Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Politics - double split
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #400910 is a reply to message #400795] |
Sun, 30 August 2009 21:06   |
spotelmo
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| darkdragon wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 10:07 |
umm you do relies the USA murder rate is mostly drug dealers killing other drug dealers and people getting caught in the crossfire . It's the law that caused that problem not the other way around . look up what happened the last prohibition and why we stopped it. If you find we stopped it for any other reason then it doesn't work and it caused far more problems then it solved let me know.
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that logic is hugely flawed. by your logic, if we made stealing legal, there'd be no one in prison for theft. maybe we should make unwilling sex legal to clear the prison of all those rapists?
there are plenty of us law abiding citizens who would rather not be subject to the behaviour of dumbasses legally walking around the city while high on crack.
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #400943 is a reply to message #400910] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 06:28 |
darkdragon
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| spotelmo wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 23:06 |
| darkdragon wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 10:07 |
umm you do relies the USA murder rate is mostly drug dealers killing other drug dealers and people getting caught in the crossfire . It's the law that caused that problem not the other way around . look up what happened the last prohibition and why we stopped it. If you find we stopped it for any other reason then it doesn't work and it caused far more problems then it solved let me know.
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that logic is hugely flawed. by your logic, if we made stealing legal, there'd be no one in prison for theft. maybe we should make unwilling sex legal to clear the prison of all those rapists?
there are plenty of us law abiding citizens who would rather not be subject to the behaviour of dumbasses legally walking around the city while high on crack.
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no by that logic if we made cigarettes illegal it would one raise the murder rate and two clog the court and prison systems with non violent victimless criminals.
Somethings cause more crime when made illegal like when we banned alcohol.
I suggest you read up before claiming any prohibition makes us safer in any way shape or form.
http://www.drugwarfaq.com/
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1017&full=1
prohibition feed the black market which raises the crime rate in every way which in turns makes the streets less safe. Our gang problem is caused by the war on drugs it is not caused by the drugs themselves. I'd rather have afew crack heads walking around peacefully then thousands of gang members pushing said crack and shooting people who are wearing the wrong color.
that's the problem with people too stupid to learn from the past. If something didn't work the first time and it's not working the secant time maybe it's time to try something else.
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #400963 is a reply to message #400943] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 09:36 |
kadoosh
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| darkdragon wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 09:28 |
If something didn't work the first time and it's not working the secant time maybe it's time to try something else.
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I'm not even kidding on this comment. Bring back Public Executions. All executions will be carried out the friday following the 1 and only apeal allowed by new law. You murder someone, get convicted at your trial, apeal and lose, die. None of this "Life in prison" shit.
[Updated on: Mon, 31 August 2009 09:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #400973 is a reply to message #400963] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 11:17 |
darkdragon
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| kadoosh wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 11:36 |
| darkdragon wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 09:28 |
If something didn't work the first time and it's not working the secant time maybe it's time to try something else.
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I'm not even kidding on this comment. Bring back Public Executions. All executions will be carried out the friday following the 1 and only apeal allowed by new law. You murder someone, get convicted at your trial, apeal and lose, die. None of this "Life in prison" shit.
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That wouldn't work much better then the normal death penalty. personally I say it's wrong to kill a person no matter what .
You say it's a deterrent to crime prove it all the statistics say the death penalty doesn't do shit to deter anything.
By the way read a fucking history book sometime that shits been tried and it didn't really work.
[Updated on: Mon, 31 August 2009 11:19] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #400978 is a reply to message #400820] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 12:25 |
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Ryan3k
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| kadoosh |
I'm not even kidding on this comment. Bring back Public Executions. All executions will be carried out the friday following the 1 and only apeal allowed by new law. You murder someone, get convicted at your trial, apeal and lose, die. None of this "Life in prison" shit.
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| Ryan3k wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 12:13 |
i think crimson should just delete this debate forum just like we did over at apathbeyond. i've never seen more overly-opinionated teenagers on issues they know nothing about than in the renegade community.
