The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 01:36 ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/20608.png) |
Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars) Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
|
|
OK, so people think the pointsfix should be optional for each community. I agree. This is a reasonable position to take.
(although, it MUST be said that most people who say this tend to actually disagree with their own position when you give
them an example, i.e. when i wanted to use the pointsfix in the clanwars league... when that happens, it seems to be that
a community's admin ISN'T allowed to decide this, must instead submit to bullying and manipulation from a bunch of cheaters)
So let's make the pointsfix optional. What will happen?
Some servers will use the points bug, some servers with the points fix. Players can take this into consideration when they
decide where they want to play, just like they take all the other server settings into account (map rotation, game size,
rules about whether flaming APCs are allowed...)
Everybody's happy. Right?
Wrong.
I present to you the problem of the a00 nicks. One community has a monopoly upon them, and therefore, the game listings.
While this monopoly remains, no new server has a chance of flourishing. For example, there is currently nowhere with the
ideal ladder settings (i.e. pointsfix, zero start credits, no donate... in other words, the default version of renegade!),
and there is no way a server with these settings could ever hope to draw new players.
Let's examine the validity of the two "dictatorships" here. TT's authority to patch the game, and the Jelly community's
monopoly on the a00 names.
TT is a group that EA has entrusted to patch this game. That's quite impressive.
Why does the Jelly community have the a00 names? One reason and one reason alone: they got there first when WOL changed to
XWIS. That's all. There is no special reason why they deserve this. Anybody could have gotten there first. We can, if we
like, speculate who else was trying to do the same thing at the time, or what would have happened if they got there five
minutes before Jelly did. This authority was not given to Jelly by EA or by Westwood or even by Strike-Team. This authority
was not elected by the community either. This authority was seized.
Now, Jelly himself is my friend, and I will admit that there are many people who could have abused this situation far more.
But that does not change anything.
Now, even though the anti-pointsfix crowd has lost every single debate on the subject AND has been caught using the most
appalling tactics imaginable, TT is still making this concession: make the pointsfix optional. So, I think it is fair for
the Jelly community to make the same kind of concession on the dictatorship THEY enforce on renegade... which, unlike TT,
they have no valid claim upon.
Clearly one group must have control over these names. So who? If anybody deserves this authority (and someone WILL have it
no matter what), who deserves it more than TT? And please don't say the Jelly community, that would be a bad joke and not
even a very good one.
So, I propose that TT acquire the a00 names and take on the responsibility of distributing them.
I absolutely swear that I would do everything to ensure they are used fairly. For example, the Jelly community certainly
deserves one (as do other long-standing communities like n00bstories), but it doesn't deserve as many as it wants, and it
doesn't deserve to say who else gets one and who doesn't.
(For Jelly himself: I've often seen you complain about the way you get flamed over your choices in this matter. Sure, some
of the flaming against you has been excessive, but if you can't handle getting criticised for wielding power, don't wield
power at all, especially when you seized it in the first place. I CAN handle it.)
Need another argument to support my position?
The points bug has taught players all kinds of bad habits that some people just aren't good enough to shake off. I suppose
it's OK if they want to host a server where they don't have to get any better at the game, where they can shoot tanks
ineffectually instead of doing something useful, and where if they run out of money because their refinery and harvesters
keep dying it ISN'T their fault for not doing something more useful to prevent it. Well, if you wanna keep that in your
server, go ahead. But the same people who think this also have an undeserved, unchallengeable chokehold on the game
listings... do I need to spell out the enormous problem here? Any new player is gonna jump straight into these flawed
servers and end up corrupted by the same bad habits, not knowing what Renegade's points system was supposed to be like.
And if anyone says I'm asking something unreasonable here, then don't act like TT would be unreasonable to make the
pointsfix mandatory. At least TT's authority in the matter of the pointsfix was actually EARNED.
