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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #400866 is a reply to message #400864] |
Sun, 30 August 2009 15:43   |
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[NE]Fobby[GEN]
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| pawkyfox wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 18:39 |
Will the basic assault rifles for Nod and GDI soldiers do equal damage? I hope so...so it's equal and the player with better aim wins.
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Yes they are equal, and as you may have noticed the Nod soldier's head isn't big like in Renegade.
Unreal Tournament 3 Total Conversion to C&C: Renegade
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #400867 is a reply to message #400864] |
Sun, 30 August 2009 15:45 |
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R315r4z0r
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How does that balance out?
If GDI had a stronger rifle, and Nod's infantry had bigger heads, doesn't that mean Nod got hit with a double wammy? GDI could do more damage and have a larger target to hit.
I could understand if Nod had the stronger rifle to makeup for the larger heads, but that isn't the case.
[Updated on: Sun, 30 August 2009 15:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401111 is a reply to message #401089] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 04:44 |
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Spoony
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i hope i don't need to explain why gdi had better base infantry...
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401113 is a reply to message #400866] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 05:07 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
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Fobby[GEN] wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 00:43]| pawkyfox wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 18:39 |
Will the basic assault rifles for Nod and GDI soldiers do equal damage? I hope so...so it's equal and the player with better aim wins.
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Yes they are equal, and as you may have noticed the Nod soldier's head isn't big like in Renegade.
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You have considered that there is a reason for GDI doing more damage with soldiers?
I think they do more damage with rifles for the simple reason that the GDI vehicles are way more expensive than the Nod vehicles.
For example,
a teched art vs a teched mrls = art wins
an art vs MRLS = art wins most of the time
an art vs Med = about equal chances overall, but the med is 350 credits more than the art.
An teched art vs Med = med losses big time, while they are the same in price.
An teched art vs 2 meds = art in trouble, but still has a small chance (800 vs 1600 creds!)
Certainly at the start of a match where people fight for the harvester it is crucial that GDI is a little bit better, simply because they will probably need to save 2 harvesters while Nod only needs to save 1 harvester. For this reason GDI has more cheap fire power.
I hope you've well tested this damage change, or adjusted pirces for vehicles as well...
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401117 is a reply to message #400864] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 05:22 |
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Goztow
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General (5 Stars)
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EWD is right. There's a reason why GDI's rifle does more damage.
Also: did you "implement" point fix or did you recreate the corrupted point system standard Renegade has?
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401118 is a reply to message #401111] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 05:24 |
jimmyny
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 01 September 2009 06:44 |
i hope i don't need to explain why gdi had better base infantry...
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anyone else here waiting with anticipation for a 500 line lecture from spoony?
EDIT : also goztoe, the "point mod" still has rubbish points gain. all thats needed to change from standard ren points is the ramjet getting less points vs armour IMO, leave everything else
[Updated on: Tue, 01 September 2009 05:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401119 is a reply to message #401118] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 05:32 |
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Goztow
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Goztoe |
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| jimmyny wrote on Tue, 01 September 2009 14:24 |
EDIT : also goztoe, the "point mod" still has rubbish points gain. all thats needed to change from standard ren points is the ramjet getting less points vs armour IMO, leave everything else
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Your arguments are stunning.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401121 is a reply to message #401119] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 05:50 |
jimmyny
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| Goztow wrote on Tue, 01 September 2009 07:32 |
| jimmyny wrote on Tue, 01 September 2009 14:24 |
EDIT : also goztoe, the "point mod" still has rubbish points gain. all thats needed to change from standard ren points is the ramjet getting less points vs armour IMO, leave everything else
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Your arguments are stunning.
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ditto
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401122 is a reply to message #400864] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 05:56 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
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Goztoe |
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I was thinking of writing down arguments once again but decided it's for the best of this topic not to do this.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401129 is a reply to message #401113] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 07:05 |
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Starbuzzz
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Tue, 01 September 2009 07:07 |
| [NE |
Fobby[GEN] wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 00:43]| pawkyfox wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 18:39 |
Will the basic assault rifles for Nod and GDI soldiers do equal damage? I hope so...so it's equal and the player with better aim wins.
|
Yes they are equal, and as you may have noticed the Nod soldier's head isn't big like in Renegade.
|
You have considered that there is a reason for GDI doing more damage with soldiers?
I think they do more damage with rifles for the simple reason that the GDI vehicles are way more expensive than the Nod vehicles.
For example,
a teched art vs a teched mrls = art wins
an art vs MRLS = art wins most of the time
an art vs Med = about equal chances overall, but the med is 350 credits more than the art.
An teched art vs Med = med losses big time, while they are the same in price.
An teched art vs 2 meds = art in trouble, but still has a small chance (800 vs 1600 creds!)
Certainly at the start of a match where people fight for the harvester it is crucial that GDI is a little bit better, simply because they will probably need to save 2 harvesters while Nod only needs to save 1 harvester. For this reason GDI has more cheap fire power.
