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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401272 is a reply to message #400864] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 02:07   |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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The answer is quite simple: harvesters. IF you play original renegade without starting credits (= clanwars settings), then you'll know that the first minutes of the game are crucial to the rest of the game.
With their rifles, GDI almost always have the upper hand on attacking the harvester, except of course on maps where the harv is behind the refinery. But then they still have the upperhand in tunnel fights most of the time.
If GDI has a better chance of killing the enemy harvester and saving theirs, they'll compensate the art : med difference, won't they?
Economy is very important in Renegade, but things like starting credits (to a lesser extend) and mostly the lack of pointfix (there we go again) already get in the way of this.
Making Nod's and GDI's soldiers doing equal damage will have a much bigger impact on this, though.
I'm not saying Westwood intended this or not, I'm not in their heads but by some small miracle Westwood managed to make this game about balanced. Every small "detail" counts in this.
You didn't yet answer my question about pointfix being implemented or not. Could you look into it?
Tbh you guys should check such things with Spoony or someone else from clanwars.cc. They're in a way better position than most people on this forum (including myself) to talk about balance issues.
It kind of frightens me to see this hasn't happened.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Wed, 02 September 2009 02:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401307 is a reply to message #400864] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 12:02 |
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Havoc 89
Messages: 500
Registered: February 2003
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If you honestly think that the Arty is better then the MRLS by a long shot then I just have to laugh at you. You clearly dont know how to use an MRLS.
At close range where you can get behind the mrls I can understand, but honestly I've never managed to get an artillery get behind my MRLS. As per getting behind the MRLS, we have already taking care of that where the alt fire will allow you to unlock your turret, alt fire once (after you unlocked it) will lock in whatever position, and double tap alt fire will position it back to how it was in ren with the initial locked position. MRLS missiles are easier to lock on but still require a little bit of skill. All the damage values are still the same (Other then the Nod AR) so actually the MRLS and artillery balance out very nicely. So that leaves an imbalance in the soldier battles, which is easily fixed by making the damage the same. So your explanation on how the GDI soldier some how balances out the Arty no longer applies because the MRLS is already balanced out with the Arty.
Now with that being said, I am well aware that GDI is more powerful but slow, and Nod is Faster but weaker, but when it comes to infintry, the only difference is that Gunner can deal more punch in a shorter amount of time, but Nod in return has the Laser ChainGunner which is far more superior to Patch. The whole thing with GDI being stronger and slower, and Nod being faster but weaker only really applies to the vehicles.
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401308 is a reply to message #400864] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 12:10 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Oh, I don't think it's better than the MRLS by THAT much, but in ren, it is pretty inferior. While battle-wise, it's not that much worse, the fact that is costs more really comes into play.
Glad to hear how the MRLS will work though, that gives it the versatility it needed.
I hope to see in the future though, you guys introduce the other 2 Nod vehicles that were left out of Renegade, and have the SSM and MRLS compete- rather than Artillery and MRLS.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401315 is a reply to message #401307] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 13:44 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Havoc 89 wrote on Wed, 02 September 2009 12:02 |
If you honestly think that the Arty is better then the MRLS by a long shot then I just have to laugh at you. You clearly dont know how to use an MRLS.
At close range where you can get behind the mrls I can understand, but honestly I've never managed to get an artillery get behind my MRLS. As per getting behind the MRLS, we have already taking care of that where the alt fire will allow you to unlock your turret, alt fire once (after you unlocked it) will lock in whatever position, and double tap alt fire will position it back to how it was in ren with the initial locked position. MRLS missiles are easier to lock on but still require a little bit of skill. All the damage values are still the same (Other then the Nod AR) so actually the MRLS and artillery balance out very nicely. So that leaves an imbalance in the soldier battles, which is easily fixed by making the damage the same. So your explanation on how the GDI soldier some how balances out the Arty no longer applies because the MRLS is already balanced out with the Arty.
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In any proper vehicle fight (Proper, meaning with proper repairs, of course), the arty has a huge advantage because of the absurd splash radius which makes it that much more difficult for supporting hotwires to stay out of the crossfire and still be in the tank's cover and protection. By comparison, the MLRS's splash is really pathetic. The only vehicle weapon that comes close is the Mammoth Tank's Tusk Missiles. Of course, what self-respecting artillery driver would let a mammy get so close?
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401319 is a reply to message #401149] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 14:11 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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Fobby[GEN] wrote on Tue, 01 September 2009 18:27]I understand your explanation, but I don't really see how a slightly stronger rifle magically balances with Nod's artillery advantage - especially since the damage difference between the rifles is so small, and the GDI soldier is something that is used very early on. Nod's advantage with the artillery sounds like something that needs to balanced between vehicles (like a better MRLS for example?), rather than nerfing the damage of basic infantry.