If anyone from the Jelly community said: "no, they're ours, suck it up", then it would be IMPOSSIBLE to argue that TT would
be wrong if we said "no, the decision to make the pointsfix compulsory is ours to make, suck it up". If anyone from the
Jelly community still wants to whinge about dictatorships when they talk about the pointsfix, how about they start by
relinquishing their own dictatorship over the game listings?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
|
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405554 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 02:38 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/2253.jpg) |
Hex
Messages: 858 Registered: March 2004
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
I don't normally waste my time in these threads but I will say this
A000 names - done to death, nothing will change and there no way that TT should ever have power over them, also with the TT patch being forced (for XWIS users), A00 nicks won't matter since the current scripts (3.4.4) already list servers by count not names.
Points 'fix' - Sure, make it mandatory, it will take what? a few hours to bypass it with scripts.dll
Sorry to rip your nice long post apart with a few simple facts
Hex.
**excuse the edits - just home from night shift and its time for bed!
goztow wrote on Tue, 11 May 2010 08:00 | If we had to ban all who ever cheated or ever created a cheat (obj3cts and such) then I don't think there would be many members left here (sad fact).
|
reborn wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 23:37 | std is for pro's. ![Razz](images/smiley_icons/icon_razz.gif)
|
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 02:57] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405556 is a reply to message #405554] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 02:57 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/20608.png) |
Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars) Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
|
|
Hex wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 04:38 | there no way that TT should even have power over them
|
Then perhaps you can justify to me the Jelly community's power over them?
Hex wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 04:38 | Points 'fix' - Sure, make it mandatory, it will take what? a few hours to bypass it with scripts.dll
|
I'm not suggesting we make it mandatory.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
|
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405558 is a reply to message #405557] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 03:05 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/20608.png) |
Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars) Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
|
|
Hex wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 05:01 | I have no need to justify it
|
I rather think you do. Please post a brief list of all the renegade communities in which you are a admin/moderator?
Hex wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 05:01 | can you justify them not having power over them considering that it won't matter?
|
Firstly it matters now. Secondly can you explain for everyone exactly what "will" happen about server nicks? Be specific, please.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405564 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 03:49 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/3415.gif) |
reborn
Messages: 3231 Registered: September 2004 Location: uk - london
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars) |
|
|
As Hex pointed out, even if the points fix was mandatory, someone could create a server hack in the form of scripts.dll to re-introduce it. Whether it's mandatory or not, people will inevitably have the option either way.
The new TT patch sorts games by xwis player count, not nicks. Unless you are talking about an interim solution to the problem, then the debate on should Jelly be stripped of the nicks or not is irrelevant, as they will count for nothing with the patch is enforced.
The solution of sorting by xwis player count puts the decision of what server should be listed at the top firmly in the hands of the most important person, the player.
If people like the server, it will be at the top, if they don't, then it will simply dwindle...
As much as I would like to say drop the list by xwis player count idea, and let it be listed by nick names still, then give me the power to assign who I feel should be at the top, it seems fairer to let players decide with there feet (or mice).
The only thing I would like to change about the TT system is the listing by player counts based on xwis counts. Preferably the player count would be accurate instead and take into consideration direct connections. I understand why this isn't going to happen though...
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405569 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 04:20 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/24693.jpg) |
tellsson
Messages: 107 Registered: May 2009 Location: Melmac
Karma: 0
|
Recruit |
|
|
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | There is no special reason why they deserve this. Anybody could have gotten there first. We can, if we
like, speculate who else was trying to do the same thing at the time, or what would have happened if they got there five
minutes before Jelly did.
|
well, they didnt. Jelly was faster and so he deserve it. its like in real life, the one who is faster get the better place/wins.
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | Now, Jelly himself is my friend, and I will admit that there are many people who could have abused this situation far more.
But that does not change anything.
|
so, you wanna say jelly did abuse it? Did he hinder all others to get the a00`s faster? Did he cheat or such??
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | Now, even though the anti-pointsfix crowd has lost every single debate on the subject AND has been caught using the most
appalling tactics imaginable
|
nice lie! The fact that the pointmod did empty j1 is still a valid reason against the pointmod.