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i rest my case. why dont you move to iran you psychopathic prick? (**NWS**...but hey, in kadoosh's world it would be!  )
oh, and i don't care if your actual age is 14 or 15, an alarming number of people here seem to have that level of mental maturity, regardless of their age. and, as always, the people who get most defensive about this are the ones who know it's true.
in other words, if i'm referring to you, you'll know it.
A Path Beyond
[Updated on: Mon, 31 August 2009 12:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #401004 is a reply to message #400943] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 14:42 |
spotelmo
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| darkdragon wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 09:28 |
| spotelmo wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 23:06 |
| darkdragon wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 10:07 |
umm you do relies the USA murder rate is mostly drug dealers killing other drug dealers and people getting caught in the crossfire . It's the law that caused that problem not the other way around . look up what happened the last prohibition and why we stopped it. If you find we stopped it for any other reason then it doesn't work and it caused far more problems then it solved let me know.
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that logic is hugely flawed. by your logic, if we made stealing legal, there'd be no one in prison for theft. maybe we should make unwilling sex legal to clear the prison of all those rapists?
there are plenty of us law abiding citizens who would rather not be subject to the behaviour of dumbasses legally walking around the city while high on crack.
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no by that logic if we made cigarettes illegal it would one raise the murder rate and two clog the court and prison systems with non violent victimless criminals.
Somethings cause more crime when made illegal like when we banned alcohol.
I suggest you read up before claiming any prohibition makes us safer in any way shape or form.
http://www.drugwarfaq.com/
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1017&full=1
prohibition feed the black market which raises the crime rate in every way which in turns makes the streets less safe. Our gang problem is caused by the war on drugs it is not caused by the drugs themselves. I'd rather have afew crack heads walking around peacefully then thousands of gang members pushing said crack and shooting people who are wearing the wrong color.
that's the problem with people too stupid to learn from the past. If something didn't work the first time and it's not working the secant time maybe it's time to try something else.
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there are some things that are extremely addictive and alter personalities enough that they are illegal because it is in the public good to not have people using them. most illegal drugs fall in this category. i would probably be willing to accept the argument that pot is no different than alcohol and can be made legal. but other drugs like crack, powder cocaine, meth are hugely addictive and alter personalities to the point of making addicts a danger to society. therefore, those should remain illegal.
as for crime rates. people would continue to kill and steal because the drugs are addictive and when a person can't hold a job due to his habit, he will still commit crime to get his drugs.
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #401025 is a reply to message #401004] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 17:51 |
darkdragon
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Wait alcohol isn't addictive and doesn't change peoples personalities. What world do you live in?
Pot is lesser then even caffeine in danger and far lesser then alcohol. Alcohol kills more people each year then all illegal drugs combined . Hell Advil kills more people then most illegal drugs.
There is a reason I don't drink spot.
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #401044 is a reply to message #401037] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 18:40 |
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Dover
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| kadoosh wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 18:31 |
I had a nice thought out responce to Ryan3k, but I'm not going to post it due to me being a "psychopathic prick". Congrats on taking what I said and massivly blowing it out of context.
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There are only so many ways to interpret what you posted.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Politics - double split [message #401067 is a reply to message #401039] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 20:31 |
darkdragon
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the funny thing is it's not just the American economy that is fucked right now it's the global economy. just wait in 15 to 20 years from now oil will be on a down hill slide and the economy will collapse completely after all it is based on oil.
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #401070 is a reply to message #401025] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 20:42 |
spotelmo
Messages: 273
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| darkdragon wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:51 |
Wait alcohol isn't addictive and doesn't change peoples personalities. What world do you live in?
Pot is lesser then even caffeine in danger and far lesser then alcohol. Alcohol kills more people each year then all illegal drugs combined . Hell Advil kills more people then most illegal drugs.
There is a reason I don't drink spot.
