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Mesa deadzone fix [message #404897] Thu, 01 October 2009 21:53 Go to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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can someone knock up a quick fix for this so we can start balance testing it right away?

i think it will give GDI the edge, but it needs testing... may as well do it while we're waiting for the rest of the features to be finished.


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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #404910 is a reply to message #404897] Thu, 01 October 2009 23:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goztow is currently offline  Goztow
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I concur. This could actually help balance, IMO.

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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #404979 is a reply to message #404897] Fri, 02 October 2009 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie or NuneGa is currently offline  Jamie or NuneGa
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mesa is already a gdi map anyway most of the time.

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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #404991 is a reply to message #404897] Fri, 02 October 2009 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nightma12 is currently offline  Nightma12
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deadzone?
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #404992 is a reply to message #404991] Fri, 02 October 2009 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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there are three deadzones.

1. the bridge.
tanks on the bridge can't properly attack ground targets.
- they can't properly hit buildings
- they only do half damage to tanks
- they don't do splash damage to infantry
2. side path near the airstrip pad.
- tanks can't hit the airstrip ramp
- tanks only do half damage to any nod vehicle behind the wall
- if you shoot the turret, there's a weird situation whereby you do half damage to the turret and full damage to the refinery (!?)
3. infantry area between the two refineries
- grenadiers and rocket launchers can't properly hit the airstrip ramp.

this also happens on the hourglass hill, which should probably be fixed too (for example, if an arty falls back down the hill past a certain point, a med tank on the hill only does half damage attacking it, which basically means the arty can be kept alive by the driver's tech on his own, which would not normally be the case)


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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405017 is a reply to message #404897] Fri, 02 October 2009 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dover is currently offline  Dover
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I'd support this if we also changed the AGT being able to attack inside the mesa, and the ob not being able to do the same.

DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19

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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405019 is a reply to message #404897] Fri, 02 October 2009 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ErroR is currently offline  ErroR
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what about the nod harv Huh it comes a lot later than the gdi one
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405030 is a reply to message #404897] Fri, 02 October 2009 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dover is currently offline  Dover
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A possible solution would involve completely re-arranging the Nod base, so the airstrip is closer to the mesa (Maybe to the current power plant location?) so the harv comes at a time closer to GDI's, and moving the obelisk more toward the back of the base to both improve the angle of attack into the mesa and help with snipers off the the right that are currently out of the obelisk's influence (Unlike the AGT).

Of course, that's beyond TT's scope.


DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19

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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405035 is a reply to message #404897] Fri, 02 October 2009 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ErroR is currently offline  ErroR
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that will dramatically change the map as we know it tho Sad
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405036 is a reply to message #404979] Fri, 02 October 2009 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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Nune wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 12:37

mesa is already a gdi map anyway most of the time.

gud 1 nunega

wait are you serious?


liquidv2
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405038 is a reply to message #405017] Fri, 02 October 2009 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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Dover wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 15:32

I'd support this if we also changed the AGT being able to attack inside the mesa, and the ob not being able to do the same.

that has little to no effect on the outcome of the game, and gdi seriously needs help on the map

it's easy to say "Mesa is unfair because the GDI defenses can fire into the tunnel when the Nod ones cannot", but in reality it doesn't matter much if at all

you have to actually play renegade to understand


liquidv2
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405060 is a reply to message #404979] Fri, 02 October 2009 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BLûεl4βêL is currently offline  BLûεl4βêL
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Nune wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 13:37

mesa is already a gdi map anyway most of the time.


LOL i used to !gameover NOW as GDI, i loved playing as NOD - fucking arty pressure is bs


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Legend has it, that long long ago before the tiberum wars, Havoc and Sakura conceived a love child in the backseat of a GDI Hum-vee. 9 months later, IsItInYou popped out and headshot them both, then nuked their refinery.
how did the baby get a gun?! rgGh probably
so the baby spectated both his parents and drove home from the C&C_Hospital.mix in the humvee parked outside?!
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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405063 is a reply to message #405038] Fri, 02 October 2009 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dover is currently offline  Dover
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liquidv2 wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 15:53

Dover wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 15:32

I'd support this if we also changed the AGT being able to attack inside the mesa, and the ob not being able to do the same.

that has little to no effect on the outcome of the game, and gdi seriously needs help on the map

it's easy to say "Mesa is unfair because the GDI defenses can fire into the tunnel when the Nod ones cannot", but in reality it doesn't matter much if at all

you have to actually play renegade to understand



GDI? Needs help on Mesa?
I lol'd.


DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19

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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405066 is a reply to message #404897] Fri, 02 October 2009 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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dig me up some stats on which team wins more on mesa with the pointmod in place
ask crimson what the stats are for n00bstories (which uses the pointmod) for mesa
go ahead Smile

you can lol all over yourself if you figure it out


liquidv2
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405070 is a reply to message #404897] Fri, 02 October 2009 19:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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you really really like to talk about things but that doesn't mean you actually know what you're talking about

i just lol'd so hard i had to change my pants


liquidv2
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405071 is a reply to message #405070] Fri, 02 October 2009 19:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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AGT shooting the nod harvester really doesn't make much difference. it's only the machinegun and it's only for a couple of seconds each way.

in fact the harv fight is actually more even on mesa than it is on other harv-maps. (field, cityfly, wallsfly, under, and canyon) - because there's less space to use GDI shooters. and GDI needs the early-game advantage cos meds are more expensive.