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 |
Any new player is gonna jump straight into these flawed
servers and end up corrupted by the same bad habits, not knowing what Renegade's points system was supposed to be like.
|
if they played the multiplayer training map first, then they played without the pointmod, and so they just join a server where the point system is the same like the one where they learned to play ren on multiplayer. They buy a game, they learn it, and they get the hang to this pointsystem, and they like it. whats wrong with this? Isnt it the players choice on wich server or with wich pointsystem he wanna play?
Ren was made and marketed with this "flawed" pointsystem.
Greetz telly ^^
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405570 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 04:33 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/4882.jpg) |
Goztow
Messages: 9734 Registered: March 2005 Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
|
General (5 Stars) Goztoe |
|
|
I suppose one of the key elements in this whole discussion would be "how long will the interim period last". It's blatantly obvious that some very long lasting communities have died or are on the brink of dying and other very new communities are florishing, because of the a00 nicknames. The fact one person/community can decide about the florishing or dying of long lasting communities in Renegade is indeed worrying, but it has been so, and we've lived for it, for the last years.
I'm thinking of black-cell, MP-gaming and many other communities. Ironically the communities that are florishing today, doing so at the expense of those examples, are all using game server tools that have been created by e.g. black-cell (SSGM), MP-gaming (reborn released multiple scripts), BI (BIATCH), ... I find it personally very ironical that BlackIntel's request for a higher nickname got denied while the people owning the nicknames are using BlackIntel's work to protect their servers from cheaters (BIATCH). But hey, I suppose we all have our reasons.
We all know that this "problem" can - until TT makes its way to be an official patch - only be solved by jelly himself. He made his POV very clear a while ago, so I'm not sure at all what Spoony wants to accomplish with this topic. It won't bring any results. It just has the merit of stating the obvious - again.
And before someone comes up with it: I'm not objective on the matter myself. I'm using a more or less high a0 nickname for TK2 community (a0000000b, not owned by Jelly BTW) and I've been in a conflict with Jelly in a far away past about a0 as well. But I still like to express my opinion on the matter (in a civilized way).
Last but not least: bringing multiplayer practice into this whole debate is probably one of the worst choices u could make, Telly... seriously...
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 04:38] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405574 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 05:05 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/4882.jpg) |
Goztow
Messages: 9734 Registered: March 2005 Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
|
General (5 Stars) Goztoe |
|
|
Yes, that's what I was aiming at. The map in multiplayer practise has never been updated with any patch. It contains a high number of errors. E.g. if u purchase a sbh and then purchase another character, that other character will be stealth. Other example:; the rocks at the Nod refinery are positioned differently than in the 1.037 version of Under. Just to show that your example is completely non representative of online play for things like e.g. points...
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
|
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405583 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 06:07 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/8.png) |
Crimson
Messages: 7429 Registered: February 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
|
General (5 Stars) ADMINISTRATOR |
|
|
The highest nickname I had registered was a0000000h, or maybe e, I don't remember. The nickname I have was loaned, then later given to me by Jelly. As was stated here, Jelly decides who gets to be on the top of the list. TK2, for example, fell out of favor with Jelly and lost their high standing on the list. Communities like Black Cell and Black Intel who have made the most prolific tools for servers like SSGM and BIATCH are denied their requests from the very person who is using their software for their own server.
I'm the bawss.
|
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405585 is a reply to message #405549] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 06:11 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/3415.gif) |
reborn
Messages: 3231 Registered: September 2004 Location: uk - london
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars) |
|
|
If you want to do it properly, but surely you could just throw in some crappy server hack on the ::damsged event, to grant points to the damager, using a conditional of the damaged objects health percent?