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alcohol doesn't change everyone's personalities and isn't addictive to everyone. for example, i can have an occasional drink and not get addicted, not drive drunk, not steal to support my drinking habit. some people can't do that. as for alcohol killing more people than all illegal drugs combined, i would say that is a misleading statistic. you'd have to know the underlying cause of all deaths to be able to prove that. for example, do you count all deaths related to drunk driving as an alcohol death? do you count all people killed in drive by shootings due to drug gang activity as a "other" illegal drug death?
i would also suggest that another reason alcohol is legal(here) but other drugs are not is because of
#1 big business - many people from bar owners to waitresses to distillers would be out of business.
#2 taxes - government makes big cash off of alcohol(same to be said for cigarettes)
#3 the guys in charge don't want to stop drinking - can you imagine telling people like ted kennedy(when alive), tip oneill and joe biden that they can't drink anymore?
#4 the relative ease of regulating and taxing alcohol over other illegal drugs
just a few reasons why alcohol and cigarettes are legal while meth is not.
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| Re: Politics - double split [message #401071 is a reply to message #401067] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 20:47 |
spotelmo
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| darkdragon wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 23:31 |
the funny thing is it's not just the American economy that is fucked right now it's the global economy. just wait in 15 to 20 years from now oil will be on a down hill slide and the economy will collapse completely after all it is based on oil.
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funny you should mention that. do you know that according to our government inflation is currently flat? supposedly, there is no inflation currently. the main reason for that is because a big chunk of the data used to determine that is energy costs. since oil prices have been stable lately, they determine that there is no inflation.
i have a wife and four kids. the biggest cost i have right now is groceries. i'm currently spending approximately $350 per week in groceries. just 1 year ago, it was about $200 - $250 per week. a year before that, it was maybe $150 - $200 per week.
NO INFLATION MY ASS!
just goes to show that the numbers show whatever our friends in washington want them to show.
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #401072 is a reply to message #401070] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 20:49 |
darkdragon
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| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 22:42 |
| darkdragon wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:51 |
Wait alcohol isn't addictive and doesn't change peoples personalities. What world do you live in?
Pot is lesser then even caffeine in danger and far lesser then alcohol. Alcohol kills more people each year then all illegal drugs combined . Hell Advil kills more people then most illegal drugs.
There is a reason I don't drink spot.
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alcohol doesn't change everyone's personalities and isn't addictive to everyone. for example, i can have an occasional drink and not get addicted, not drive drunk, not steal to support my drinking habit. some people can't do that. as for alcohol killing more people than all illegal drugs combined, i would say that is a misleading statistic. you'd have to know the underlying cause of all deaths to be able to prove that. for example, do you count all deaths related to drunk driving as an alcohol death? do you count all people killed in drive by shootings due to drug gang activity as a "other" illegal drug death?
i would also suggest that another reason alcohol is legal(here) but other drugs are not is because of
#1 big business - many people from bar owners to waitresses to distillers would be out of business.
#2 taxes - government makes big cash off of alcohol(same to be said for cigarettes)
#3 the guys in charge don't want to stop drinking - can you imagine telling people like ted kennedy(when alive), tip oneill and joe biden that they can't drink anymore?
#4 the relative ease of regulating and taxing alcohol over other illegal drugs
just a few reasons why alcohol and cigarettes are legal while meth is not.
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yeah and some people can do crack and not be addictive to it and not go off killing people.
By the way drunk driving gang driveby comparison is flawed. The drunk driver is under the influence of alcohol and the gang members doing the shooting more then likely not under the influence of the drug they are selling . most of them don't in fact use the drugs they are peddling . Also the problem of the fact the drugs are illegal in the first place causing said drive by shootings .
[Updated on: Mon, 31 August 2009 20:51] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #401073 is a reply to message #401070] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 20:59 |
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Dover
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| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:42 |
alcohol doesn't change everyone's personalities and isn't addictive to everyone. for example, i can have an occasional drink and not get addicted, not drive drunk, not steal to support my drinking habit. some people can't do that.
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The same could be said for pot.
| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:42 |
#1 big business - many people from bar owners to waitresses to distillers would be out of business.