Anyways we'll be sure to test it out before release. Thanks for voicing your concerns.
And for the record, the main reason for open betas is to get little things like this right before an official release. With the difference in engine and physics, you're bound to run into at least a few differences; some of which could be fixed early on.
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The Rifle grants GDI an (small) advantage right at the start, when everyone is going for the harvs. As said GDI needs meds to counter the arts. GDI needs 2 surviving harvs for this, with the better rifle they can protect thiers better and attack the Nod one better. For the art/med battle to be "fair" the harv score needs to be 2-1 for GDI (harvs that unloaded).
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401329 is a reply to message #400864] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 17:58 |
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If you guys don't like how our game is balanced, you can always make a balance mod in the form of a mutator! Now, stop whining about all the little details and let us finish the fucking mod before getting all up in arms about such a SMALL FUCKING DETAIL.
| HORQWER wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 20:47 |
this is not a real renegade forums ,some one made it up
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Renegade Forums - Official Drama Perpetuator.
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401338 is a reply to message #400864] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 19:37 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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I don't think it's a complaint about balance in Renegade X, but rather a discussion as to why the damage differences existed in Renegade in the first place.
Also, I want to go back to a post Goz made about referencing the damage differences to the early game harvester rushes. I have to disagree with that point. This isn't APB. If infantry are forced to rush the enemy harvesters, then they aren't going to use their autorifles to do so. C4 would be the weapon of choice. And even if they do decide to use their autorifles to gain some extra points before it dies, at the end of the day, the harvesters were still destroyed and/or heavily damaged due to the C4.
[Updated on: Wed, 02 September 2009 19:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401340 is a reply to message #401329] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 19:57 |
dr3w2
Messages: 485
Registered: September 2006
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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| JeepRubi wrote on Wed, 02 September 2009 19:58 |
If you guys don't like how our game is balanced, you can always make a balance mod in the form of a mutator! Now, stop whining about all the little details and let us finish the fucking mod before getting all up in arms about such a SMALL FUCKING DETAIL.
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Like a boss.
I agree with JeepRubi by far. No matter what some motherfuckers are going to be so picky about every little detail even if the overall result is absolutely amazing. Can't wait for this!
n00bstories Server Administrator
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401341 is a reply to message #401338] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 19:57 |
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Ethenal
Messages: 2532
Registered: January 2007
Location: US of A
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 02 September 2009 21:37 |
Also, I want to go back to a post Goz made about referencing the damage differences to the early game harvester rushes. I have to disagree with that point. This isn't APB. If infantry are forced to rush the enemy harvesters, then they aren't going to use their autorifles to do so. C4 would be the weapon of choice. And even if they do decide to use their autorifles to gain some extra points before it dies, at the end of the day, the harvesters were still destroyed and/or heavily damaged due to the C4.[/color]
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Okay, you've definitely never played in a server with no starting credits.
He does not mean GDI gains the advantage so they can destroy the harvester faster, he means that they gain the advantage in PREVENTING NOD from destroying their harvester and allowing them to destroy Nod's own. The GDI soldier has a more powerful rifle and the Nod soldier's head is bigger because it gives GDI an advantage in defending the harvester.
I guess it's true: nobody on renforums plays renegade.
| -TLS-DJ-EYE-K wrote on Mon, 18 March 2013 07:29 |
Instead of showing us that u aren't more inteligent than a Toast, maybe you should start becomming good in renegade 
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401344 is a reply to message #400864] |
Wed, 02 September 2009 20:57 |
Homey
Messages: 1084
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Really when it comes down to balancing the game, let's not follow renegade step by step as it's a different engine and may have different gameplay. As long as the guys at RenX balance it so nod and gdi have an equal chance at winning that's what matters. That's also why this is a BETA to see how these things turn out.
Homey
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401369 is a reply to message #401368] |
Thu, 03 September 2009 04:14 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| ErroR wrote on Thu, 03 September 2009 13:05 |
1-2 buggyes still come and kill half/all of the soldiers
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2-3 rifles own a buggy in a few seconds... So there go your 300 credits...
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401386 is a reply to message #400864] |
Thu, 03 September 2009 07:07 |
dommafia
Messages: 37
Registered: September 2003
Location: USA
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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can't wait for this, hopefully those that don't have ut3 will buy it. I bought on Steam for like 5$ just for this mod 
everyone should try their best to spread the word to their old renegade gaming buddies that may have moved on to other games. At least to give it a try so we can have a somewhat populated game.
shoutout to my renegade demo buddies that remember me and St0rm servers
[Updated on: Thu, 03 September 2009 07:08] Report message to a moderator |
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and if it's not a 20v20 server it can pretty much whore the harv