I know what you're saying is right, but I think it could be done in a shitty way fairly quickly.
|
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405590 is a reply to message #405574] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 06:30 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/24693.jpg) |
tellsson
Messages: 107 Registered: May 2009 Location: Melmac
Karma: 0
|
Recruit |
|
|
Goztow wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:05 | Yes, that's what I was aiming at. The map in multiplayer practise has never been updated with any patch. It contains a high number of errors. E.g. if u purchase a sbh and then purchase another character, that other character will be stealth. Other example:; the rocks at the Nod refinery are positioned differently than in the 1.037 version of Under. Just to show that your example is completely non representative of online play for things like e.g. points...
|
but the players are still used on this pointsystem, and so if they have the choice to play with or without pointmod, they like to play on servers without pointmod. like it was clearly the case on J1.
greetz telly ^^
like i said you in the past: i`m not anti-pointmod, i`m pro-community.
![http://i39.tinypic.com/2pooaqe_th.gif](http://i39.tinypic.com/2pooaqe_th.gif)
my youtube. http://www.youtube.com/user/1b2en
TnG #5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U9d6ZwjMvQ << Nod pwns (Trance)
TnG #6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0O3NEQ_RGo << We can do it (Metal)
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 06:31] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405594 is a reply to message #405590] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 06:55 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/4882.jpg) |
Goztow
Messages: 9734 Registered: March 2005 Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
|
General (5 Stars) Goztoe |
|
|
tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 15:30 |
Goztow wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 14:05 | Yes, that's what I was aiming at. The map in multiplayer practise has never been updated with any patch. It contains a high number of errors. E.g. if u purchase a sbh and then purchase another character, that other character will be stealth. Other example:; the rocks at the Nod refinery are positioned differently than in the 1.037 version of Under. Just to show that your example is completely non representative of online play for things like e.g. points...
|
but the players are still used on this pointsystem, and so if they have the choice to play with or without pointmod, they like to play on servers without pointmod. like it was clearly the case on J1.
greetz telly ^^
like i said you in the past: i`m not anti-pointmod, i`m pro-community.
|
So the servers should make it so after you buy a sbh, your new character will also be stealthy because people get used to this in the multiplayer practise? Because that's what YOU are saying here. That's independent from the fact if people actually like to play on a server with or without pointfix.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
|
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405598 is a reply to message #405569] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 07:10 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/20608.png) |
Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars) Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
|
|
tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | There is no special reason why they deserve this. Anybody could have gotten there first. We can, if we
like, speculate who else was trying to do the same thing at the time, or what would have happened if they got there five
minutes before Jelly did.
|
well, they didnt. Jelly was faster and so he deserve it. its like in real life, the one who is faster get the better place/wins.
|
k, so let's say TT had the ability to patch the game JUST BECAUSE EA said "first person to post here gets to take over the renegade patcher", and crimson got the first post.
let's then say TT said: pointsfix will be compulsory and we're also gonna patch the game to make that totally unchangeable.
according to your 'logic', there'd be absolutely nothing wrong with TT doing that. the decision would be completely TT's and they wouldn't have to explain it to anybody, because they got there first, case closed.
if you think it ISN'T ok for TT to do that just because they got there first (which is, of course, not the case anyway), then perhaps you're beginning to see why it's not OK for Jelly to do the same.
tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | Now, Jelly himself is my friend, and I will admit that there are many people who could have abused this situation far more.
But that does not change anything.
|
so, you wanna say jelly did abuse it?
|
I don't need to. Even if he used it to the best of his fairness, it's still power he shouldn't have.
tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | Now, even though the anti-pointsfix crowd has lost every single debate on the subject AND has been caught using the most
appalling tactics imaginable
|
nice lie! The fact that the pointmod did empty j1 is still a valid reason against the pointmod.
|
uh no, i said if you can't even explain why the flawed, unintended system is better and have it stand up to debate - and nobody has done that - you've no right to make sure it continues to impose the same bad habits onto new players, and stunt their skills in the same way yours have been.
and, of course, no rebuttal to "AND has been caught using the most appalling tactics imaginable"... but then, you can get away with the most extraordinary bullshit so long as you're against the pointsfix.
tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 |
Any new player is gonna jump straight into these flawed
servers and end up corrupted by the same bad habits, not knowing what Renegade's points system was supposed to be like.