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The potential is there for pot, too, as nations that have it legalized have shown.
| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:42 |
#2 taxes - government makes big cash off of alcohol(same to be said for cigarettes)
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See above.
| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:42 |
#3 the guys in charge don't want to stop drinking - can you imagine telling people like ted kennedy(when alive), tip oneill and joe biden that they can't drink anymore?
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I'll ignore the snipe at democrats, there. Can't you leave Ted Kennedy alone even after his death?
In any case, the people in charge speak for their constitutants. There (Rightly) isn't the public will to try prohibition again, as history has proven that it just doesn't work. This applies for Republicans, too; I don't see any of them pushing for heavily alcohol regulation.
| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:42 |
#4 the relative ease of regulating and taxing alcohol over other illegal drugs
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Care to expand on this?
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #401075 is a reply to message #401073] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 21:32 |
spotelmo
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| Dover wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 23:59 |
| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:42 |
alcohol doesn't change everyone's personalities and isn't addictive to everyone. for example, i can have an occasional drink and not get addicted, not drive drunk, not steal to support my drinking habit. some people can't do that.
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The same could be said for pot.
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which is why i said above that the case for pot can be made without much objection from me
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| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:42 |
#1 big business - many people from bar owners to waitresses to distillers would be out of business.
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The potential is there for pot, too, as nations that have it legalized have shown.
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see above
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| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:42 |
#2 taxes - government makes big cash off of alcohol(same to be said for cigarettes)
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See above.
| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:42 |
#3 the guys in charge don't want to stop drinking - can you imagine telling people like ted kennedy(when alive), tip oneill and joe biden that they can't drink anymore?
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I'll ignore the snipe at democrats, there. Can't you leave Ted Kennedy alone even after his death?
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no, i can't leave ted alone. not after the crap he tried to pull right before his death. trying to ensure that a democrat takes over his seat when just a few years ago he got the law changed because he was worried a then-republican governor would appoint a republican.
as for the fact that the three i mentioned are all democrats, probably a sub conscious thing. same can be said for newt gingrich, mike steele, lee terry and other republicans
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In any case, the people in charge speak for their constitutants. There (Rightly) isn't the public will to try prohibition again, as history has proven that it just doesn't work. This applies for Republicans, too; I don't see any of them pushing for heavily alcohol regulation.
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gotta disagree there. tarp, stimulus package and health care debate all show that this isn't true.
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| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 20:42 |
#4 the relative ease of regulating and taxing alcohol over other illegal drugs
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Care to expand on this?
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it's easier to regulate cigarettes and alcohol because it's easy to put a tax stamp on both and put them in a convenience store. we know who's producing/importing them, and it's pretty much world wide legal to sell them.
meth on the other hand is produced in the trunk of some moron's car. likely won't be sold on the shelves of your local grocery store, and isn't legal anywhere that i know of.
cocaine and heroin is mostly produced by drug lords in south america and afghanistan and even if America made them legal, other countries won't and the drug wars would continue.
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #401076 is a reply to message #401075] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 21:49 |
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Dover
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[quote title=spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 21:32]| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 21:32 |
no, i can't leave ted alone. not after the crap he tried to pull right before his death. trying to ensure that a democrat takes over his seat when just a few years ago he got the law changed because he was worried a then-republican governor would appoint a republican.
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Welcome to politics. He is neither the first nor will he be the last to pull stunts like that. If you hold grudges against politicians for something so relatively petty, you're going to have to hate almost every politician in the world on a personal level. I don't know about you, but I don't have the energy for that.
By the way, trying to influence who gets your seat after you seems so small and insignificant compared to preemptive wars, lying to the public about WMDs, breaking the Geneva convention, etc etc, yet most Republicans wouldn't dare call Bush out on any of these much more serious offenses. Be honest with me. It's not about Ted Kennedy; it's about what he represents (Represented?). It's just more partisan bullshit rather than any specific grievance.
| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 21:32 |
as for the fact that the three i mentioned are all democrats, probably a sub conscious thing. same can be said for newt gingrich, mike steele, lee terry and other republicans
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At least I'm glad you can admit it. Now you need to work on fixing it.
| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 21:32 |
gotta disagree there. tarp, stimulus package and health care debate all show that this isn't true.
