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Re: Question for Christians [message #390236 is a reply to message #390187]

Thu, 11 June 2009 19:27

Altzan
Messages: 1586
Registered: September 2008
Location: Tennessee

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General (1 Star)

Dover wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 14:23

I'm not calling for proof. I'm calling for your reasoning behind your beliefs. I'm willing to settle for something short of reproducible scientific results, I'm just looking for something more than "Everyone else I know is doing it, I should too."

Well, that isn't what I said. That isn't my sole reason. And I can't really go into my reasons in further detail. What I wrote is what I wrote.

Dover wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 14:23

I think you misunderstand my motivations here. I'm not trying to convince you of anything--you're just text on a screen for me. I'm just trying to gain a little more insight into the mind of a Christian, and maybe share a little thought experiment with you in the process. You can dig your heels in and give the typical reaction when these conversations reach this point ("HA HA YOU CAN'T CONVERT ME!!1!"), or you can let your mind wander and actually consider the things being said. I promise God won't smite you for it.

If that really is the reason for your questions, then no hard feelings. My 'hostility' is more a defense against Spoony's equally hostile grip to atheism. And believe me - I am considering what you both are saying. I just don't agree with some of it - not because of 'digging in my heels', but because I just don't agree. Similar to some of my ideas and thoughts being rejected by you two. Makes sense.

Dover wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 14:23

And you're right, you shouldn't be worried about hell, even if you are, I suspect your God wouldn't approve anyway. If you're a good person for the sake of avoiding punishment, you're really not a good person after all. This kind of thinking is indicative of the lowest stages of Lawrence Kohlberg's theory in moral development. Even infants avoid punishment and pain by reflex, yet it's a sign of a mature and well-developed individual to do the right thing, regardless of punishment or reward involved (Something Kohlberg terms "Principled consciousness")

Speaking in terms of my belief in such a place, I am afraid of hell, because nobody is perfect and I am no exception. I've done things that would earn my ticket to hell had I not repented of them. and even though that fear is half the reason for my behaviour, it isn't the whole.

I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire

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		Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 12:24
		Re: Question for Christians By: cnc95fan on Sun, 10 May 2009 13:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:16
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 11 May 2009 02:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 11 May 2009 03:22
		Re: Question for Christians By: u6795 on Mon, 11 May 2009 03:37
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 11 May 2009 07:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Mon, 11 May 2009 07:59
		Re: Question for Christians By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Tue, 12 May 2009 16:52
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 13 May 2009 04:00
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: _SSnipe_ on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:33
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: futura83 on Sun, 10 May 2009 15:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 15:59
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Mon, 11 May 2009 02:32
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 10 May 2009 19:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 10 May 2009 22:47
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 19:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 10 May 2009 21:41
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 22:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Sun, 10 May 2009 22:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Mon, 11 May 2009 08:16
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Mon, 11 May 2009 10:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Mon, 11 May 2009 11:13
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 11 May 2009 16:28
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 11 May 2009 18:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 11 May 2009 18:02
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 11 May 2009 19:29
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 12 May 2009 14:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Tue, 12 May 2009 14:42
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 12 May 2009 18:59
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Tue, 12 May 2009 22:05
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 13 May 2009 17:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Wed, 13 May 2009 18:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Wed, 13 May 2009 20:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Mon, 11 May 2009 19:34
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 12 May 2009 17:57
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 12 May 2009 20:21
		Re: Question for Christians By: The Party on Mon, 18 May 2009 09:53
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 19 May 2009 06:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Tue, 19 May 2009 06:36
		Re: Question for Christians By: Muad Dib15 on Tue, 12 May 2009 20:47
		Re: Question for Christians By: Ma1kel on Mon, 18 May 2009 09:46
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 18 May 2009 10:36
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sat, 23 May 2009 18:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sun, 24 May 2009 20:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 25 May 2009 22:24
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 26 May 2009 18:07
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Tue, 26 May 2009 23:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: Starbuzzz on Wed, 27 May 2009 20:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 27 May 2009 21:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sat, 23 May 2009 21:45
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 24 May 2009 11:07
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 25 May 2009 08:34
		Re: Question for Christians By: u6795 on Mon, 25 May 2009 19:03
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Mon, 25 May 2009 22:50
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 26 May 2009 18:54
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		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 27 May 2009 18:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 26 May 2009 21:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 06:50
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 28 May 2009 08:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 28 May 2009 09:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 28 May 2009 23:43
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		Re: Question for Christians By: Starbuzzz on Fri, 29 May 2009 04:49
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 29 May 2009 06:08
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 08:33
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 28 May 2009 14:31
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 08:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Thu, 28 May 2009 09:18
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 09:55
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Thu, 28 May 2009 10:05
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 14:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 28 May 2009 19:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Thu, 28 May 2009 23:12
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 19:39
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Thu, 28 May 2009 20:09
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Thu, 28 May 2009 20:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Thu, 28 May 2009 21:13
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 28 May 2009 21:08
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 21:31
		Re: Question for Christians By: halo2pac on Fri, 29 May 2009 11:22
		Re: Question for Christians By: IAmFenix on Wed, 03 June 2009 17:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 04 June 2009 08:37
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Thu, 04 June 2009 12:24
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Fri, 05 June 2009 11:15
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 05 June 2009 16:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Fri, 05 June 2009 21:25
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sat, 06 June 2009 09:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 04:23
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 10 June 2009 07:20
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 10 June 2009 16:21
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Wed, 10 June 2009 17:30
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 18:25
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		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 19:58
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		Re: Question for Christians By: Ryan3k on Wed, 10 June 2009 21:12
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 11 June 2009 07:28
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 11 June 2009 08:45
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 11 June 2009 09:07
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 11 June 2009 08:49
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 11 June 2009 09:18
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 11 June 2009 11:47
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 11 June 2009 12:23
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 11 June 2009 19:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 11 June 2009 23:29
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 05:56
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 07:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 11 June 2009 12:32
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		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Fri, 12 June 2009 07:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 08:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 13:57
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 14:09
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:57
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 14:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 15:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:08
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:16
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:33
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:06
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:12
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:55
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:58
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 18:56
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Sat, 13 June 2009 11:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:44
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 18:46
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 18:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 20:31
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 20:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Fri, 12 June 2009 23:15
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 23:41
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:20
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:38
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sat, 13 June 2009 18:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Sat, 13 June 2009 18:36
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Sat, 13 June 2009 19:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sat, 13 June 2009 21:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Sun, 14 June 2009 02:02
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 14 June 2009 08:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Sun, 14 June 2009 10:00
		Re: Question for Christians By: Ryan3k on Sun, 14 June 2009 14:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sun, 14 June 2009 19:03
		Re: Question for Christians By: Muad Dib15 on Sun, 14 June 2009 19:25
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Mon, 15 June 2009 00:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 15 June 2009 07:23
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Mon, 15 June 2009 09:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: Ryan3k on Sun, 14 June 2009 21:22
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 16 June 2009 16:49
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 17 June 2009 11:50
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Wed, 17 June 2009 13:03
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 June 2009 15:20
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 18 June 2009 05:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Thu, 18 June 2009 05:15
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 22 June 2009 13:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Mon, 22 June 2009 13:46
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Tue, 23 June 2009 05:39
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Tue, 23 June 2009 05:53

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