|
if they played the multiplayer training map first, then they played without the pointmod, and so they just join a server where the point system is the same like the one where they learned to play ren on multiplayer.
|
um, that does your argument more harm than good. presumably you're outraged at all these servers who've altered the unit costs, the humvee/APC rates of fire, and prevented the ability to ob walk and base to base.
tellsson wrote | like i said you in the past: i`m not anti-pointmod, i`m pro-community.
|
Prove it. Go to Jelly and tell him he is wrong to keep the a00 names, and it would be better to give them to TT to use them responsibly.
reborn wrote | The new TT patch sorts games by xwis player count, not nicks. Unless you are talking about an interim solution to the problem, then the debate on should Jelly be stripped of the nicks or not is irrelevant, as they will count for nothing with the patch is enforced.
|
firstly the patch isn't here yet. secondly i'm still waiting for a very clear explanation of exactly how the game listings will work.
Goztow wrote | I suppose one of the key elements in this whole discussion would be "how long will the interim period last".
|
Certainly.
Goztow wrote | We all know that this "problem" can - until TT makes its way to be an official patch - only be solved by jelly himself. He made his POV very clear a while ago, so I'm not sure at all what Spoony wants to accomplish with this topic. It won't bring any results. It just has the merit of stating the obvious - again.
|
Yeah, well, I think I've put it better. See the comparison to TT (which is, of course, unfair to TT to begin with since TT's authority was earned, Jelly's wasn't).
And by the way, it seems to me that there IS something that can be done about it now... namely recycling the nicknames and putting them under TT's control for fair usage. And I put it to everybody that if the Jelly community can't successfully justify their dictatorship, they can't complain if this happens.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 07:16] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405603 is a reply to message #405598] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 07:58 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/24693.jpg) |
tellsson
Messages: 107 Registered: May 2009 Location: Melmac
Karma: 0
|
Recruit |
|
|
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:10 |
tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | There is no special reason why they deserve this. Anybody could have gotten there first. We can, if we
like, speculate who else was trying to do the same thing at the time, or what would have happened if they got there five
minutes before Jelly did.
|
well, they didnt. Jelly was faster and so he deserve it. its like in real life, the one who is faster get the better place/wins.
|
k, so let's say TT had the ability to patch the game JUST BECAUSE EA said "first person to post here gets to take over the renegade patcher", and crimson got the first post.
let's then say TT said: pointsfix will be compulsory and we're also gonna patch the game to make that totally unchangeable.
according to your 'logic', there'd be absolutely nothing wrong with TT doing that. the decision would be completely TT's and they wouldn't have to explain it to anybody, because they got there first, case closed.
if you think it ISN'T ok for TT to do that just because they got there first (which is, of course, not the case anyway), then perhaps you're beginning to see why it's not OK for Jelly to do the same.
|
nice hypotheses, but still, fact is: JELLY WAS FASTER.
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:10 | tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | Now, Jelly himself is my friend, and I will admit that there are many people who could have abused this situation far more.
But that does not change anything.
|
so, you wanna say jelly did abuse it?
|
I don't need to. Even if he used it to the best of his fairness, it's still power he shouldn't have.
|
You did! "who could have abused this situation FAR MORE." Imo that means that he did
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:10 | tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | Now, even though the anti-pointsfix crowd has lost every single debate on the subject AND has been caught using the most
appalling tactics imaginable
|
nice lie! The fact that the pointmod did empty j1 is still a valid reason against the pointmod.
|
uh no, i said if you can't even explain why the flawed, unintended system is better and have it stand up to debate - and nobody has done that - you've no right to make sure it continues to impose the same bad habits onto new players, and stunt their skills in the same way yours have been.
and, of course, no rebuttal to "AND has been caught using the most appalling tactics imaginable"... but then, you can get away with the most extraordinary bullshit so long as you're against the pointsfix.
|
The fact that the pointmod did empty j1 is still a valid reason against the pointmod. Do you really think i shouldnt defend my "home" against a modification wich kills "my home"?