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I'm not sure what you're getting at here. What does that have to do with prohibition?
| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 21:32 |
it's easier to regulate cigarettes and alcohol because it's easy to put a tax stamp on both and put them in a convenience store. we know who's producing/importing them, and it's pretty much world wide legal to sell them.
meth on the other hand is produced in the trunk of some moron's car. likely won't be sold on the shelves of your local grocery store, and isn't legal anywhere that i know of.
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You're stating facts but you're not stating WHY. Meth is made in some moron's car precisely because it's illegal. History shows that it's the same with alcohol. In fact, you could point to alchohol that's still illegal (Moonshine) and see that people are still making in home-made since they can't purchase it legally. There's nothing special about Meth in this sense.
| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 21:32 |
cocaine and heroin is mostly produced by drug lords in south america and afghanistan and even if America made them legal, other countries won't and the drug wars would continue.
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What? The US is the only country that allocates resources on the "War on drugs". Without the US, there is no Drug War.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Splitting the record - about the virtual lock [message #401077 is a reply to message #401075] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 21:49 |
darkdragon
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| spotelmo wrote on Mon, 31 August 2009 23:32 |
Care to expand on this?
it's easier to regulate cigarettes and alcohol because it's easy to put a tax stamp on both and put them in a convenience store. we know who's producing/importing them, and it's pretty much world wide legal to sell them.
meth on the other hand is produced in the trunk of some moron's car. likely won't be sold on the shelves of your local grocery store, and isn't legal anywhere that i know of.
cocaine and heroin is mostly produced by drug lords in south america and afghanistan and even if America made them legal, other countries won't and the drug wars would continue.
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yeah but without our money and our blood. By the way why is it those drugs are made that way ?
You bitch about how much people pay in taxes the war on drugs dumps 40 billion <(fed and state combined) a year down a rat hole where we'll never see it again.
That is money that could be used for far better things for the American people like oh healthcare.
[Updated on: Mon, 31 August 2009 21:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Politics - double split [message #401078 is a reply to message #400120] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 22:02 |
spotelmo
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i would prefer they keep spending the money on the drug war instead of spending it on healthcare - or anything else.
meth will never be made in a factory and packaged in little boxes like cigarettes or alcohol. doesn't matter if it's legal or not.
kennedy's little thing of trying to keep his seat in his party's control is - like you said - one of many things our politicans do. and it's because we let them do it that they keep doing it. it's time to hold our politicans to a better standard than what we've historically held them to. this goes the same for both sides.
i'm going to ignore the liberal party line about crap about bush that isn't even close to accurate for now. we can always start another thread about that bull if you'd like but i'm kinda busy right now doing work related stuff.
the tarp, stimilus, health care debate has nothing to do with prohibition, it has to do with the conversation about our politicians working for their constituents.
working now, gnite(probably)
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| Re: Politics - double split [message #401079 is a reply to message #401078] |
Mon, 31 August 2009 22:08 |
darkdragon
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ok i'm bowing out of this for one dover is far better at making my points on this matter anyway and for two it doesn't matter how many facts we show you you'll never accept them because you truly do believe that drugs are illegal because they are dangerous and not dangerous because they are illegal
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| Re: Politics - double split [message #401088 is a reply to message #400120] |
Tue, 01 September 2009 02:06 |
spotelmo
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you're absolutely right. i believe drugs are illegal because they are dangerous. you can argue that not as many people would be shooting each otehr if drugs were legal, but that doesn't change the fact that the use of the drugs is dangerous to the person taking them and to the rest of society.
if drugs were legal, there would be more people using them and more people addicted to them and more cost to the rest of society as we deal with the addicts.
also consider that it isn't likely that drugs would be made legal for children even if they were made legal for adults so there would still be illegal drug sales and there would still be gangs and there would still be killing.
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