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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405072 is a reply to message #404897] Fri, 02 October 2009 19:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Homey is currently offline  Homey
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Nod wins on J1 with a 1.4 to 1 ratio. So yes, it's a Nod map. Pointsfix has little effect on the outcome on this map. Likely because it's a map with a lot of building whoring and killing which works out the same with either pf/pb. A GDI advantage could be useful, at least on the airstrip side. The cave is alright, but with an arty you can aim down (like you do on hourglass) and hit the wf and splash right into GDI's base. Works with meds too, but not to the same extent. I think it should be fixed so you can splash down.

Homey
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405092 is a reply to message #405066] Sat, 03 October 2009 00:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EvilWhiteDragon is currently offline  EvilWhiteDragon
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liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 03 October 2009 03:42

dig me up some stats on which team wins more on mesa with the pointmod in place
ask crimson what the stats are for n00bstories (which uses the pointmod) for mesa
go ahead Smile

you can lol all over yourself if you figure it out


Wait till Seye sees your post. You can LOL all you want, the both of you. Renegade is one of the most balanced games ever. StealthEye and I once investegated the win/loss ratio for both teams on each map. End of the matter is that it is about 50-50. With pointfix it seems to be even closer to 50-50, but only marginally. Marginally because there wasn't much room for improvement anyway (1 or 2% perhaps)


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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405106 is a reply to message #404897] Sat, 03 October 2009 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ErroR is currently offline  ErroR
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Nod arty whores tuns, while a gdi hottie can run around and c4 the arties from the back WITHOUT them noticing, most of the time.
GDI can snipe from the side of the Nod bunker.
GDI can harv walk with a humvee, or without anything at all.
Nod can EASILY use a stank to get behind bar or wf while the agt shoots the Nod harv in the tun, then get behind wf, after it shoots the harv for the second time. C4 ref and shoot pp.
You can run with a nod LCG Bh to the bunker then the ref.

One thing i disagree with is the agt shooting the tower were weapons spawn.
But the rest it looks like quite balanced, also one of the most fun maps for me, with many people playing.
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405113 is a reply to message #405060] Sat, 03 October 2009 05:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie or NuneGa is currently offline  Jamie or NuneGa
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¤BLûεl4βêL¤ wrote on Sat, 03 October 2009 02:02

Nune wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 13:37

mesa is already a gdi map anyway most of the time.


LOL i used to !gameover NOW as GDI, i loved playing as NOD - fucking arty pressure is bs


mesa is freaking boring as gdi but two teams of decent players gdi can usually do just as well as nod if they can get control of the cave.

p.s @ spoony you can splash infantry if you shoot about 30 meters away from em. But its just luck if you do.


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[Updated on: Sat, 03 October 2009 05:08]

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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405243 is a reply to message #404897] Sun, 04 October 2009 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Herr Surth is currently offline  Herr Surth
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I would like to see this fixed, although it would probably indefinitely favour GDI. but we'd have to see.
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405247 is a reply to message #404897] Sun, 04 October 2009 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Yes, this fix would be a great addition.
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405254 is a reply to message #405092] Sun, 04 October 2009 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 03 October 2009 02:57

Wait till Seye sees your post. You can LOL all you want, the both of you. Renegade is one of the most balanced games ever. StealthEye and I once investegated the win/loss ratio for both teams on each map. End of the matter is that it is about 50-50. With pointfix it seems to be even closer to 50-50, but only marginally. Marginally because there wasn't much room for improvement anyway (1 or 2% perhaps)

where did you investigate? in renegade overall, like all of the servers combined? you're saying that every single map is almost perfectly 50-50? i really do have a hard time believing that, for a few reasons

you're welcome to change my mind with an explanation Razz


liquidv2
Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405256 is a reply to message #405254] Sun, 04 October 2009 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EvilWhiteDragon is currently offline  EvilWhiteDragon
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liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 04 October 2009 19:57

EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sat, 03 October 2009 02:57

Wait till Seye sees your post. You can LOL all you want, the both of you. Renegade is one of the most balanced games ever. StealthEye and I once investegated the win/loss ratio for both teams on each map. End of the matter is that it is about 50-50. With pointfix it seems to be even closer to 50-50, but only marginally. Marginally because there wasn't much room for improvement anyway (1 or 2% perhaps)

where did you investigate? in renegade overall, like all of the servers combined? you're saying that every single map is almost perfectly 50-50? i really do have a hard time believing that, for a few reasons

you're welcome to change my mind with an explanation Razz


We used the information provided by Crimson. The information we used was directly from the BHS xwis ladder.


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Re: Mesa deadzone fix [message #405258 is a reply to message #404897] Sun, 04 October 2009 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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cool, can i see it!

liquidv2
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