I hope you've well tested this damage change, or adjusted pirces for vehicles as well...
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Makes sense.
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401133 is a reply to message #401129] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 07:23 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
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Location: The Netherlands
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| pawkyfox wrote on Tue, 01 September 2009 16:05 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Tue, 01 September 2009 07:07 |
| [NE |
Fobby[GEN] wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 00:43]| pawkyfox wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 18:39 |
Will the basic assault rifles for Nod and GDI soldiers do equal damage? I hope so...so it's equal and the player with better aim wins.
|
Yes they are equal, and as you may have noticed the Nod soldier's head isn't big like in Renegade.
|
You have considered that there is a reason for GDI doing more damage with soldiers?
I think they do more damage with rifles for the simple reason that the GDI vehicles are way more expensive than the Nod vehicles.
For example,
a teched art vs a teched mrls = art wins
an art vs MRLS = art wins most of the time
an art vs Med = about equal chances overall, but the med is 350 credits more than the art.
An teched art vs Med = med losses big time, while they are the same in price.
An teched art vs 2 meds = art in trouble, but still has a small chance (800 vs 1600 creds!)
Certainly at the start of a match where people fight for the harvester it is crucial that GDI is a little bit better, simply because they will probably need to save 2 harvesters while Nod only needs to save 1 harvester. For this reason GDI has more cheap fire power.
I hope you've well tested this damage change, or adjusted pirces for vehicles as well...
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Makes sense.
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Kinda, anyway, it's because of these small little things that renegade plays this good, and I am kinda worried they'll get that wrong in RenX, possibly ruining the gameplay.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401149 is a reply to message #400864] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 09:27 |
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[NE]Fobby[GEN]
Messages: 1377
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I understand your explanation, but I don't really see how a slightly stronger rifle magically balances with Nod's artillery advantage - especially since the damage difference between the rifles is so small, and the GDI soldier is something that is used very early on. Nod's advantage with the artillery sounds like something that needs to balanced between vehicles (like a better MRLS for example?), rather than nerfing the damage of basic infantry.
Anyways we'll be sure to test it out before release. Thanks for voicing your concerns.
And for the record, the main reason for open betas is to get little things like this right before an official release. With the difference in engine and physics, you're bound to run into at least a few differences; some of which could be fixed early on.
Unreal Tournament 3 Total Conversion to C&C: Renegade
Check out Renegade X Today!
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[Updated on: Tue, 01 September 2009 09:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401153 is a reply to message #401151] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 10:05 |
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Starbuzzz
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Registered: June 2008
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| Ryan3k wrote on Tue, 01 September 2009 11:37 |
fobby is correct. just as you don't fix a headache by taking an antacid, you don't correct a vehicle imbalance problem by giving GDI basic inf a slightly better gun.
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lol wrong analogy...a better analogy will be that it is a small cancer that has the potential to spread and affect all over the body.
Looking at EWD's post, this will affect who gets vehicles first and is related to pricing as well.
But since this is open beta I am sure they can fix any imbalances they find and patch em up as they release the other parts.
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401154 is a reply to message #400864] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 10:18 |
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reborn
Messages: 3231
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Location: uk - london
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I didn't realise that it wasn't going to be an exact translation from renegade. I assumed the warhead types, damage multipliers, damage values, credits gained, health, armor values and all that stuff was going to be a precise copy.
So it could be that the end product looks like renegade, only much much better, has the CNC mode like renegade, but the balance could be quite different, meaning different strats and techniques must be employed?
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401159 is a reply to message #401154] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 10:38 |
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[NE]Fobby[GEN]
Messages: 1377
Registered: July 2004
Location: Canada
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General (1 Star) |
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| reborn wrote on Tue, 01 September 2009 13:18 |
I didn't realise that it wasn't going to be an exact translation from renegade. I assumed the warhead types, damage multipliers, damage values, credits gained, health, armor values and all that stuff was going to be a precise copy.
So it could be that the end product looks like renegade, only much much better, has the CNC mode like renegade, but the balance could be quite different, meaning different strats and techniques must be employed?
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This is actually the only damage value that is different right now. Like I said though, it will be tested prior to the beta release with Renegade's rifle damage.
Unreal Tournament 3 Total Conversion to C&C: Renegade
Check out Renegade X Today!
Mod Wars Veteran
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| Re: Renegade X - Pre-Release Update! [message #401162 is a reply to message #400864] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 10:49 |
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Do seriously consider the alternative if you suddenly find that Nod has a 15-20 minute win, most of the time. (Balanced firepower leads to both teams getting vehicles, Nod wins field w/ teched arts then proceeds to win the game)
A server I once played on tried this, it caused a few problems, but as we were a Marathon server, it didn't matter that Nod could (almost) always get the eraly field and seige, points were irrelevant. Not quite the same on AOW.
Meh, we shall see. This can be discussed forever in theory, let's wait and see.
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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