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:10 | tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 |
Any new player is gonna jump straight into these flawed
servers and end up corrupted by the same bad habits, not knowing what Renegade's points system was supposed to be like.
|
if they played the multiplayer training map first, then they played without the pointmod, and so they just join a server where the point system is the same like the one where they learned to play ren on multiplayer.
|
um, that does your argument more harm than good. presumably you're outraged at all these servers who've altered the unit costs, the humvee/APC rates of fire, and prevented the ability to ob walk and base to base.
|
this all was changes wich made the game better for the players.
the players joined the first server on the list. the players did destignate what they would play, and most of them left j1 coz they didnt make fast enough money (with the included pointmod). They joined other servers wich didnt use the pointmod. Isnt that fact enough what the players want?
But dont let this topic turn into another endless pointmod debate. This topic is about the a00 names.
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:10 | tellsson wrote | like i said you in the past: i`m not anti-pointmod, i`m pro-community.
|
Prove it. Go to Jelly and tell him he is wrong to keep the a00 names, and it would be better to give them to TT to use them responsibly.
|
no. I`m a jelly community member for ages, and so my "heart beats for the jelly-community".
Is it jelly`s faillure that he got the a00 names? That he was faster then all others?
Greetz telly ^^
|
|
|
|
Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405608 is a reply to message #405603] |
Tue, 06 October 2009 08:34 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
![](http://renegadeforums.com/images/custom_avatars/22983.jpg) |
Herr Surth
Messages: 1684 Registered: July 2007
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:10 |
tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | There is no special reason why they deserve this. Anybody could have gotten there first. We can, if we
like, speculate who else was trying to do the same thing at the time, or what would have happened if they got there five
minutes before Jelly did.
|
well, they didnt. Jelly was faster and so he deserve it. its like in real life, the one who is faster get the better place/wins.
|
k, so let's say TT had the ability to patch the game JUST BECAUSE EA said "first person to post here gets to take over the renegade patcher", and crimson got the first post.
let's then say TT said: pointsfix will be compulsory and we're also gonna patch the game to make that totally unchangeable.
according to your 'logic', there'd be absolutely nothing wrong with TT doing that. the decision would be completely TT's and they wouldn't have to explain it to anybody, because they got there first, case closed.
if you think it ISN'T ok for TT to do that just because they got there first (which is, of course, not the case anyway), then perhaps you're beginning to see why it's not OK for Jelly to do the same.
|
nice hypotheses, but still, fact is: JELLY WAS FASTER.
| How does that refute the fact that its unfair?
Quote: |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:10 | tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | Now, Jelly himself is my friend, and I will admit that there are many people who could have abused this situation far more.
But that does not change anything.
|
so, you wanna say jelly did abuse it?
|
I don't need to. Even if he used it to the best of his fairness, it's still power he shouldn't have.
|
You did! "who could have abused this situation FAR MORE." Imo that means that he did
| He's not saying he didnt, he's saying that it doesnt matter if he did, because his point would still stand either way.
Quote: |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 16:10 | tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 06:20 |
Spoony wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 | Now, even though the anti-pointsfix crowd has lost every single debate on the subject AND has been caught using the most
appalling tactics imaginable
|
nice lie! The fact that the pointmod did empty j1 is still a valid reason against the pointmod.
|
uh no, i said if you can't even explain why the flawed, unintended system is better and have it stand up to debate - and nobody has done that - you've no right to make sure it continues to impose the same bad habits onto new players, and stunt their skills in the same way yours have been.
and, of course, no rebuttal to "AND has been caught using the most appalling tactics imaginable"... but then, you can get away with the most extraordinary bullshit so long as you're against the pointsfix.
|
The fact that the pointmod did empty j1 is still a valid reason against the pointmod. Do you really think i shouldnt defend my "home" against a modification wich kills "my home"?
| It's a valid reason to make an argument about large parts of j1 players being stubborn people alright. Not that I care if they are, its their server.
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sat Aug 24 13:09:48 MST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01451 seconds
|